When a spouse is half in, half out....pushing them to choose will 99.99999% result in them picking out.
I am with your friend. I don't believe she is really out. I think she was pushed and gave that answer. I agree with not scheduling another MC session. I would suggest you remain patient and see if she follows through on "being out". I think if you remove all pressure and pursuit she will change her mind.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Just because she’s out doesn’t mean she’s gonna run out and get a divorce.
So Steve, SB should give it another 4 years?
He should give it until HE is ready to be divorced, with no emotional baggage, and can move on healthy and happy. He certainly shouldn't go file just to have an effect on her.
I don't get into time with these sitches. Some sitches should be resolved by the LBS saying "SEE YA" in 5 minutes. Some could take 5 years. Time is meaningless to me in these things. But clearly he is not ready to move on, and until he is....he shouldn't. I believe that to my core even if its been 40 years.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I just think now we are getting into the definition of insanity with what’s going on here.
Maybe. Then again, having been through it twice now I can say that these sitches are pretty insane all on their own.
If Scott comes back and says "I am ready to move on" then my advice will change to reflect that. Until then, from where I sit, 4 years in he is still trying to save this thing. He has the patience of Job (not the forum moderator!).
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others.
I've never read that definition before. I thought it was something different. I continued to read up on it and though there are some things that seem to rhyme with narcissism, I'm not sure that's a perfect fit. She actually seems to have a very low self-esteem and a low sense of self-worth. She struggles with that, which is something newer. I think it started when we had our daughter. When my wife had a hysterectomy because of an emergency situation during the last pregnancy and then quit her job to stay at home with the kids' things started to go wrong.
I was not making enough money for us to live on and I was consistently telling her to watch her spending. I was working long hours and was so worn out when I got home that I didn't do much at all around the house. The house was always a mess and I know I didn't help and I didn't compliment her because my expectations were that she should have time to get everything done. That all took a toll and we were contemptuous with one another, full of criticism and defensiveness.
I remember one of her friends in October of 2015 saying that I treated her like a 1950's housewife and she really grabbed on to that and beat me up with that for a time. That is the same time the EA get started. We had our first dance with disillusionment in April when we were reading a book on relationships together and it talked about EA's and I realized that her friendship was more than a friendship.
We went on our ten year anniversary and 2 months later as I had been expressing concerns and while on our trip he was texting her at 2 am in the morning - not common behavior for a friend. On that trip, we had a huge fight. She told me all the things I was doing wrong and how if I didn't change she was going to divorce me. I told her that I would stay married to her no matter what even if it meant we were only together for the kids and had no relationship. She used that against me for about a year.
That's when I got started making changes. And ever since that June of 2016 I've been working to be a better husband. The guys wife was reaching out to me to ask me how we could stop the EA. She kicked her husband out. His mom got involved to try and end it. They continued to say it wasn't happening. I confronted her with evidence, she said we were making it into something it wasn't. All of her friends disassociated from her because the didn't want to be involved and they took the side of his spouse and me. Then when his wife caught them on video in the back seat of my car (tinted windows, so hard to know exactly what was happening), it finally ended in January of 2017. From 9/2016 through 11/2017 we were in counseling until she dropped a bomb or two during that time but the final bomb drop occurred in counseling in November of '17.
She didn't follow through. That was probably the 2nd or 3rd time. In January of 2018 she sat me down and dropped the bomb again. I begged for 6 months to work on our marriage. She said I'll give you three. We got a new MC and when April came, she wasn't ready to end it yet. From there she made occasional threats but didn't use the D word. In June of 2018 she said she needed a separation. I tried to work with her on figuring it out but for some reason she didn't follow through. As of September 2018 things we really dark as we started Retrouvaille but Retrouvaille was a huge blessing and really turned things around. We opened dialogue and started communicating better, we were talking, and getting along and really seeing one another for the first time in years. It was a renewal.
Through the first half of 2019 we stayed committed to counseling and Retrouvaille until May when marriage counseling got canceled and didn't get rescheduled. We also missed Retrouvaille monthly meetings through the summer. Her dad was suffering health problems, the kids became especially needy, I began to suffer my own work MLC, and her work began to take over her life. By August of 2019 I knew we were on a bad path and I scheduled us back in marriage counseling, but that first session back didn't go very well. It seemed to make things worse. Then we had a couple things happen over a small stretch of time and she bomb dropped me again with a separation in September of 2019.
Its been an all out battle since. No sex, no intimacy, continued marriage counseling with the constant threat of divorce. Her being unwilling to work on the marriage but also not ready to leave.
Four weeks ago I suffered through a bit of a tough stretch and I thought she was going to give another bomb drop two weeks ago but she held off. We had two pretty good weeks from there with some small increased intimacy, just a hug or two, spent more time together, and things seemed to be looking up, until yesterday.
2/6/2020 - Divorce bomb drop again. She went home, balled her eyes out from what I can tell, took off her wedding ring. I had a scheduled happy hour so we didn't talk last night. I kind of wanted to wait until I spoke with my divorce busting coach anyhow. So that's my next step. I spoke with three trusted friends and they all said I need to call this thing. I have one divorced friend who said keep fighting. I was doing better yesterday than today. My chest feels like it is going to cave in.
So I spoke with my coach and was told that I handled the situation yesterday well. After the meeting, I gave her a hug and a kiss on the forehead. He thought the gentleness was good in light of what I went through.
Coach said that the question, whether she was in or out was a bad question. A better question would have been "on a scale of one to ten how in are you?" And then to follow up with if you are a 2 how can we move you to a 3. In or out implies 10 or 0 and backs her in a corner. If someone is scared and cornered they are going to lash out as she did.
So I'm going to find time to let her know that I think she was treated unfairly in our meeting. She was backed into a corner and at that moment she made the only choice she could and that it was hard to watch that happen.
Coach said to continue to treat me right. Show myself that I have value by taking care of me. Also said that when she brings up the past I need to find the truth in what she says, learn from it to become a better version of myself, to keep my heart open to feedback, and to tell her that I hate that I treated her that way when she brings up specific incidences if that's how I feel. Be authentic.
I need to work on empathy in the face of hostility, I need to be vulnerable in those moments and be ready for her to hurt me. To help myself deal with hurt (if she hurts me) I need to give myself strength by taking care of me -- to let myself know that I am valuable and have worth.
Scotty B I wish we could sit down and have a beer because we have lived the same 4 years. It really all comes down to it becoming a perfect storm. Years of taking her for granite, low self esteem, EA, hormones/midlife transition, childhood issues and the being unable to forgive and it’s hello divorce busting website here we come.
You don’t have to give up. The only thing that means is not filing. Time will tell if she goes through with it. Time and space are the only thing that turn these things around long term.
I'm going to work to be a good man. I'm not going to work to be perfect, I'm going to make mistakes, I'm going to work to improve from them and even that won't be perfect.
My marriage may end, and maybe it should, or maybe it won't, but I'm just going to try and be the man I think I should be. That's what I feel called to do. I hope to preserve my dignity through it. Be an example for my kids, get stronger as a person, feel more. Those are all goals.
To be clear Steve, I'm not giving up, and I'm not fighting either. I'm just going to try to be.
LH, I agree with everything you wrote.
I just wish I could figure out how to fall asleep and stay asleep till my alarm goes off. That would make my life amazing! There is nothing worse the going to be and laying there awake and then finally falling asleep to wake up again at 4am and lay there for another 3 hours. If I could figure out a good nights sleep I would be in great shape.
