OK, well first suggestion is don't look at it as a date. Think of it more as two friends going out to grab a bite to eat. NO R TALKS!!!! If she initiates it then fine, let her talk but you just listen. Use this as an opportunity to hone your listening and validating skills. If she asks you questions then be brief and immediately turn it back to her. "How was your day?" "It was great, how did yours go?" When she talks, make eye contact. Show interest. Nod. Ask how it made her feel.
I'll warn you right now that validation feels fake to most guys. We are programmed to think communication is us telling someone else something. Don't fall into that trap. If you encourage her to talk, and she does so, and you listen and validate, then even if you hardly talk at all she will leave thinking "wow, he really understands me, who is this guy?" When I started validating friends and coworkers and women on first dates I hardly said anything at all, yet I was constantly complimented for "being a great communicator". Validating is very powerful.
My only concern with that strategy is some recent heavy accusations I was seeing someone else due to my GAL'ing.
That would blow the hinges off I have no doubt.
Meh. This is fear talking. This is the post of a beta. An alpha would be all "I ain't taking the crumbs you're dropping from your table!"
And her thinking you are moving on is a good thing. This is the goal of DBing!! When she asks you about your seeing someone you say definitively, but not excessively "No, I'm not seeing anyone. I'm focusing on myself and being happy on my own."
If she thinks that is a lie, so be it.
Drop fear. Do not settle. Become a man only a fool would let go. And that isn't being readily available everytime she's ready to throw you bone.
If cancelling is to hardcore, then postpone. "I need to take a raincheck on dinner, really busy right now. I'll contact you next week to schedule something."
My guess, you're so excited she's willing go to dinner you can't fathom not doing it. I'm telling you that you'll gain more of her respect by cancelling or postponing and then asking her to go on your terms.
Last edited by Steve85; 02/20/2002:25 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
By the way I do agree with Steve that you should just not go at all. My suggestions fall under the "if you DO go, then do this" category. Right now you can't "nice" her back. You also can't "mean" her back. You can't get her back at all, not until SHE has a change of heart. Which if it comes at all, will be WAY down the road. The best thing you can do to help things along right now is.... nothing. Time and space. Leave her alone. Keep contact to the bare essentials. Be a ghost. Not cold, rude and indifferent, just... not there.
By the way I do agree with Steve that you should just not go at all. My suggestions fall under "if you DO go, then do this" category. Right now you can't "nice" her back. You also can't "mean" her back. You can't get her back at all, not until SHE has a change of heart. Which if it comes at all, will be WAY down the road.
And will be impossible to miss.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
As always appreciate the advice. Need some more now.
The dinner was the kind of thing not easily changeable. Steve, I was surprised and eager to go, and given the circumstances we went. IMO the dinner went well and had a first date vibe. Things got awkward afterwards, but overall felt good. I expected the ending and wall to kick back up, so was prepared.
Trying to figure out where I go from here. Half a year into this. Communication decent. Breadcrumbs. No OM to best of my knowledge and my gut feeling. Up and down from W as expected. Recently, W accused me of having another woman. W was acting as if I should be talking to her more and possibly asking her on dates was an impression I got.
I am more recently feeling confidence, figuring out how to command respect and that I will be OK either way. I still prefer to Recon with my W, but I also question this as everyone does. I know she still doesn't fully respect or trust me. I don't understand the trust issue other than the nature of being separated.
I guess my question is how to play this out. My impression is that W thinks we start dating again at some point. I really can't tell, but I am considering asking her to do something. Or just keep working on myself. I guess there is no set rule as long as I don't have expectations.
I always hear to put energy into myself instead of WAW, but I also feel someone has to make a move at some point. Or maybe not and wait for the obvious sign. Just not sure where asking the W to do things fits in if at all.
As always appreciate the advice. Need some more now.
The dinner was the kind of thing not easily changeable. Steve, I was surprised and eager to go, and given the circumstances we went. IMO the dinner went well and had a first date vibe. Things got awkward afterwards, but overall felt good. I expected the ending and wall to kick back up, so was prepared.
Trying to figure out where I go from here. Half a year into this. Communication decent. Breadcrumbs. No OM to best of my knowledge and my gut feeling. Up and down from W as expected. Recently, W accused me of having another woman. W was acting as if I should be talking to her more and possibly asking her on dates was an impression I got.
I am more recently feeling confidence, figuring out how to command respect and that I will be OK either way. I still prefer to Recon with my W, but I also question this as everyone does. I know she still doesn't fully respect or trust me. I don't understand the trust issue other than the nature of being separated.
I guess my question is how to play this out. My impression is that W thinks we start dating again at some point. I really can't tell, but I am considering asking her to do something. Or just keep working on myself. I guess there is no set rule as long as I don't have expectations.
