May, if I may (hehe)... I think you may (lol) sense frustration from people who are recognising patterns and want to help you see them. And I do get your frustration when ten people in a row say the same thing. So this is not advice, just an observation.
The most obvious pattern I see is all the little boundaries he has crossed without consequence.
You have your bright line that he cannot cross - moving out. That's great. All your other lines have been drawn in the sand. And the problem with drawing lines in the sand is that they wash away. Thinking back over your journey, it feels like there have been so many times you've said "if he does/doesn't do X, I will/won't do Y". But when push comes to shove, he kicks sand everywhere and messes up your line.
And here's where people maybe get frustrated. Instead of shaking off the sand and redrawing the line, you take a few steps further down the beach and draw a new line. You tell us why he did it - heatstroke, scared by a shark, tripped over etc. And to us, it looks like H is slowly forcing you into the ocean step by step. People are watching it happen and waving and shouting to prevent you from eventually drowning.
This is not to say that you are stupid or helpless or blind at all. You know yourself and you know your H. You may actually be drawing a giant picture in the sand with all the lines and we just can't see it. Maybe you intend to go in the water because you're an awesome swimmer. But from our deck chairs on the beach, we don't know that.
This is just a metaphor, obviously, and a dramatic one at that. I might be completely wrong and out here on a limb with my opinion. So if this post doesn't serve you, feel free to disregard.
Ginger, these are good questions that have been posed to me before-- in fact, I was just looking at my notes on my phone and those same questions are there. What do I want for myself in a partner? I want basically a combination of the H I have now (well not at this exact minute, but I had in the spring) in terms of a partner, co-parent, thought partner, etc. It was weird to me that if I hadn't started wanting sex again, the H I had all spring was perfect, thoughtful, funny, doing his half or more of the day-to-day work around the around the house-- all my old beefs were gone. Plus, the H I had before the SSM started, who loved me more than anything in the world, would do anything for me, was romantic and kind and adoring and wrote me a letter every single day when he was deployed. Who always let me know I was his priority. And (since we're dreaming here) a more fulfilling sexual relationship and stronger communication than we had in the past. Not taking each other for granted. In general, outside of the children? I want trust. Respect. Love. Travel. Cooking. Learning new things. Laughing. Having FUN every day. Inside jokes. That's a start, at least.
Scout, thank you for this. H actually said to me the other night that I kept making threats and then not following up on them. I asked what he meant and he couldn't think of one except me saying I want to get divorced at a number of points throughout this and then of course we aren't divorced yet. I want to re-read through my threads and see where those little boundaries have been crossed... I know that I've been $hit at boundaries until more recently, but my IC just said yesterday that she thought I'd been doing a lot better in sticking to my boundaries now than a month ago, and that enforcing is a lot easier than establishing. I feel a little confused because both of you only know what I tell you and I don't think I say anything differently here as I do to my IC... so I need to think on this more. I know from back in January my main boundaries were I wouldn't work on our M with a third party in the picture and I wouldn't be friends if we Ded. I have obviously still been living with him with a third party in the picture both back in January and then again in June/July (and this past week), but we haven't also been working on our R during those times (MC, etc.) I guess in my head I would have booted him out the second he reengaged in June, and I didn't. But, my boundary was not that I wouldn't live with him, but that I wouldn't work on our relationship in any direction. Anyway, I welcome more thoughts on this.
And to your analogy... I know I'm nowhere near as good of a swimmer as you are, but I'm not bad, and all along I've said I'll swim through the deepest, most shark-infested parts if it reduces the impact on my kids. If there's a chance that we can actually rebuild our M without bringing the children into it, I will fight for that chance. Every time. Knowing it will be harder on me and the odds of success are low. And I'm not yet to the point of believing it is better for the children for us to S regardless.
I really am, though, trying to take focus off of him and put it back on me. I promise.
She called him today to follow up on their text exchange, and he said it was done, over. He went through the whole conversation with me. I'm not sure if I'm satisfied. Maybe I never can be satisfied, I'll never be able to trust that this is really it. I don't know. I told him I'm not ready to put my rings back on and I still wasn't sure if it it was enough for me to recommit. I need to think on it.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
So that should be it for the OW. Is her number blocked? Is there full transparency and you have access to his computer and phone? If you do not I wouldn’t invest any energy into the relationship.
So that should be it for the OW. Is her number blocked? Is there full transparency and you have access to his computer and phone? If you do not I wouldn’t invest any energy into the relationship.
There's a chance he will speak with her again today. The one specific thing I told him I was dissatisfied with in their conversation is that he didn't specifically say please don't ever contact me again. He felt it was clear and she won't. I have zero trust in her judgment on this given the history here. But, I don't want to tell him what to do. This is his to handle and I will need to decide if I'm comfortable. But other than that, yes to all your questions. He confirmed last night he'll block her number (she's already blocked on WhatsApp), delete her contact info, and change back his phone password (he changed it this past week).
