My story, trial separation for now, Part 4

[SteveS]

Hi all, just wanted to check back in with some journaling.

WAW and I are still working through the separation agreement. I've held my line on what I think is fair relative to the splitting of our assets, but she does not agree. I would love it if she realized that my offering of 15% of the total equity of the company I sold is 15% more than she'd get from a divorce, and that it is an honest representation of how I value the support and the role she played in my life during that time, even though we weren't married. Instead, she views it as less than the 25% I had initially discussed immediately after we were separated, when I was heartbroken and grasping at any straws. Frustrating.

In going through some of our expenses for budget purposes, I noticed a few entries from her at a coffee shop nowhere near her place, and a Venmo of her splitting dinner with a male co-worker. I couldn't help but do some digging, and sure enough, that guy lives across the street from the coffee shop. So either they're seeing each other, or they just co-work together. Either way, I shouldn't have dug into it but I did, and it stung. Not that I expected her to just shut down her life, but I'm sure you can understand that it's never fun to discover that stuff.

We're planning to follow-up when she gets back a newly updated copy of the agreement from her lawyer, after which my lawyer will look at it, make changes, and so on. Before I sign it, I want to have a discussion with her about what's next, how we're feeling, and set my expectations that we need to spend at least one hour a week together -- not a date, but going for a walk, catching up on our lives, leaning into the connection that is obviously still there. She is holding the line here too, she doesn't want to discuss how she's feeling or what's next until the agreement is signed.

Being the logical person I am, when I try to reason this out, it doesn't really add up. If the door really was still open, she would be more communicative around that fact, because then it would make me more amicable to find a resolution. If it wasn't, her moves would be to either lie to me (risking me not believing her, or looking like a terrible person to our mutual friends when it all unwinds) or simply refuse to say anything, leaving me to guess and try to be amicable to hold on to what little is left.

I have a difficult time understanding the balance between standing up for the things that I need and setting boundaries vs. listening to her, validating, and disagreeing but letting it be. How would you respond to that push back?

Anyway, the mindset I'm taking with all of this is that this is 99% headed for D, and that I need to protect myself, and above all not make any decisions trying to influence or grasp for that remaining 1%.

There's a huge part of me that just wants to say "Screw this!" and just file for divorce, throwing the separation agreement aside. But I'm not all the way there yet. In working with my NMMNG counselor, his advice was to hold my own line, and reframe the discussion to whatever concessions I want to give as a gift with no strings attached, one that I would be indifferent to losing if things didn't work out.

All of this is incredibly draining emotionally. As I've said a few times, I do know that my best days are ahead of me, that I've done hard and difficult work confronting my NG tendencies, and that I'm a catch who will be much more successful in the next relationship, whenever that comes. But that doesn't make this process any less painful.

[LH19]

Before I sign it, I want to have a discussion with her about what's next, how we're feeling, and set my expectations that we need to spend at least one hour a week together -- not a date, but going for a walk, catching up on our lives, leaning into the connection that is obviously still there.

No no no no Steve. You are going to try to force her to spend time with you? That's pressure and controlling. Have you learned anything?

Being the logical person I am, when I try to reason this out, it doesn't really add up. If the door really was still open, she would be more communicative around that fact, because then it would make me more amicable to find a resolution. .

Steve the door is closed, shut and locked. I am sorry.

I have a difficult time understanding the balance between standing up for the things that I need and setting boundaries vs. listening to her, validating, and disagreeing but letting it be. How would you respond to that push back? .

Give me an example of push back.

Anyway, the mindset I'm taking with all of this is that this is 99% headed for D, and that I need to protect myself, and above all not make any decisions trying to influence or grasp for that remaining 1%..

Good!

There's a huge part of me that just wants to say "Screw this!" and just file for divorce, throwing the separation agreement aside. .

This is what I chose to do.

[ovrrnbw]

She is holding the line here too, she doesn't want to discuss how she's feeling or what's next until the agreement is signed.

She is not telling the truth bc she is working to get the best outcome for herself. She's not with you anymore. Once the agreement is signed it is sayonara. I could be wrong but if she cared about you maybe she'd find time to go to dinner with you and not this other dude.

I'd abandon this separation agreement and divorce agreement altogether and go no contact. I definitely wouldn't push to see her 1 hour per week. Then if you want to wait it out and see if she comes back or files, go through your lawyer.

I don't think her emotional support and cohabitation means she gets part of your company, but if you want to give 15% that is certainly your choice.

[SteveS]

So I think my message was somewhat unclear, let me try to clear it up:

I know many of you disagree, but the number that I feel is fair and ethically correct to offer to WAS in regards to the equity is 15%. Again, I know you disagree but I have to separate the person now from the person then; she went above and beyond for me during a very stressful time, and although we weren't married, we were living together and she played a very large role in keeping me emotionally balanced during an immensely stressful time. This is a number I am comfortable with giving, even if she immediately takes it and walks.

Second, when I say that I want to see her at least once a week, this is a part of the condition of me signing this agreement. This is my boundary. She has said that she needs this agreement in place in order to move forward; that is her position. My position is, I will sign this agreement only under terms that I feel are fair (see above), and after it is signed, my expectations are that we meet weekly to ascertain what is next, or else I am done. That's my position.

