“I am sorry you feel that way.” Is an statement of validation, not an apology.
People get upset due to feelings not thoughts. Responding to their feelings (“you feel that way”) with a statement of your own feelings (“I’m sorry”) is acknowledgement and validation of them. Their feelings are true and real.
That usually defuses a situation really quick. How can someone fight you if you are agreeing with them.
The other part is, you most likely are sorry they feel the way they do. For if they didn’t feel upset they wouldn’t be making your life miserable, pushing your buttons, projecting upon you, etc...
It’s ok to have empathy for someone and still have boundaries. Saying your sorry for how they feel is not condoning their actions either. It is simply empathic validation.
In this particular instance W is acting on irrational emotions. She is not looking at the shed situation with a lens of logic and reason. Therefore attempting to reason with her is futile, it will be viewed as argumentative and end in - you never listen to me or some such.
She feels stressed and upset and wants to push back. She doesn’t want to face her consequences for her choices. So validate and empathize and go about your day. It’s not your job to rescue her nor fix her mess.
I feel sorry for her and I don’t even know her. I also hold her accountable for her choices and actions. One can do both.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
DS9, you've already gotten a lot of input on the storage situation but here's my take. Yes she "took it over" and you could take a hard line approach and tell her that it's her problem. But the storage did belong to both of you and contains items owned by each of you. And it seems pretty clear that there was a lot more in it than she realized and she didn't know what to do with it. She's reaching out to you for help, so help her. It's not going to kill you to be nice to her whether you want to recon or not. If you don't want any of it then tell her you don't but you'll help her clean it out, or offer to pay half of the costs of using a 3rd party to clear it out. Do it because it's the right thing to do, not because you have any expectations. This may be one of the last things you have to do "jointly" so might as well settle it as peacefully as possible.
Also I agree with Ovr, I am not a fan of saying you're sorry. "I am sorry you feel that way" sounds very dismissive rather than being validating, especially if a person uses it all the time as a standard response. A more validating approach would be "You sound angry about this, is that how you feel?" "Yes blah blah blah." "I see, I can understand why that would make you angry." Seek to understand her feelings and acknowledge them.
As always thanks for your feedback and support. I hear what you’re saying and certainly Food for thought and after reading your comments I actually felt guilt for not taking the shelves. But then I balanced that against all the things I’ve done for her post bd including paying for me that shed for months at about hundreds if not thousands of dollars after I’d moved my stuff out. I already took more than I wanted the other day, and stored her stuff in my place for a while ages ago when she was renoing too
I don’t think it was a cry for help knowing her. More like she didn’t want it after she moved all the stuff she’d been storing on it the last year. Or power and control.You see I was the guy during the M who when she called I came running - literally. I’d even reschedule booked client appointments to be the husband who placed his wife’s assistance and needs first. Classic ngs and I decided it needs to stop. She’s an opportunist and I learnt through this forum how to baby step my way out of that sucking vortex. Frankly i think her constant need for me to do things actually contributed to the low energy, negative and just tired stressed and anxious dude I became that she said at BD was some of her complaints about me.
I hear you about being nice but frankly I think I gotta stop doing that and just be cordial and business like and balanced with give and take. If it was a 180 for me to help then help then help some more then I’d be there but contuing to help then helping more would be perpetuating the same old narrative and I just gotta get out of that for my own good mate. I think it would’ve shocked her that I said no, which is probably why she pulled the stuff about parenting and reviewing her position on our relationship.
Hope that makes sense. Just wanted to do you the courtesy of explaining why I’m not going to take up your suggestion this time. Stick with me though and keep the wisdom coming my way please mate!
Cheers DS
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
I kinda agree with AS here - I wouldn't go out of my way and bend over backwards to take care of the situation. But It could be a kind "final gesture" kind of thing. However, I understand why you feel the way you do.
You did fine with the shed and conversing with W. A nice 180 by the way. Looks good on you.
Trying to understand where someone is emotionally is an excellent way to interact with people. To understand their desires and connect beyond words.
There is a problem in trying to understand W’s emotions - she can’t understand herself so how can you. However it is deeper than that. It is that “sucking vortex” you spoke of. You need to get a handle on your emotions before attempting to get a handle on W’s.
