The are only a few things I wanna touch on just because of your H's poor mental state and the ride you've been forced on with him.
First the alcoholism can be contributing heavily to the depression instead of vice versa. Alcohol is a depressant. If he can't get sober long enough to remember what good emotions feel like it's a really crappy downward spiral.
Next the GI issues while they can be related to poor mental health can also be from the heavy drinking taking a toll.
Just keep a close eye on that if you can. If not you may want to warn him and he can take it as he likes.
Next this:
Originally Posted by wooba
I don’t wanna go on the roller coaster ride, but I feel like I inadvertently go on because he says suicidal stuff and makes me worried. I’m trying to figure out how to deal with that.
I don't know what the deal is where you're at but you might wanna look into it. In the States we have the 51/50 option. In every state. He claims he's going to hurt himself you call the cops, the cops and an ambulance show up. They go on a 72 hour hold. Can't check themselves out. Here, and I say that because I don't know by you, I had to deal with this with official ex not my might be ex current H, and at first I was like you panic stricken and not wanting to upset him or make things worse. After very little digging I realized that I had 51/50 at my disposal. If he would threaten it I would say, you have a few choices here, don't say things you don't mean to scare me, I can call your mom the nurse and you can tell her what you just said to me in the state you're in (which was typically out of his mind drunk and high), or I can call the cops right now, and they'll be happy to escort you to the emergency mental health care you clearly need. He'd immediately back pedal, but I also knew it was an attention grab. If you're unsure, I'd play it safe for a little while.
Originally Posted by wooba
So we are supposed to still be married by end of April and go on this camping trip together with his colleagues while he’s giving me time to think about D??? Just crazy.
This....god this. Mental health, booze or not. All these crazy WAH/WH's have the same shtick. H keeps talking to me about this marathon and his trip and my trip and then after, like he's just staying forever and then casually drops his move into conversation just to remind me he's going and I can't stop him, even though not once have I ever even tried...Ugh.
Thanks wayfarer, I’m always glad to hear from you. you’ve dealt with this kind of crazy....so you know what I’m up against. So far I think the suicidal comments are both: serious mental issues and attempt to stir emotion/attention from me.
Gosh, this just happened. I was half way asleep and H came back and woke me up. He lay next to me and started rehashing Saturday and accusing me of rejecting him in a hurtful way.
H: it’s ok for you to say no, but you could’ve said something like “under the circumstances...you don’t feel comfort with it..” Me: I’m sorry you were hurt. But that IS what I said. H: no you didn’t. You gave a look and said “nah”. Me: I didn’t do that. I told you I was uncomfortable with it. H: you said it afterwards on Sunday! Me: we didn’t see you on Sunday. H- continued to paint me as the bad guy and said that our problem was already because of the lack of affection from me, and I’m making the matter worse. H: you know what the biggest problem is? That I can’t even trust you now. Because of what you did, I can’t trust that when I’m old and sick, you will be by my side. Me: ?????
Long story short.....he was hostile. He was packing some clothes to take with him as he’s talking but when he’s done he didn’t immediately leave. He kept standing there and asking me whether I want him to stay or go. He said that he’s here hoping for intimacy but he doesn’t think it’s gonna happen because I just don’t care. He stood there telling me that this is my chance to convince him to stay. I said, “it is your choice, I cannot convince you of anything.” I said, “what you want right now, I cannot give you. Having sex with me is not going to make you feel better. You need to see somebody.” And he exploded, “I don’t fcking need to see anybody! I’ve studied this!!!!”
Finally, I told him that he should go. He responded, “I tried. I will be typing up that divorce decree”
Repeat offenders: 1. Calling me Donald Trump (he must really hate me to do this) with alternative facts 2. I can go find my man 3. Saying sorry sarcastically that he didn’t bring me flowers and he’s not romantic enough (for some reason after BD he thought I said this is the reason why we were having intimacy issues????) 4. If I bring another man in this house with the boys without talking to him, he will get violent. 5. He wants to die
I don’t think I’ve DBed enough. I need to reread validation thread again. I was worked up, I was crying because it hurt me so much to watch him just being so crazy and nonsensical. Most of the time I just tried to keep my mouth shut. I knew whatever I said, he wouldn’t be registering. But at one point after he kept going on and on about how all the fault is on me for giving up on this M... I did raise my voice and said, “You were the one who left! You left us!!”
Right now I feel like I don’t even want to stand anymore. I don’t want to be subject to this anymore. maybe D is what is good for all of us at this point....
I don’t think I’ve DBed enough. I need to reread validation thread again. I was worked up, I was crying because it hurt me so much to watch him just being so crazy and nonsensical. Most of the time I just tried to keep my mouth shut. I knew whatever I said, he wouldn’t be registering. But at one point after he kept going on and on about how all the fault is on me for giving up on this M... I did raise my voice and said, “You were the one who left! You left us!!”
Right now I feel like I don’t even want to stand anymore. I don’t want to be subject to this anymore. maybe D is what is good for all of us at this point....
