Newlywed and in crisis

[LH19]

F,

I just read your first post and man I feel for you. This is supposed to be the best part of marriage and she pulls this on you. Is she in IC? If not it should be a requirement by you for reconciliation.

Good luck my friend!

[funbun]

Thanks LH,

I find it hard to detach sometimes because I always fall back into thinking what should have been: I should be happily married, laughing with W, had a good honeymoon, new family, new life. But here I am. Having only felt only five days of blissful married life and then everything broke down. It is what it is, I suppose.

I brought the both of us to an IC earlier on in my sitch (Dec 2019). We had two sessions, then we haven't gone since. I did mention to her earlier this month to go see the IC again and gave her the freedom to set up an appointment whenever she wants. She needs it more than I do since she said she have "problems" and felt "broken". She expressed her willingness to go at the time.

It's been three weeks since then and she hasn't gone to the IC. I am concerned, however I will not press the issue. It's her problem, not mine. I should focus on myself at the moment.

[ovrrnbw]

That's all normal funbun.

Like you said, I wouldn't even mention the IC. Your W will go only if and when she wants to. Plus there are a ton of IC/MC's out there that aren't worth a hoot in my opinion. I'm not sure which part of the world you are in, that may make a difference.

[AlisonUK]

Thanks LH,

I find it hard to detach sometimes because I always fall back into thinking what should have been: I should be happily married, laughing with W, had a good honeymoon, new family, new life. But here I am. Having only felt only five days of blissful married life and then everything broke down. It is what it is, I suppose.

I brought the both of us to an IC earlier on in my sitch (Dec 2019). We had two sessions, then we haven't gone since. I did mention to her earlier this month to go see the IC again and gave her the freedom to set up an appointment whenever she wants. She needs it more than I do since she said she have "problems" and felt "broken". She expressed her willingness to go at the time.

It's been three weeks since then and she hasn't gone to the IC. I am concerned, however I will not press the issue. It's her problem, not mine. I should focus on myself at the moment.

This is hard. But I see some controlling tendencies in this and your other posts. You can have a heart change here. It isn't down to you to 'let' your W see your parents or not: whatever the state of your marriage, or otherwise, she has total freedom there, as do your parents.

Similarly, you might have an opinion on whether she or you need IC more but really, whatever is going on with her is none of your business. Could you use some IC at the moment? Do you have some personal development goals and targets that IC would support you with? If so, then make that appointment. If you don't perhaps detaching and focussing on yourself means coming up with those goals. Who do you want to be? Your wife isn't a child and if she decides IC will support her in her goals, she is as capable as you are of setting that up for yourself. To be a married woman in a mature and adult relationship she needs to be capable of that kind of self reflection and taking of responsibility - you deserve to have a partner like that rather than a child who needs to be 'brought' to counselling. And you can't get her there no matter what you do: all you can do is get out of the way and let life work on her and her do with that as she will.

I realise this is tricky for you as you seem to have good relations with your W's family and they also treat her like a child - perhaps with her co-operation. Perhaps they're going to try to advise her or cure her or pressure her or charm her into doing what they think is best. And perhaps because what they think is best (marriage with you) is also what you want, it is going to be hard for you to detach from them and not collude in their efforts. But for the health of yourself and any future relationship with your W, it is essential you back away from it all and treat her as the adult she is.

[SteveLW]

Thanks LH,

I find it hard to detach sometimes because I always fall back into thinking what should have been: I should be happily married, laughing with W, had a good honeymoon, new family, new life. But here I am. Having only felt only five days of blissful married life and then everything broke down. It is what it is, I suppose.

I brought the both of us to an IC earlier on in my sitch (Dec 2019). We had two sessions, then we haven't gone since. I did mention to her earlier this month to go see the IC again and gave her the freedom to set up an appointment whenever she wants. She needs it more than I do since she said she have "problems" and felt "broken". She expressed her willingness to go at the time.

It's been three weeks since then and she hasn't gone to the IC. I am concerned, however I will not press the issue. It's her problem, not mine. I should focus on myself at the moment.