In either scenario, like you I expect her to immediately walk after the separation agreement is signed, as you are correct that I have nothing to point to that leads me to believe otherwise. Therefore I am only going to offer her what I am comfortable losing in the event that she immediately walks. She doesn't want 15%? Fine, take 0% instead. She doesn't want to sit down and work on things? Fine, I'm out.

[LH19]

Second, when I say that I want to see her at least once a week, this is a part of the condition of me signing this agreement. This is my boundary. She has said that she needs this agreement in place in order to move forward; that is her position. My position is, I will sign this agreement only under terms that I feel are fair (see above), and after it is signed, my expectations are that we meet weekly to ascertain what is next, or else I am done. That's my position. .

Steve sounds more like manipulation to me then a boundary.

If she felt you were manipulative and controlling in the relationship I think I can see why.

[SteveS]

Second, when I say that I want to see her at least once a week, this is a part of the condition of me signing this agreement. This is my boundary. She has said that she needs this agreement in place in order to move forward; that is her position. My position is, I will sign this agreement only under terms that I feel are fair (see above), and after it is signed, my expectations are that we meet weekly to ascertain what is next, or else I am done. That's my position. .

Steve sounds more like manipulation to me then a boundary.

If she felt you were manipulative and controlling in the relationship I think I can see why.

I guess I don't understand. She's said that she needs this agreement in place in order to determine how we move forward. How is that possible unless we're actually getting together and working through things, having those tough conversations?

I don't want to live in the ambiguity and uncertainty anymore. Without this boundary, I'd potentially be signing up for even more ambiguity. Okay, we signed this agreement. Now what? More months of basically NC?

I'm having a really hard time squaring all of this up. NMMNG tells me I need to be clear about what I need, and hold the line on those things. Wisdom on here is to give her even more space than she asks for - which is exactly what I've done so far. Those two ideas seem in opposition.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand but I do very much appreciate everyone's candor.

[AlisonUK]

I think it comes off as manipulative and controlling too. A boundary is about your actions, not someone else's. In her position, I'd think you were trying to buy my interaction with you with money from the company.

When she says she needs the agreement in place to determine how we move forward, she's probably trying to manipulate you a bit too. So you're locked together in this stalemate.


NMMNG is about being clear on what you need, yes. But your needs don't automatically translate into a demand for someone else.

You need an hour of her time once per week. She's saying no. So you find some other way to meet that need, and you do whatever you think is best or what is legally required of you with your company.

She needs the agreement in place. You either make the agreement, or you don't, and she gets to cope with that unmet need in whatever way she sees fit.

[LH19]

I guess I don't understand. She's said that she needs this agreement in place in order to determine how we move forward. .

See right here she is manipulating you. You are a smart guy. Do you really need a separation agreement to work on the marriage?

How is that possible unless we're actually getting together and working through things, having those tough conversations? .

I 100% agree but it can't be because you force it. It has to be her idea. That's the only way it works out.

I don't want to live in the ambiguity and uncertainty anymore. Without this boundary, I'd potentially be signing up for even more ambiguity. Okay, we signed this agreement. Now what? More months of basically NC? .

Steve you are signing a separation agreement that means you are separated. It may lead to recon and it may lead to D. By signing this you are agreeing to uncertainty and more limbo.

I'm having a really hard time squaring all of this up. NMMNG tells me I need to be clear about what I need, and hold the line on those things. Wisdom on here is to give her even more space than she asks for - which is exactly what I've done so far. Those two ideas seem in opposition..

Fine. Honey I love you and adore you and would love to work together on the marriage. I love myself too much to not stand by while you are on dating apps and dating another men. This does not work for me. Either we work on the marriage together or we D and go our separate ways.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand but I do very much appreciate everyone's candor.

I know Steve this is difficult and certainly not easy.

[ovrrnbw]

Do not let her bring you to your knees. I'm not saying divorce her now, but just exit her crazy world. Take your respect back. Turn the BS meter on. Your attitude can be 100% better. I know you're hurting, choose happiness.

And if you want to give her 15%, good for you.

[Traveler]

Second, when I say that I want to see her at least once a week, this is a part of the condition of me signing this agreement. This is my boundary.

Steve, reading this I was definitely smacked with--"Wow! You're paying her to spend time with you. That looks desperate and controlling." Boundaries protect you. They don't control others.

NMMNG is about being clear on what you need, yes. But your needs don't automatically translate into a demand for someone else.

Allison breaks it down very well.

You can be clear that you'll only eat at Brazilian restaurants that serve Caiparinhas, but you don't want to be that guy who tries to argue and force a local Brazilian restaurant to serve you a Caiparihnha.

I'm having a really hard time squaring all of this up. NMMNG tells me I need to be clear about what I need, and hold the line on those things. Wisdom on here is to give her even more space than she asks for - which is exactly what I've done so far. Those two ideas seem in opposition.

Well, do you want to gift her 15% of your company? If yes, then do so, no strings or conditions.

Have you told her you want to spend 1hr/week with her? Great--you've been clear about your needs! What did she say? Accept her decision. Do whatever you need to accept that reality. Whatever you were hoping to get from her you will have to figure out how to fulfill on your own or with somebody else.