Never say never. No one believes it here but time and space can wonders for a person perception. As time goes by people tend to think about the good times more then the bad times.
Peter Crone has some really good videos that touch on abandonment you may want to check out.
You seem like a very successful guy who does well in life. Why are you so obsessed with a woman who has fired as her husband, is on dating websites and didn't acknowledge your birthday?
You don't even have children together. I would really like to hear your answer.
BTW U is right you have NGS big time.
I wanted to come back to this, because specifically in the context of therapy, it's a question I've been asked. I mentioned to my therapist that right as she was getting ready to move out, WAS turned to me without context and said "You know, I don't think of this as a failure. I think of this as a success." And that really stuck out to me.
I do think of it as a failure. The most painful failure of my life. I've been lucky enough to have a lot of success in my life, and a lot of that success has simply boiled down to hard work, perseverance, and resilience. But when I look at the M, all I see are things I'd have done differently. Areas where I feel short, things I wish I knew then that I know now, times in which I took it all for granted. I'm hard on myself because that's what has always worked for me.
I don't know if I'll ever view it as anything but a failure. And it's probably true that the impulse I have to fix things, to make it right, to not forgive myself is keeping me in this loop.
SteveS ~ I've probably re-read NMMNG 4 times. I learn new insights each time.
I also found myself finally getting in touch with healthy anger in the last year. You know the book... NG's *think* they aren't angry, but they really are, and often in unhealthy ways.
One supplemental thing that helped me was listening to some podcasts by a certain author known for using expletives in the title of his books. He talks about really getting in touch with your core values, then making decisions aligned with those values. Not just paying them lip-service and acting like they are your values. Really meaning it. For some reason, this really helped me detach a lot from the BS and focus on my needs to the point where I had a lot more perspective on my life and what I wanted out of it.
BTW I'm no guru of how to do this. It took my STBXW trying to move away with my kids over false allegations to finally "see the light" so to speak. It's hard when you don't have these obvious flashing red signs. How patient you want to be is up to you, but the current dynamic does sound completely stuck.
I do think of it as a failure. The most painful failure of my life. I've been lucky enough to have a lot of success in my life, and a lot of that success has simply boiled down to hard work, perseverance, and resilience.
The blessing for all of us is that the pain and stress provide motivation for real change.
Its a rare opportunity in life to find motivation really evaluate who you are and who you want to be.
From my perspective, someone who saves their marriage but goes back to their old habits and resolves themselves to a life of unhappiness is not a success story.
Someone who ends up with a divorce but moves on to healthier and happier relationships has succeeded.
Originally Posted by SteveS
But when I look at the M, all I see are things I'd have done differently. Areas where I feel short, things I wish I knew then that I know now, times in which I took it all for granted. I'm hard on myself because that's what has always worked for me.
I suggested Peter Crone and two things I have learned from him is "What happened happened and it couldn't happen any other way because it didn't" and "you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time".
Take some time and really try to absorb those statements.
Its a rare opportunity in life to find motivation really evaluate who you are and who you want to be.
I certainly agree with you here. If there's one thing keeping my head above water, it's knowing that for as hard as this is, I'm going to come out the other side so much stronger and so much more aware of my problematic relationship patterns. It's no surprise I've had many relationships end up not working out for the same reasons - I never addressed the underlying issues until now.
I'll look up Peter Crone, thank you for the suggestion.
How patient you want to be is up to you, but the current dynamic does sound completely stuck.
It's definitely stuck, there's no maybe about it. I find it really difficult to understand how to be outcome-independent and drop the rope, but not give up. It feels like I'll never be able to detach so long as there's still ambiguity about the situation.
I feel like I'm doing a fairly good job at some of it. I'm NC unless she initiates it and I'm very short and to-the-point when she does. I'm focusing on my own growth, and taking care of myself physically. I'm reading, working with a therapist, and posting here.
But I still have such trouble understanding how to set boundaries. As an example, I'm very frustrated the process we're going through, how she says that she wants legal separation paperwork in place yet does nothing about it. But I feel like if I say "Look, either you complete them by date x or I'm going to do it" is just going to be pressure, ultimatums, and doing the work for her. So I sort of don't really know how to balance out the ideas that I'm learning about.