One of the things that I realized during my sitch was something that I always have heard, but really started to understand is the old saying "Life's not fair."

And there are two ways to look at your sitch in the frame of "life's not fair". Yes the specific circumstances of your sitch are tough, no question. But would you rather she go along with the marriage, unhappy, for the next 20 years, and then pull the plug? I feel that was my sitch. I think my W started having doubts not too long after our wedding. I think she saw getting married as the destination instead of the beginning of a journey. For 20 years we had fits, starts and stops, problems, anger, resentment, passive-aggressiveness, strife because of these doubts, and her wrong idea of getting married, being married, and marriage in general. I think there was a limerance addiction she had and once we settled into the drudgery of married life, she started to regret her headlong rush to get married. About 9 months into our R she started making noise about wanting to get married. As if getting married were the prize, the goal, but she really didn't have a plan after that.

So as much as it would have hurt for her to pull the plug early on in the marriage, how much more pain and agony did I endure because she waited 20 years to finally throw in the towel? When we had a child, and were heavily invested in each other's lives in all the ways 2 people that are together for 2 decades are. You talk about being attached to her family, imagine knowing them for 22 years?? Now let's juxtapose my sitch with yours. Imagine that you pull the plug yourself, decide to move on, follow through on D, and start dating. Meet a gorgeous new woman, date for a couple of years, get married, have kids and spend the next 2 decades in a healthy, happy marriage. Which one of the two guys, you or me, would you want to be?

So while right now you have an attitude of "why me"? In 20 years you may turnaround and realize what a gift she has given you! That being married to someone who doesn't want to be married for 2 decades would be a lot of pain, frustration, anger, and turmoil. That someone in my sitch 2 years ago would have jumped at the opportunity to have had their WAW/WW that apparently never wanted to be married to them to have 5 days in pulled the plug so that they could have moved on, while young, to a happier life. So while you are in tremendous pain, it is similar to removing a bandaid. Would you want someone, 5 days in, to start slowly pulling that bandaid and prolong the pain for 20 years? Or to have someone 5 days in, just rip it off and have it over with quickly?

Just thought I would share that perspective in light of your latest post.

I'll pray for you man, that you may find inner-peace no matter the outcome of your MR.

[AnotherStander]

I can't help but feel conflicted over this. On one hand, I know detachment is the best move right now. On the other, I do not want to disappoint / betray my in laws. Especially when they have given me their support. So I need advice on a few matters:

As I mentioned, they have invited me to several upcoming family events and now have to turn them down. What is the best way to do this? I care about them and I do not want to appear cold or harsh. Should I be honest and explain to tell them that I am DB-ing?

Don't say anything to them about DB'ing. Just tell them that you love them and appreciate their kind gestures, but given the situation between W and you right now that you feel it's inappropriate for you to continue going to these events for now, but you are hopeful that things will be better in the future. Tell them you and W both need space to think about things. If they continue to push you then just state that you've already made your decision and you hope that they respect and honor that in this difficult time.

This is a bit more specific - W's niece has a birthday this weekend. I plan to decline the invite but I'll am planning to buy the niece a present. Maybe I'll just pass the present to my in laws. Is this an acceptable move? Or does it still look like pursuit and pressuring to W?

As the others said, pass the gift along.

W's parents are religious people and they view this as a spiritual problem (i.e. something is wrong with W, an evil spirit is possessing her, something along those lines). I don't really buy into these things as I personally think it's something psychological.

A religious person describing it as a spiritual problem is frankly not a lot different than a doctor describing is as a psychological problem though. It's just two different ways to describe the same ailment.

They have been hiring people to give "spiritual treatment" to W. These treatments are harmless, but I think it is giving pressure to W. I wonder if there are vets here that had a similar thing, and what is their advice on it.

Let them do what they are going to do. The pressure is from them, not you. And it's likely to drive her farther away from them. STAY OUT OF IT. Don't offer advice to her or to them, just let them do what they are going to do. You should remain completely neutral on the matter.

W has expressed that she would want to still be able to see my parents. Should I let her?