Just to be very very clear DBing is not intended for addicts or those with sever mental health issues. It's pretty clear about those extenuating circumstances. The only reason I would suggest you stay the course with the DBing to stop escalating the situation. Because that's what he wants. That heightened emotion makes them feel something. And feeding into it keeps them from chasing their tails and eventually giving up.
If you want to give up, you give up. I'm not saying you must. There are women who stay through the AODA issues or mental health issues. And god love them both. But if that's not you, that's not you and it doesn't have to be.
I'm not there with you to see for myself, but if he's not going to actively address his AODA issues and/or his unaddressed mental health issues you don't have a chance in h3ll of saving this. Even if he says he's all in. Because he never will be all in with him bringing in those two things right in the middle of your marriage.
Oh, wooba, that was hard to read; I can only imagine how hard it was to go through. How hard it is to keep hearing repeat offenders 1-5. I'll let others here come in with advice if they have it, but I did want to offer some virtual hugs and say that I hope you can breathe and think of some way to care for yourself in the moment. Just to acknowledge that you're in an incredibly tough situation here, and you're doing your very best, and you don't have to have all the answers right now. (((Wooba)))
Wayfarer - yes, I have to keep DBing. I really cannot get caught up in his craziness. It is so hard to not argue and set the facts straight when he’s spewing bs. Ugh!!!
Cardinal - thank you for your kind words. We can all use some virtual hugs right now instead of real ones...;)
Journaling:
No contact for two days straight. Before I’d feel a bit unsettled, and I’d wonder whether he’s feeling okay. But I am so glad to be NC after our last episode.
Today for the first time I got a bit of the feeling that other vets have mentioned- “you will know when you are ready.” I have consulted L again for a few follow up questions. And I have looked at our finances again and really thought about how to separate everything. Our lease is coming up soon, although I do want to keep staying here just so the kids could have some kind of stability while all this is going on, I actually kind of hope that our landlord will not want to renew. That would force me to find another place for me and the kids, and for H to move all his stuff to wherever he’s staying right now.
I am losing hope. It seems less and less unlikely that H is going to deal with his issues. Today sex addiction came to mind. H has always had a super high libido...but I was feeling like a tool many times in recent years. He was using our sex to make him feel better internally. It was not love making. I don’t know. Hopefully I am not nitpicking our last so I could make him out to be this horrible person so it’s easier for me to leave him.
I'm glad you feel you can kind of take a breather here, wooba, with the period of NC.
Originally Posted by wooba
Our lease is coming up soon, although I do want to keep staying here just so the kids could have some kind of stability while all this is going on, I actually kind of hope that our landlord will not want to renew. That would force me to find another place for me and the kids, and for H to move all his stuff to wherever he’s staying right now.
Is it possible you could do a month-to-month lease, which would give you maybe more a feeling of freedom? Or, on the other hand, is it possible you mainly want the landlord not to renew so that some decision is made for you, and you feel like you can take some action without really having to decide to take it for yourself? Is it more the break in the stasis that is appealing to you, or do you think if it were up to you, you'd really want to move to a new place (regardless of where H is with dealing with his issues)? I wonder if any of those feelings could be influenced by the fact that you're feeling less hopeful at the moment. I can see why you'd feel less hopeful on the heels of that last convo with H, and how that would lead to re-examining your M in recent years. I don't mean to suggest you should or shouldn't be, only that it seems right that time will give you a greater perspective on how you're feeling, in terms of these decisions and other questions you're mulling over.
Thanks wayfarer, I’m always glad to hear from you. you’ve dealt with this kind of crazy....so you know what I’m up against. So far I think the suicidal comments are both: serious mental issues and attempt to stir emotion/attention from me.
Gosh, this just happened. I was half way asleep and H came back and woke me up. He lay next to me and started rehashing Saturday and accusing me of rejecting him in a hurtful way.
H: it’s ok for you to say no, but you could’ve said something like “under the circumstances...you don’t feel comfort with it..” Me: I’m sorry you were hurt. But that IS what I said. H: no you didn’t. You gave a look and said “nah”. Me: I didn’t do that. I told you I was uncomfortable with it. H: you said it afterwards on Sunday! Me: we didn’t see you on Sunday. H- continued to paint me as the bad guy and said that our problem was already because of the lack of affection from me, and I’m making the matter worse. H: you know what the biggest problem is? That I can’t even trust you now. Because of what you did, I can’t trust that when I’m old and sick, you will be by my side. Me: ?????
Long story short.....he was hostile. He was packing some clothes to take with him as he’s talking but when he’s done he didn’t immediately leave. He kept standing there and asking me whether I want him to stay or go. He said that he’s here hoping for intimacy but he doesn’t think it’s gonna happen because I just don’t care. He stood there telling me that this is my chance to convince him to stay. I said, “it is your choice, I cannot convince you of anything.” I said, “what you want right now, I cannot give you. Having sex with me is not going to make you feel better. You need to see somebody.” And he exploded, “I don’t fcking need to see anybody! I’ve studied this!!!!”
