a new normal

[wooba]

Don’t feel bad at all!! It’s usually pretty depressing here so it’s nice to see someone moving towards the right direction!!!

[may22]

Thanks, Cardinal and Wooba... glad I can be helpful in any little way!

Pommy... At the advice of the MC I wrote down my primary questions and went over them with him last week. He recommended not getting too deep into details on the physical part and I said I no longer want details on the emotional part-- both not really helpful for me at this point. What I do want to know is how they communicated, if he ever saw her outside of her city and another one that he told me about, where and when; and what mementos does he have of their R (the Spotify playlists for instance, still technically following her on IG though I know he is never on it)-- but does he have letters from her? Emails? Gifts? I want to know what they are (and then destroy them )

MC had some initial suggestions, like I give my written list to H and he can answer them when he is comfortable. H did not like that-- felt it was too formal. H doesn't even know my questions at this point besides the "how did they communicate" one and gets so uncomfortable that it is dropped in MC and I haven't even brought up outside of MC-- I've brought up that there are questions I want answered but not what they are. MC said in our 1-1 last week that we need to get to a point where H hands me a bunch of blank checks that represent questions I want answered and I can turn them in and he answers them. But we are so far from that... I am not seeing when it happens yet at this point.

Re the sex-- I think it is possible that H has interest, sometimes, that he isn't acting on because of that fear. I can sense it sometimes but it feels so tentative like it is better to let it start to grow on its own rather than give it too much attention and risk him pulling back altogether... like a tiny little flame that could get blown out if you aren't careful. I think he knows intellectually that I have desire for him but you're right in that I don't know that he feels that emotionally. And I'm not really ready to talk about it too much with him right now if we can't talk about the other parts of the A and address all of that. I'm not sure if half-hearted sex is helpful right now or harmful, do you know what I mean?

Maybe best to just keep on the track of trying to connect where we can as much as possible and being grateful for the fact that we are where we are in the midst of all this craziness. It could be sooooooo much worse. Honestly even if our R was like it was before the A we'd probably be having more difficulties with the quarantine situation than we are right now and our communication (except for in/re the A) is a lot better because we've been working on it.

He had a call with his IC this morning, and I asked him if he wanted to talk to the MC this week... he said to be honest not really, but would if I wanted him to. I'm not so sure if it makes sense to continue right now or just take a break (unless things change). I'm not really super interested in another solo session with him, and with the kids it will definitely be complicated for us to talk to him together, though I'm sure we could make it work if necessary. Any thoughts?

[AlisonUK]

Hi May

it's been a while since I've checked in with you, but I think being true to yourself and your own needs and finding an appropriate and timely way to communicate them, and then living your boundary in response to whatever your H does next, is probably essential right now.

For you, it might look like this,

'I'm committed to making our marriage work and that means attending MC together and working towards you giving me full disclosure on your infidelity and us developing our sexual relationship. I'm making an appointment for us later this week.'

He will either go or not go. He'll either start being honest with you and himself, or he won't.

Given the situation with lockdown, your boundaries may look practically different, but perhaps putting a time-limit on it in your mind might help?

My H strung me along for a while early in our situation with a deadline by which time he said he'd be ready to work on our relationship. All it did was keep me as plan B, and keep him from actually having to make any changes or develop any self awareness. When the deadline passed, I moved into a strict 'going dark' mode - I accepted that whatever he said or didn't say, he wasn't actually ready to work on our relationship in a way that was meaningful or acceptable to me. I took concrete action which involved no longer inviting him into the house, no longer accepting or initiating any affection, ignoring any communication which wasn't necessary and about the kids, and living as if I was single in terms of my finances and plans for my work and future. It took - I think - about three months before he decided that actually, he was ready to put the effort in. And while it has by no means perfect, and I think we moved to living together too quickly, I am sure it was my living my boundaries and refusing to be in any form of relationship with someone who wasn't taking clear action to improve it, that turned our situation around.

What would living your boundaries look like in terms of concrete changes to your own behaviour?

[may22]

Hi Alison,

'I'm committed to making our marriage work and that means attending MC together and working towards you giving me full disclosure on your infidelity and us developing our sexual relationship. I'm making an appointment for us later this week.'

I like how you've framed this. I know if I said this he'd say yes, let's go-- he's had no problem with going to the MC, but right now just doesn't want to talk to him alone unless I want him to (in which case he said he'd do it). We can't both do it right now with the lockdown.

I know that he would want to add his own things he wants to work on/through with the MC, which seems fair. The things he's brought up in the past that he wants to work on with the MC would be understanding why he did this in the first place (which the MC has steered us away from, saying right now he doesn't think it is helpful to focus on the past) and his own feelings about the SSM and why I didn't want sex with him for all those years (which, to think of it, the MC has also steered us away from, for the same reasons. Maybe the MC is trying to make us sit in the discomfort of where we are right now and in his own way is challenging H to at least acknowledge that I'm not OK. He's used the term trauma and said it is normal for me to have these questions and feelings, while at the same time acknowledging that H isn't ready to open up in that way at this point.)