I completely get it. What you are dealing with is the one aspect of DB I don't think I ever grasped (when to decide to walk). It just so happened that my situation got so bad that choosing to D was clearly the best option, hands down.
Originally Posted by SteveS
But I feel like if I say "Look, either you complete them by date x or I'm going to do it" is just going to be pressure, ultimatums, and doing the work for her. So I sort of don't really know how to balance out the ideas that I'm learning about.
You feel that way, or you think SHE will feel that way?
My personal take on DB is that it is a prescription for an acute patient (the LBS) to prevent him/her from doing incredibly stupid and destructive things to their changes of repairing their MR. It is also a prescription to set one on the path towards self-improvement and happiness regardless of the MR outcome.
At first, you follow the protocol strictly. Sandy's 39 rules, to a tee. Over time, things come more naturally. Eventually, hopefully you start to THINK differently. You start to build self-confidence in who you are and who you want to be. You change how you interact with people. You become more self-assured.
What I'm trying to say is, micro-analyzing whether or not these little decisions apply pressure is, in my opinion, a complete waste of your time. You are a year into your situation. If you want the paperwork done, tell her if she doesn't complete them by date X you're going to do it. If you don't care, leave it alone and enjoy your day. It is incredibly liberating to start making these decisions quickly, feeling good about them, ignoring how the other person will react (knowing that you made a decision in accordance with your values), and going on about your day without the NG thought patterns.
WAW and I are meeting this Tuesday - apparently she has finally gotten the forms ready for the legal separation and wants to go over them with me. If you've been following my bizarre saga, she's held firm that she's been ambivalent and unable to determine whether she wants to work on things or move on until this legal separation is in place, so I guess now is where the rubber meets the road.
I've been in rough shape this week, but in working with my IC and some close friends, I've come to realize that it's because I'm finally moving through the denial phase and progressing into something more realistic. That doesn't necessarily make the pain any less, but it means that I'm growing and getting stronger and approaching things from a healthier mindset. It's alway the darkest before the dawn, or so they say.
So far as Tuesday, I plan to be respectful but fight for what is best for me, and if that causes conflict, so be it. I do not know what insight she thinks she'll gain from this that will help her make a decision one way or another, but that's not my concern. If anything it might work to my advantage to set boundaries, fight for what is fair to me, and stand up for myself.
It's still very tough overall. For as much as I can point to positive things - I'm a young-ish (38), successful man in NYC - I still very much want to work it out and keep fighting for the M I had. That's not up to me, and I'll be fine either way. One day at a time, I guess.
One thing I'm working on with my IC is the idea of failure and blame. As I mentioned before, I very much think of this as a failure and while I don't assign 100% of the blame to myself, I do blame a majority of it on me, and it's very hard to forgive myself right now. If I look at my friends, the ones who are divorced are the ones with obvious problems, the alcoholics and the professionally stunted, and I just don't fall into that category in my mind. I'm embarrassed to talk about my situation, even with friends, because I just never thought I'd be here. What kind of person gets separated after 2 years?
I know it's just negative, go-nowhere thinking, but it's hard to ignore it. I don't go as far as to think that she never loved me, or didn't want to get married to me -- I know she did, full on. But it's embarrassing to think about how quickly things went south. And while I know it's better to move on and forge a new life than to live an unhappy life forever, I do still believe in my heart of hearts that she and I could work it out if we tried. But it's not up to me. And it's hard not to beat myself up for the things I feel I did to cause this.
Well, we'll see how Tuesday goes I guess. I'm 99.99% sure this is the end of the road, and I'm going to have to move on and hit the reset button on my life. I think that's why I'm feeling as down as I am.
Blame is 50/50, no more no less. You are a good person.
I hope your IC can help you get over feeling like this is a failure or shameful or embarrassing. It happens all the time.
Stand up for yourself. I assure you the NGS tendencies will guide you towards caving to “keep the peace.”
You are not young-ish, you are young. You are successful. I have 3 kids and I’m older than you, and I don’t live in one of the most dynamic cities in the world. And I’m not worried about finding a future relationship at all. You’re gonna be fine.