Finally, I told him that he should go. He responded, “I tried. I will be typing up that divorce decree”
Repeat offenders: 1. Calling me Donald Trump (he must really hate me to do this) with alternative facts 2. I can go find my man 3. Saying sorry sarcastically that he didn’t bring me flowers and he’s not romantic enough (for some reason after BD he thought I said this is the reason why we were having intimacy issues????) 4. If I bring another man in this house with the boys without talking to him, he will get violent. 5. He wants to die
I don’t think I’ve DBed enough. I need to reread validation thread again. I was worked up, I was crying because it hurt me so much to watch him just being so crazy and nonsensical. Most of the time I just tried to keep my mouth shut. I knew whatever I said, he wouldn’t be registering. But at one point after he kept going on and on about how all the fault is on me for giving up on this M... I did raise my voice and said, “You were the one who left! You left us!!”
Right now I feel like I don’t even want to stand anymore. I don’t want to be subject to this anymore. maybe D is what is good for all of us at this point....
Oh Wooba, I am so sorry. That is terribly painful to read. It seems he wants attention from you and doesn't know how to get positive attention so he is hitting wherever it hurts for negative attention.
He seems to want intimacy, but if he were asking me over and over again if I wanted him to say or go, and he is hoping for intimacy, I would think, "you know, it's awfully hard to feel intimacy with someone who keeps attacking and threatening me in a personal and cruel way."
I am glad you have NC right now because you need some time to get your bearings and heal from those interchanges. And I agree with wayfarer, your sitch is a little different to due to other unhealthy factors involved.
I don't know if it's validation you need to be studying the most....I would hope you can take this time to get perspective and detach so his cruel comments don't hurt so much. Do you have a support system outside of this forum? Someone you can vent to on the phone and have them build you up? I'm worried about you.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Is it possible you could do a month-to-month lease, which would give you maybe more a feeling of freedom? Or, on the other hand, is it possible you mainly want the landlord not to renew so that some decision is made for you, and you feel like you can take some action without really having to decide to take it for yourself? .....in terms of these decisions and other questions you're mulling over.
I am still trying to figure that out.
pros: - Find a place closer to school, (less traffic, closer to friends) - Find a place that is less expensive, in anticipation of D and financial changes - I can move him out without waiting on him to move his stuff out - H will not be able to come and go into my space as he pleases
cons: - disruption in our lives - getting rid of 90% of our things - it is just a pain in the a** to pack and move the whole place MYSELF
I think the cons are mainly the logistics. Moving to a new, smaller place I would have to get rid of a lot of furniture and just THINGS in general. things are not important to me. I guess 50% of it will be H's stuff anyway.
I feel like moving would be the right thing, but the more difficult thing for me to do....so if the landlord does not renew it will ultimately force me to do the right thing.
Originally Posted by oceangrl
It seems he wants attention from you and doesn't know how to get positive attention so he is hitting wherever it hurts for negative attention.
This is very true. Thank you for pointing that out. It is very childish isn't it, like a toddler throwing a tantrum.
Originally Posted by oceangrl
Do you have a support system outside of this forum? Someone you can vent to on the phone and have them build you up? I'm worried about you.
Thank you for your concern. I have a few close friends and few family members who know about it, so if I need to talk to someone, I have someone who's willing to lend an ear. Frankly I've gotten so sick of talking about it since it's going nowhere.
H actually sent me an email at 5am after that night to "document his pain" because according to him, I have chose to state "alternative facts."
I did not respond.
I watched this Ted talk on gaslighting today. Gaslighting - when someone manipulates you into questioning your own sanity.
things to do (recommended by the speaker): 1. Remain defiant - do not change your story 2. Recognize you will never get accountability, the gaslighter will never respond to logic and reasoning 3. Letting go of the wish for the situation to be different 4. Stop engaging, develop a healthy detachment
Sounds very much like DBing doesn't it?
And after watching the video, I realized that the one expectation I have yet to drop is expecting that I can reason with H with logic. And I do need to let go of the wish for things to be different.
He is gaslighting me, but I think he's saying that I am gaslighting him?? What do I do about that??
He is gaslighting me, but I think he's saying that I am gaslighting him?? What do I do about that??
Oh my sweet wooba. Ex used to do this all the time. The perpetual victim. Possibly the most annoying trait of the addict. My ex would flat out say I was gas-lighting him because I would refuse to acknowledge things that were blatantly untrue. He had a habit of manipulating things that were said or done to make himself look better and everyone else looks worse. Or make himself the victim and every one else was preying upon him in some fashion. This is apparently super common. Supposedly validating their feelings will deescalate. But I had a super hard time and still do saying "Oh I'm sorry you felt that way. That must have been hard for you." When he's completely lying, manipulating what had happened, or taking things out of context. If H flat out accuses you of gas-lighting my suggestion and something that worked for me so I wouldn't have to validate would be "Ok if I'm gas-lighting you, then I guess we need to be done with this conversation for now." And then I'd just walk away. I would absolutely not give him validation for BS. There's only so much you can stand your ground for because they are practically delusional working those mental gymnastics to make themselves the hero and the victim in the story. To them sticking to the story and saying it again and again may burst their little bubble but they'll stick to the lie or manipulation as long as that spin works in their favor. It's an exercise in futility to try to remain defiant unless the end step is walking away.