I can pretty much guarantee if I said I wanted to work on us developing our sexual R in MC, he'd say OK but he still harbors anger towards me for it, and some level of frustration over me now wanting sex *now.* I think we both also want to re-develop how we make decisions together such that we both feel heard-- I feel like this is going quite well right now, but maybe we are both being especially solicitous of the other right now and I doubt that will last forever. He also has said in the past that I either have more control in our R or want to control him in our R, and when we get to the other side of all of this I want to have dealt with these kind of dynamics too, whether or not they were related to his infidelity.

However. For me, I want to deal with the infidelity questions now because I'm still angry and hurt about it, and I feel like if I let it sit for awhile and then dig back into the wound, it will hurt more than just ripping the bandaid off/cleaning out the pus now. The MC challenges me on this, says I don't know how I'll feel in the future and I also need to accept that H is simply not on my timeline for this part. H *is* willing to work on other parts of our R, like communication, teamwork, support for each other, connecting-- just doesn't want to talk about the A right now. Do I feel strongly enough that my questions need to be answered NOW enough to draw that as a boundary line, and we don't work on anything until he's at that place? I don't know. I don't think so.

Given the situation with lockdown, your boundaries may look practically different, but perhaps putting a time-limit on it in your mind might help?

We do have at least another month of lockdown where we live, probably longer. Maybe my timeline is to give it this month without pushing on the conversations, maybe not going to MC, and once we get on the other side of the lockdown see where he is in terms of opening up about the A. We also have this big trip planned for July, and I definitely feel like on the other side of THAT, which will be more than the six months the MC originally told me to chill for-- if H isn't ready then to dig in and be transparent, then I question it ever happening. Maybe that is my time limit.

Because you have pulled back recently, do you think H is worried all over again that you have lost interest and is fearful of you rejecting him all over again? I think you did a great thing telling him you wanted sex...and you got a response. Does he need that reassurance from you that you’re not going to reject him?

Pommy, I thought a lot about this. The last couple of nights it has felt like maybe... but then I didn't really make a move. Last night, though, it felt like maybe, maybe, maybe, he didn't initiate, then as we lay in bed I finally said "I can't sleep" and touched his arm and that was all it took. It really felt like he was waiting for me to make the first move because he totally pounced on my tiny little move. Anyway, I'm glad I did it and it really does help us both to feel more connected. I feel like we're moving more from the straight physical just sex from January into something more connected, though of course that could just be how I feel. But he does little things that are sweet and caring that definitely feel more romantic than before. It is all just moving so slowly.

With all this going on, I wonder if for my own mental health trying to take a break from worrying about it and just BE, be grateful for all that I have and my family has right now is the best route?

[AlisonUK]

I think gratitude and resting and waiting is a good idea, May. They are boundaries you might want to put in place that just aren't practically possible right now. There might be things that you both want - like a joint conversation with the MC - that just aren't on the cards. Cutting yourself and the situation some slack sounds like a good idea.

But I also think it is a good idea to make decisions based on what is best for you, and what you want, without second guessing what your H will do or say or make of it. You know him, sure, but basing your own actions on what you imagine he might say or do next is fruitless at best, and manipulative - even if meant with the best heart - at worst.

[may22]

But I also think it is a good idea to make decisions based on what is best for you, and what you want, without second guessing what your H will do or say or make of it. You know him, sure, but basing your own actions on what you imagine he might say or do next is fruitless at best, and manipulative - even if meant with the best heart - at worst.

I'm not basing my actions on what I think he would say or do-- I was more just trying to lay out there where I think he is in all of this, and all things he's said to me directly over the last couple of months. The only place I think I'm trying to mindread is to assess his interest in more romantic/sexual behaviors, which I think is complicated by the past SSM and so may not be as straightforward as just letting him initiate if he's interested. (Plus, if I am focusing on what *I* want... this is a big part of what I do want, for me. I mean we are locked in here, right?!? Might as well make the best of it! )

Anyway, I do think to the extent I can, letting all this worry about the A and what questions he has or hasn't answered (and when he will or won't be ready to address them) go is best for now, through this whole lockdown situation. I can't make him be ready to talk about it and I can only control my own actions and thoughts-- so focusing on being grateful for what we do have and how fortunate we are in this entire situation is where I want to be.

