The W responded a few mins ago with: "Telling her she "making your depression worse" and telling her we will go to court over it is only increasing her anxiety. You cannot put those things on a 15 year old. She is not responsible for your depression and making her feel that way is cruel. She told me she wants to spend time with you when she is ready. Your forcing he is making things worse.I know its hard for you. The emotional damage being done is hard for me. This is not about us.Its about them and and I will do everything in my power to be there to support and listen to them I will not orce them. We have agreed on that and now you want to force it. I am done with this conversation"
Absolutely nothing about this message say anything else other than concerned mother of your children. Every single thing she said is right. You cannot emotionally manipulate your children to get what you want. You are the adult. You are the parent.
The court is going to ask if you and W actually tried to enforce the visitation schedule you planned between yourselves with out lawyers and a judge first. I strongly, strongly suggest you have a conversation, and for documentation purposes probably via email regarding the visitation schedule. I've said it, others have said it. You guys made a schedule you have to both be willing to stick to it, and enforce it, even if the kids hem and haw over it. Your W will not help you to enforce this if you continue to turn this into a pissing contest or make it about youe needs with your kids. This isn't about you. Don't forget those words.
That being said. You can't let them just choose to always be by mom because it's easier than fighting, or because you want to appease some one in that other household, but you do need to start really thinking about when is an appropriate time to acquiesce to the requests to stay by mom and when it's time to ask W to be a united front. Like this move. I do understand them wanting to be in the new place this weekend to settle in instead of being shuttled by you and then back to an unpacked disaster to start the school week. But things like that are easily over come. You just trade weekends. So you get two in a row or however you guys work it out. Maybe 4 days in a row in the future instead. The options here aren't all or none, and both you and W need to stop thinking like that or you're going to waste an ever loving crap ton of money on lawyers. You both need to be firm with the kids TOGETHER, and flexible TOGETHER, or this is never going to work. And your kids aren't babies. If you two don't sit down and figure this out soon you'll be fighting about this until you have grandkids coming around.
[quote=firemann] You guys made a schedule you have to both be willing to stick to it, and enforce it, even if the kids hem and haw over it. Your W will not help you to enforce this if you continue to turn this into a pissing contest or make it about youe needs with your kids. This isn't about you. Don't forget those words.
That's just it. I don't feel like she's enforcing it, and at the end of the day, she's letting the kids do whatever they please. I overburdened my daughter with my feelings, I get that...but what more can I do to get my kids over here to spend some nights?
Just be the rcok. Be happy being alone. I can do this - but I don't feel like it's going to change anything with my kids and I, guys
Hey firemann ~ I don't want to pile on you. I miss the h3ll out of my kids too. I've been taking a co-parenting class. It's not a class where both parents go, it's a class to learn how to maximize your chances of a parenting relationship that accomplishes one primary goal:
The problem is, if you continue to put the burden of your emotions on your children and guilt them, they won’t want to see you and at their age children can decide who they want to live with. You need to be the dad that they choose because you are a good loving father, a rock and a strong parent. Not because they feel bad dad is depressed
Yep.....and the only way they are going to want to spend time with you is if you are happy, positive, fun, and do things with them that make them look forward to being with you.
Every Sunday when my Xw drops off our daughters one of the first things out of their mouth is "Dad, what are we going to do today???"
G is accurate......they are old enough to make their own decisions.
My buddy has a 14 yr old daughter that has decided she wants to live with him full time instead of her mom. He has taken his XW back to court to get his daughter full time and to have his CS reduced. Why? Because that is what his daughter wanted and the XW would not agree to it.
That's just it. I don't feel like she's enforcing it, and at the end of the day, she's letting the kids do whatever they please. I overburdened my daughter with my feelings, I get that...but what more can I do to get my kids over here to spend some nights?
Just be the rcok. Be happy being alone. I can do this - but I don't feel like it's going to change anything with my kids and I, guys
Apologize. And not a back handed apology. A real apology to both your kids, and W. Tell them you've seen the error in your ways and will be working with your IC on emotionally burdening your kids. Then have a conversation with W. Tell her that you understand why she doesn't want to force it and you acknowledge that you haven't been super dad. That you have work to do and you're ready to put that work in. Then ask her what does she need to see from you before she can feel confident in telling the kids they don't get to run the show on visitation, that you and her run the show.
W regardless of how this marriage fell apart seems to be pretty level headed when it comes to the kids. If you could actually make it about the kids. And face time with the kids. And quality time with the kids. And not about your needs. Your wants. You winning. I'm sure she'd work with you. But this involves you being the bigger person even when you don't feel like it or feel like W deserves it. You may have to do some sh*t eating to reach your goal here. If you have any questions about sacrificing your ego to do so I suggest you look at the dog pile of comments above as to why no one cares about your ego when it comes to your kids.
Last, kids are kids, and are fickle by nature. And my god, teens and tweens, holy h3ll, there isn't even a word for how volatile their emotions are. If you read the book and you've seen people like Steve85 talk about how DBing has helped change their relationship with their teens I think you need to maybe look into applying the same principals there. Find another board like this one about parenting through an S/D when you maybe weren't the best dad in the world all the time. There are boards for everything these days. You need to own ALL your mistakes with these kids, not just the recent ones. You need to lower your expectations of your children. They are not required to love and like you they way you are to love and like them. Unchien's suggestion of co-parenting classes is top notch. I still strongly suggest family therapy with just you and the kids. Maybe just you and D first and S will follow as he seems to. You really really really need to let go of the idea that the relationship with your children is something that is just supposed to exist with out any work. They aren't babies. Their needs aren't food, touch, stimulation, and medical care. At this age it's like a real relationship that needs development and work. And you are the parent, it's not their job to cultivate this relationship. It's yours. It's always going to be yours. Even when they are in their 30s.
Thank you guys. I will apologize and no longer burden my kids. I will be the positive rock that's good being solo and not add to an already stressful situation. I am grateful for your words and I will mentally chew on them today.
Thank you guys. I will apologize and no longer burden my kids. I will be the positive rock that's good being solo and not add to an already stressful situation. I am grateful for your words and I will mentally chew on them today.
Hi firemann, being able to accept your wife's message was pretty level-headed and apologize to her is huge! This shows you're trying to understand and to be a better father. That's rather incredible.
I'd suggest being specific about what you apologize for (not "for everything") and do it in-person or over the phone when the children aren't around. You want to preserve your integrity and rights.
This is some hard doodoo.
Parenting a teenage daughter is challenging--giving them a choice of households doesn't make it any easier. I have to be judicious about when I apply the stick vs. the carrot, which rules to enforce and let go. My ex allows unlimited screen time. A mom I know in a similar situation sent him angry messages, then limited her kids to zero screen-time in response since they get plenty at their dads'. Her kids decided to stay at their dads full-time--who also doesn't enforce homework. I limit screen-time, but not as dramatically as some.
I get you have a needle to thread in that you need to push to get more time with them than you have now, but you also need to not push them so hard they're super uncomfortable. Your daughter's offer to spend days but not nights with you--provided that's more than you had before--that is and was progress.
Learning to live solo is hard. From our stories, we both seem to attract partners with ease. Being more stable and happy solo does seem to come across to my kids. I'm more resilient to small setbacks. I drink less. I'm rarely messaging others when I'm with them. I've never leaned on my kids for emotional support, although I've seen other single parents do that or say they do that under these circumstances. My teenage daughter is talking to me more. There was a period when mostly she gestured and gave one word responses. We talked out a disagreement this morning! We'll see who can stay single longest as we keep moving forward.