Tell her she is welcome to communicate with them, but you don't want her joining in any joint activities with you and your parents. No parties or family get-togethers. Tell your parents as well, that you have no objections to them continuing to communicate with her but do not talk to her about the M or your R at all. And also ask them not to invite her to any family functions for now. Similar to the talk with your in-laws, you can explain that you hope this is temporary but you feel it's necessary given the situation and will help both you and your W to think about things with better clarity.

I also mentioned, W and I worked at the same place. She occasionally buys me food. Should I ask her to stop? I believe she is buying it for personal reasons i.e. doing it as a good deed to counteract her "sins".

No that's fine. If she wants to pursue you, do favors of whatever, let it happen. Just don't have any expectations that it means anything, because it's probably just "pity" like you suspect.

[Ready2Change]

W just texted, some of her things are still here at my place: "Can you help me bring my sandals tomorrow. Thank you"

I would box up EVERYTHING that is hers at your place and give her the box tomorrow.

Text her back:

H"Yes."

[funbun]

Thank you everyone. Sincerely. Your words help bring perspective and focus into my life. I needed it, as I tend to lose focus and start doubting myself over time.

Could you use some IC at the moment? Do you have some personal development goals and targets that IC would support you with? If so, then make that appointment. If you don't perhaps detaching and focussing on yourself means coming up with those goals. Who do you want to be? Your wife isn't a child and if she decides IC will support her in her goals, she is as capable as you are of setting that up for yourself. To be a married woman in a mature and adult relationship she needs to be capable of that kind of self reflection and taking of responsibility - you deserve to have a partner like that rather than a child who needs to be 'brought' to counselling. And you can't get her there no matter what you do: all you can do is get out of the way and let life work on her and her do with that as she will.

I went to the IC yesterday. We talked about a lot of things: letting go, my anxious attachment style, W's past withdrawal from R, and the unfairness of life. He commended on my ability to be reflective and for having processed so much. That felt nice, to know that I did something right.

One of the things that IC said that resonated with me was "You should trust your W to have the capacity to handle all of this on her own". I had the notion that being the husband, the man of the house, I have to take responsibility over W (culturally too, that is expected here in my country). I learned that some problems are not mine to "own". I can help or offer advice to an extent, but not in a way that jeopardizes my well-being.

And there are two ways to look at your sitch in the frame of "life's not fair". Yes the specific circumstances of your sitch are tough, no question. But would you rather she go along with the marriage, unhappy, for the next 20 years, and then pull the plug? I feel that was my sitch. I think my W started having doubts not too long after our wedding. I think she saw getting married as the destination instead of the beginning of a journey. For 20 years we had fits, starts and stops, problems, anger, resentment, passive-aggressiveness, strife because of these doubts, and her wrong idea of getting married, being married, and marriage in general. I think there was a limerance addiction she had and once we settled into the drudgery of married life, she started to regret her headlong rush to get married. About 9 months into our R she started making noise about wanting to get married. As if getting married were the prize, the goal, but she really didn't have a plan after that.

So as much as it would have hurt for her to pull the plug early on in the marriage, how much more pain and agony did I endure because she waited 20 years to finally throw in the towel? When we had a child, and were heavily invested in each other's lives in all the ways 2 people that are together for 2 decades are. You talk about being attached to her family, imagine knowing them for 22 years?? Now let's juxtapose my sitch with yours. Imagine that you pull the plug yourself, decide to move on, follow through on D, and start dating. Meet a gorgeous new woman, date for a couple of years, get married, have kids and spend the next 2 decades in a healthy, happy marriage. Which one of the two guys, you or me, would you want to be?

So while right now you have an attitude of "why me"? In 20 years you may turnaround and realize what a gift she has given you! That being married to someone who doesn't want to be married for 2 decades would be a lot of pain, frustration, anger, and turmoil. That someone in my sitch 2 years ago would have jumped at the opportunity to have had their WAW/WW that apparently never wanted to be married to them to have 5 days in pulled the plug so that they could have moved on, while young, to a happier life. So while you are in tremendous pain, it is similar to removing a bandaid. Would you want someone, 5 days in, to start slowly pulling that bandaid and prolong the pain for 20 years? Or to have someone 5 days in, just rip it off and have it over with quickly?.