This only applies to W. I’m sure you can interact with others relatively easy. I look at your well thought out posts and see evidence of such.
The problem is W can still manipulate you, and push your buttons. A step towards healing is to take back your power. To control you. I know from experience that at first we don’t know how to do that. It takes time to find your strength again, to find compassion. The phrase “I’m sorry you feel that way” is compassionate and validating. It is so you do not get dragged into a blaming manipulative back and forth with her. NGS is going to take some time to let go of.
I am big proponent of compassion and hope. Your healing is first and foremost. Find and follow your beliefs. That way no matter what happens regarding W, M, R, D you followed what is most important to you. That is key. No external force will grant you peace; you find it internally.
Peace exists within your beliefs, convictions, and values. Do the inner work. Discover what you believe in. Strengthen those beliefs you want, alter and discard those you don’t. Makes these changes permanent and for you. Be the best version of you.
All the advice, everything you do, is for your healing. You are the most important person in this equation. There are some things and advice that will sound and feel counterintuitive. Perfectly normal. It will be counterintuitive right until it’s not. It takes time to find our understanding and solid footing again.
Your healing and journey, in a kind and compassionate manner, is for you and as a bonus gives you the best chance at a new R.
You have a son that is ten. There are many more joint events that will be upcoming. This is not the final interaction with her.
Take your focus off her and place it upon yourself. Find DS, the kind and compassion DS.
W doesn’t need you rescuing her (her wants are a different story). She needs you being compassionately indifferent. And so do you.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks again for your further thoughts, and the vote of confidence in the way I handled the storage unit saga. Last week when I went to the unit, XW had left our framed wedding photo collage right at the entrance as you walk in. I assumed she left it for me to take. I remember all those years ago arranging the photos to be printed, picking out the best ones, and choosing a stylish frame that I thought she'd like, to surprise her with.
I didn't take the photos she left behind. The story behind them and the memories of that happy day are securely locked away in the part of my heart where I store hurt, disappointment, betrayal and memories of things that were but will never be again. I'll need to process that one day.
When I came back to get the rest of my stuff the other day, the photos had been moved. I hope that they serve her as a fond memory of the man I was, of love, commitment and the promises I made after BD to not be the man she feared I would become.
Your words about compassion, hope, healing and beliefs I take on board and will use to bolster my journey to becoming indifferent when finally closing this chapter. You helped me become less fearful of her reactions and emotions. Many months ago, I wrote to XW when she expressed being anxious, and I told her if her anxiety has anything to do with how she feels about me, then I would be there to listen. She has not taken that up, but if she does, I will be there to listen.
About validation, I do see "I'm sorry you feel that way" as a form of expression of regret or empathy for something happening or a feeling, rather than personally being sorry for what you've done.
Anyway, GAL has been pretty good.
S and I are still doing lots of arts and crafts type activities. S has started a new school and is growing more and more mature each day. We visited SD on the weekend for some activities and dinner.
MIL aksed us to come round for lunch but we couldnt make it, so will plan that for another weekend
My fitness regime continues with a vengeance in my twice daily walks and home gym commitment. I'm going to join a cross fit class or similar as it gets boring doing this by yourself.
I've become a bit of a horticulturalist and am proud of my indoor and outdoor plant achievements.
I've reconnected through FB with a girl I dated in high school, and dated again a few years after high school. We share an interest in plants, ancient architecture and cultures, and a calm, drama free laid back attitude.
I've heard some horror stories where some members here have posted all about their fantastic lives and new partners on FB, and how that invariably has become a problem in their sitch. I'm radio silent on FB, apart form the fact that pre BD I never used to post anything anyway. Why change now.
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
I hear you on the need to process all that someday. Don’t worry it’s getting there. Small steps.
Nice to see you and son doing all kinds of activities together. That’s awesome! And he is maturing right before your eyes. Yes, lots of changes coming up for him. Pretty soon he’ll be asking to borrow the car. And gas money. And movie money. And snack money. LOL.
Good job on your fitness regime. I like the idea of joining a class; provides motivation and will keep boredom at bay.
I’m also a big fan of gentle and calm. A budding horticulturalist is a nice calming relaxing state of mind. Be proud of your plants and achievements. Two green thumbs up from me.