I feel like I was able to successfully do this when we were in that crazy limbo in January and it was really good for my peace of mind-- so if I can find that same place now, I think it will be good for me again. And the truth is that I *am* so, so grateful for where I am right now, even in the midst of this worldwide crisis. This time with the children and together as a family is a gift, even as I feel some guilt that I can take joy from this situation that is so devastating for others. I just read Wayfarer's post on Core's page about refocusing on the self and not trying to control or change the other person's behavior, or getting impatient because your S isn't on your same timeline-- that was really helpful for me. WF, you are so good at this!

[wayfarer]

Hello my sweet May,
You don't know how much I wish I could sit down and have glass of wine and hash out this weird phase in our lives with you via video of course lol. This limbo but not quite limbo thing is soooo beyond annoying with this whole being trapped together. I find myself having questions about the AP that we haven't really hashed out. Honestly it's more about their past, the times they tried this before and it failed because I just really need to understand the fantasy better, because it still doesn't make sense. He's flat out said I'm better in bed at this point and I'm so confused because given that on paper I'm better in every other aspect too. But I know isn't the time. He's gotta open up and say this is what he wants before I'm willing to open that door. And even then being stuck I just don't want to push when we can't escape each other.Same with sex. Before we got locked in I was like ok if I'm just a roommate you want to have sex with it let's do this. I'm the one with the high drive. Let's see if you can keep up. But then this.....and I'm feeling like I'm not so sure about banging my "roommate" who's still kind of in love with someone else when I have no where to go to get away. But I see these girls bonding with their dad again. And regaining trust and and faith in him. Him taking interest in who they are and what they are into right now again. The man they used to know and I just bite my tongue. And seeing them with him makes it so much easier. I take the physical touch when I can have it. And the bed partner when I can have it. And my friend when I can have it and just remain grateful that if nothing else these girls will have their dad back even if I don't ever get my husband back. He was pretty clear today that he's not planning on looking at places any time in the near future. And for as much as we're preached at for not accepting crumbs it's all I have. We are a working family unit. We are working as roommates, as friends, as friends with benefits and maybe this will be our road to recovery. Maybe it's just the last of days. Either way we're starting the next chapter sweetly and in a much better place than we were 2 months ago. All I have in this right now is the little bits of gratitude. I hope you can focus on that too. As hard as it is. And I know how d@mn hard it is. So many hugs May.

[may22]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to check in. Not too much has changed since I last updated here... it's now been nine weeks since he came back from his trip and has been NC with AP. I thought I'd kind of measure where we are. The positives: I'm 100 percent positive he isn't in contact with her anymore. We have been together 24-7 now for going on four straight weeks (literally maybe a handful of hours during that stretch we've been apart, he's gone surfing a couple times and the grocery store a couple of times) and I'm frankly amazed that we have been getting along so well through all of this. We've fought a little here and there but nothing too dramatic and are able to repair quickly and well. I feel like we're having fun, both together on our own and with the kids, and both been supportive of the other person with work/family stuff. I'd say things feel better, we feel closer, little things like physical touch have started to pick back up again, he'll make breakfast and lunch and sometimes dinner when I'm busier with work than he is, will make me a cocktail, sit down and chat, get the kids ready for distance learning in the mornings. All and all I feel grateful for where we are, though we aren't where I want to be, really, yet.

I haven't pushed R talks and have been able to mostly let my angst about the A go, for now. It is still there. It has come up a few times and I've told him I feel it is like a cancer/abscess, needs to be dealt with, the sooner the better so I/we can heal. He hasn't freaked out or gotten super defensive/angry like he had been, maybe because I've just stated how I feel and let it go.

I'd asked him to talk to his IC about some stuff and he did, said she was helpful and gave him some things to think about and work on. I asked if he wanted to talk about it and he didn't.

Wayfarer, we sooooo need a drink together. xx

[Pommy99]

May where did 9 weeks go!! That’s a long time and good to hear that things are heading in the right direction. It is an incredibly testing time, living in each other’s pockets. At the same time, you seem to have space around you to breathe - in your head if nothing else! I can understand still having the unanswered questions about the A but it sounds like you are doing a great job of boxing that off temporarily until the timing is better to open up discussions. It will be at the back of his mind too, because he knows he can’t escape from it, that it will need to be tabled one day. He is healing too (as much as he doesn’t deserve to, lol) but you being supportive and not pressuring him will be helping him, and hopefully make him realise what an incredible woman you are for standing by him and giving him time and space. You are so strong.

Sending hugs x

[cardinal]

But May, how is the baking? Haha. I don’t understand time anymore at all, but I remember saying something like I guess this is when patience really comes in, and May, you’ve got that. I think it’s amazing and probably really helpful for both of you at this time that you can acknowledge the A will still need to be addressed, but then let it go, and that he is getting better at hearing that and not reacting. This lockdown time could be like a pressure cooker for one or both of you, but it sounds like neither of you are letting it become that. (((May)))