Steve, these are wise words coming from experience and hardship. I truly value what you have said here, it helped, thank you for this. I took the time to read your first thread, I can't imagine the frustration you went through all those years and I agree with you, I do not want that for myself.

You used the word "limerance" here. I didn't know what it meant, I looked it up. It sounded like what I am having (though not to the extent your wife did). I have been wondering why have I stayed in this R for so long even though there were red flags with W: the intimacy issues, love not being reciprocated, W's distancer behaviour. I thought about what broken part of me has prevented me from seeing this and breaking off the R earlier on before getting M. What broken part of me has kept me going even though this R is unfulfilling. It seems like I was living in a world of fantasy. That I loved the idea of W. That I believed too much in W being the one for me. I was in love with her best qualities too much that I ignored or justified the bad ones. I am going to work on this going forward.

[AlisonUK]

One of the things that IC said that resonated with me was "You should trust your W to have the capacity to handle all of this on her own". I had the notion that being the husband, the man of the house, I have to take responsibility over W (culturally too, that is expected here in my country). I learned that some problems are not mine to "own". I can help or offer advice to an extent, but not in a way that jeopardizes my well-being.

I think it's really helpful that you're having these type of conversations, and that you can be reflective on what about the way you've been taught or the ideas you've picked up along the way needs to be reframed or rejected, and what you can keep and take with you into the future. I think we all have to do this, no matter what culture we've been brought up in. I think it is very possible for marriages where there is a 'man is the head of the household' model to thrive, for both parties to feel respected and equal and for there to be no co-dependency. I think for that to work, the woman especially needs to have reflected on it carefully, understand what she wants and commit to it. Perhaps your wife just didn't do that. Perhaps she's having trouble with the transition of being led by her parents and now, being led by you - and this is why the trouble started so soon after marriage, when the moment of that transition was so clear.

I think all of us come into marriage with unexamined assumptions about what marriage actually is. I know I did - the nature of the culture might be slightly different but the transition feels similar to me: this really isn't what you expected and it probably isn't what she expected either and you're both having problems.

I think your counsellor is right. It sounds like your wife lacks maturity which makes a marriage impossible. She won't get maturity by delegating her growth to either her husband or her parents. And, I'm sorry to say, if you step back and let her handle it on her own - as your counsellor advised you - then her parents are likely to step in and carry on babying her. There's not a thing you can do about that and it is horrible. I think you should just package up her things and drop them off with her, continue to be polite to her at work, let her know you won't stand in the way of a divorce if she wants one, and distance yourself from her parents.

[funbun]

I think all of us come into marriage with unexamined assumptions about what marriage actually is. I know I did - the nature of the culture might be slightly different but the transition feels similar to me: this really isn't what you expected and it probably isn't what she expected either and you're both having problems.

I think your counsellor is right. It sounds like your wife lacks maturity which makes a marriage impossible. She won't get maturity by delegating her growth to either her husband or her parents. And, I'm sorry to say, if you step back and let her handle it on her own - as your counsellor advised you - then her parents are likely to step in and carry on babying her. There's not a thing you can do about that and it is horrible. I think you should just package up her things and drop them off with her, continue to be polite to her at work, let her know you won't stand in the way of a divorce if she wants one, and distance yourself from her parents.

I agree with you Alison. It's hard to pinpoint what exactly went wrong with W that caused her to breakdown and then BD. If I were to put my money on it, it would be on the fact that she's is having difficulty with the transition into married life. She plunged into depression because she lost her old life and is afraid of this married life, for whatever reason. Now she is using me, vilifying me, in order to justify getting out of this two months old marriage. I didn't even get the chance to properly show her what this married life could be like. I had only four days. A shame. Though some would argue it wouldn't make a difference even if I had that chance.

From my understanding, she is not a WW nor a WAW. As the others have advised, the only good move here is to distance, let her sort out her s***, I take care of myself, and make sure the road back home is smooth.