I always hear to put energy into myself instead of WAW, but I also feel someone has to make a move at some point. Or maybe not and wait for the obvious sign. Just not sure where asking the W to do things fits in if at all.
First on this: "W accused me of having another woman. W was acting as if I should be talking to her more and possibly asking her on dates was an impression I got. " Typical WAW tactic. If you were trying to talk to her more and asking her out (remember, she asked you out this time, she had been saying no to your requests) she'd accuse you of smothering her. You cannot win with a WAW spouse. Darned if you do, darned if you don't. The fact is that she doesn't feel that way about you and she will find an excuse no matter what you do.
"I guess my question is how to play this out. My impression is that W thinks we start dating again at some point. I really can't tell, but I am considering asking her to do something. Or just keep working on myself. I guess there is no set rule as long as I don't have expectations.
I always hear to put energy into myself instead of WAW, but I also feel someone has to make a move at some point. Or maybe not and wait for the obvious sign. Just not sure where asking the W to do things fits in if at all."
I still see you struggling against DBing. Lots of hem-hawing and contradiction. Continue to GAL. Make GAL your priority! Next time she asks to go to dinner, the worst thing you can do is jump on it again. "Sorry, busy that night. Can we take a rain check? Next time we talk we can nail down a date." You are so excited about a breadcrumb that you are sucking it down before it hits the floor! Keep self-improving. You want to 180 on your past poor behavior so whenever you interact with her she sees those changes. (REMEMBER, never point out your improvements!!) and then make sure you are detached. Anything she says or does should roll off your back like water off of a duck.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
If you don't take the breadcrumb, I assure you, your WAW will use that as "evidence" you are not committed to the MR. You will need to build up the ability to deal emotionally with this tactic.
Part of detaching is realizing this is hogwash logic:
IF... "I turn down this date request"... THEN... "W will think I don't want to R"... What?!?! Think about how absurd that is.
Define your own logic. You simply cannot live as if someone is hyper-analyzing your every move. That is not a recipe for a healthy relationship.
Your situation may not end up in R. Some do, some don't. I'm sure you have the same fear everybody has when they come here... if my situation does not end up in R, what will I regret? Will I regret that I DB'ed? Especially if my WAW points to it as the "cause"?
It is really hard to struggle with that question. Personally I think it is one of the most important questions to wrestle with while DB'ing. How do you want to make decisions NOW such that, down the road, regardless of where your life has gone, regardless of what other people think (including those closest to you), you can look back and feel good about the decisions you made?
Hello DB...haven't posted since COVID. Primarily because when I start to write down my status I find it hard to explain. I guess this is the nature of limbo. I check in here daily as I find some therapy and bits of good advice. Also follow other stories.
Recently passed a year since BD. Not a day has passed I don't think about my sitch or W. We have done some work around the house that led to a little fun and intimacy, which was good. Still firmly in limbo with no real idea when that would end.
W mentionned once that she was frustrated we hadn't been able to date as if due to COVID. I thought that was a little strange. A few weeks later I asked her to dinner and she was then hesitant. Something legitimate came up that day and she asked if we could do that another time. I haven't asked again, but I always think about it.
Line up the 2x4, but kinda where I am at. I am really not sure what I want to do anymore. Everything we have is still shared and kids. I have hope, but I also feel the reality of the situation more these days.
Not sure if I could ever file to be honest. W is not being hateful and I know she really doesn't want to break up the family. However, I cannot go on like this forever either.
greenman, what if you set a date? You just hit 1 year since BD. So what if you set a date of one more BD anniversary. If things aren't improved, if she isn't fully committed back to the marriage in one year then you will go file? That would give you something to work towards. You could DB your butt off between then and now and see how it goes.
As far as:
"W mentionned once that she was frustrated we hadn't been able to date as if due to COVID. I thought that was a little strange. A few weeks later I asked her to dinner and she was then hesitant. Something legitimate came up that day and she asked if we could do that another time. I haven't asked again, but I always think about it."
Did she say it as in you and her going on a date? Or was this said in a way that she could have meant "I am frustrated that I haven't been able to get out and date other people due to COVID?" We often, as LBSs, hear what we want to hear. But I find it hard to believe that she said that meaning you and her, and then hedged and eventually bailed on an actual date with you.
As far as a 2x4, I don't really have one. I would remind you that when you don't know what to do that doing nothing IS doing something. Your sitch hasn't progressed. But it sounds like it hasn't regressed any either. We all hate limbo, it is terrible and difficult. But ask people whose spouses rushed into leaving and/or filing for D and they'd tell you that they'd give anything to be back in limbo, IHS. It is a "grass is greener" thing. So just keep focusing on you, being the best you can be. Make sure you are GAL, 180ing and continuing to work on detachment. GIve yourself and end date. And then work towards that between now and then.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