I’m not reading too much into what you said about reconnecting with girl from high school. I am guessing just friendly chatting and such.
A caution for you or awareness if caution seems to strong a word.
As indifference takes hold, your feelings for your spouse, or STBXW, become attenuated and stir less often. This creates a vacuum where once all the emotions about your spouse and feelings and anxiety once ran about.
Nature arbours a vacuum. Other feelings will seem larger than they really are, in an attempt to fill the void. This takes time to work through. Ride it out. Things do calm down again. After all they are just feelings; and feeling are fleeting.
However, feelings are very real. Infatuation, even a little bit, will seem soooo large during this time. It’s twofold - first the comparison to the void of indifference and your spouse hasn’t been paying any attention for sometime. We get a bit blindsided on two fronts. Hence the caution.
Indifference is a strange place. Harness the power of this place. Do your inner work; that processing for example. With far less feelings about one’s spouse, one can dig into themselves.
Find your beliefs and yourself. Indifference doesn’t last forever by the way. Or at least it didn’t for me. Your love for your spouse or ex-spouse does return. And if you’re healing, compassionate, kind, empathic, maybe even seeing some forgiveness - there is no pain. You’ll wake up one day and realize that you are in that place you so wanted to be in for so long. Healed and whole.
That of course is a bit of a journey. Processing and growing. It’s very much well worth it. It’s about you; and you are worth that effort.
Anyhow, just some awareness for you. I went through a stage of temptation. I didn’t act upon it. And looking back I was not ready to date, was still hurting too much.
Moving forward, small steps.
You’re doing fine.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Yeah, my S is sure growing up. He's already started asking me to buy things, which I usually do. Unfortunately one of the by-products of my XW's MLC or whatever it is she went through is erratic cost cutting. She'll blow thousands on a holiday or home improvements, then scrimp on buying him something, or the other kids. I've told S to come to me if he needs something, as he's complaining about XW's cheapskate attitude.
Yeah, the girl from high school is just friendly chatting - escapism too, as she is going through divorce as well.
With indifference, I often compare this to my ex partner before my wife. We were in an R for about 2.5 years. I remember being very indifferent when it ended, even to the extent that I hoped she repartnered very soon so her new partner could look after her (she was quite ill and I became like her carer).
I'll have to keep rereading what you say about this as it isn't quite sinking in yet, but I hear what yo're saying.
Anyway, XW was in touch yesterday with a friendly thank you text for some pre-agreed things I did for S's school. Surprised me, as I thought she'd still be fuming over the shelf saga and be no contact for weeks. Like you said, I just gotta do what's best for me without fear of her reaction or thought, and do those things in a calm, cordial, consistent, logical businesslike fashion.
Thanks again mate for checking in. Cheers DS
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
I recently was inspired by DnJ to write a poem on his thread, and threatened to write another one if I took inspiration.
I'm a little rusty as I last wrote substantive poetry in high school over 25 years ago, apart from the short poems of love I used to write for my XW. Maybe I'll take it up again for GAL
I hope this one inspires us to remember that whilst the world crashes around us, the centre of our world is not what we thought, despite what we once felt it to be...
The winds of change echoed overhead, Faint rustling in the trees. We had some disquiet about the wind, But misheard what it said.
As the wind slowly gathered pace, We held their hand more tightly. Signs of love emanated still, so we thought quite rightly. That our love for them, would conquer all - this wind is just a phase - a passing breeze, among the trees, and our tree will never fall.
So we walk the path we've walked before, Continuing arm in arm. The wind picks pace, we shield their face, never contemplating harm.
But trees with rotten cores do fall, And love does not shield the heart, Where in the moment of splitting wood, everything falls apart.
We turn to look at our true love, But our true love isn't there. A different path they've taken, whilst we were unaware.
The lightning struck whilst we had faith, In a love that seemed eternal. Vows of love mean nothing now, be damned to hell, eternal.
But as we fall unto our knees, Cursing at the wind, We fail to see, what seems to be, the forest for the trees.
See the forest lives, despite the tree, 'pon which we carved our love, The splintered remains of promised vows, crashed low from high above.
Yet as we labour with broken wood, Whilst our true love wanders free. We glimpse a truth eternal - Our forest is not the tree.
Cheers, DS
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