All that being said. None of the above means $hit, really, unless he lives it out. She could always find a way to reach him if she really wants. He could be the one to call her. He could unblock her. He could change his phone password. All things he did just a couple of weeks ago. And, I don't want to be the police and check it all the time.
I've been reading my journal from January again, to see what is different this time, if anything is different this time. There are some key things, and transparency and blocking her are two of them. So, there's that. But I still don't think I'll be interested in investing any energy into this R for awhile regardless. He's pretty sad about the conversation and while I get it I'm not the one to help him through this. I feel like we both just need some space.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
That's right. Live your life and do your thing. You will know eventually if he is serious or not.
Interesting you mentioned needing space but don't want to separate.
Yeah. I know.
My mom lives in an area affected by the smoke and since she's stuck inside, has been going through old photos. She keeps scanning them in and texting them to me or in combinations with my brothers or H. She just sent one of our wedding to me and H together. It really hit me hard. That M is over. We'll never be those people again.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
One of my colleagues passed away yesterday of COVID-19. She was completely fine one day, went home, had a slight fever that evening and got tested. Was fine with nothing but a slight fever for a week and then totally crashed. Two weeks in the ICU and it looked like she was moving in the right direction but then took a turn again for the worse. We had to tell all the staff over zoom. It would have been her 30th work anniversary next month. And then the news about RGB... I ended up in an emergency half hour session with my IC yesterday evening.
Our plan-- she said she feels all my sessions are taken up by me talking about H, what he says, thinks, and does. (Sound familiar? I was a little embarrassed.) She wants to spend sessions going forward just talking about me. She said it was time for me to go into power saver mode, hunker down, and just worry about myself for awhile. Which is what I'm doing. Ordered takeout from a place I love last night, took a bubble bath, and got a good night's sleep. Made lists of movies I want to watch. Downloaded a bunch of escapist novels. Went for a drive. Hung out with my kids. Played with the kittens. Responded to one of the potential job offer people (they've all reached back out knowing I'm back from the trip now, and I couldn't get up enough whatever to engage). Have barely interacted with my H at all. Thinking about getting a hotel room for a few nights just to get some space from everything.
just wanted to say thanks to all of you for sticking with me and supporting me even when I'm having a hard time listening. the one thing I will say is that reading my journal and posts from last fall-- I may not be where I need to get, yet, but I've come a long, long way. Thanks to all of you. xx
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
One of my colleagues passed away yesterday of COVID-19. She was completely fine one day, went home, had a slight fever that evening and got tested. Was fine with nothing but a slight fever for a week and then totally crashed. Two weeks in the ICU and it looked like she was moving in the right direction but then took a turn again for the worse. We had to tell all the staff over zoom. It would have been her 30th work anniversary next month. And then the news about RGB... I ended up in an emergency half hour session with my IC yesterday evening.
Very sorry to hear about your colleague May.
Originally Posted by may22
Our plan-- she said she feels all my sessions are taken up by me talking about H, what he says, thinks, and does. (Sound familiar? I was a little embarrassed.)
Eh.. It happens. Now you see it and now you can get excited about how to take care of May.
Originally Posted by may22
She wants to spend sessions going forward just talking about me. She said it was time for me to go into power saver mode, hunker down, and just worry about myself for awhile. Which is what I'm doing. Ordered takeout from a place I love last night, took a bubble bath, and got a good night's sleep. Made lists of movies I want to watch. Downloaded a bunch of escapist novels. Went for a drive. Hung out with my kids. Played with the kittens.
Yas!! Love the self care here.
Originally Posted by may22
Have barely interacted with my H at all. Thinking about getting a hotel room for a few nights just to get some space from everything.
Sounds like it a nice break! I would say to pick the room that includes a jet tub and room service!
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
May - so sorry to hear about your colleague. It's strange how sometimes life throws us some opportunities for more perspective sometimes.
Your just worrying about yourself mode sounds very fun and I hope that it also grants you some perspective. I had felt that same way re: my first IC during S; I was just gabbing at the IC the same way I did my close friends who knew what was going on, and didn't really get much support or advice. Once I switched ICs, I made a point to change that dynamic; my new one is a way better IC for me so that has been helpful. I know you've expressed how much you like your IC before, so that's awesome to hear that she is looking out for you as well.
That does sound tough re: your mom sending you wedding photos. It can be difficult to let yourself grieve and let go of that version of your M. I sometimes feel that way, too. I then think about how the pre-S version of my M also contained the things that we both did that led to the S, and the crappier stuff that happened during S, and that helps ease the pain of moving away from that. Some of those things from M 1.0 I want to move away from!
It sounds exhausting when you recount interacting with your H right now. I think your time focused on you will help you put that energy into something that serves you, and deciding what path that is, on your own timetable.
I am sorry to hear about your colleague, May. Covid svcks, especially when it hits so close to home.
I am happy to hear your IC directed you to focus on you right now. But on the same token, she is a real-life confidant that can help you navigate some of H’s behavior, so don’t beat yourself up if you need to vent here and there. Life is messy; relationships are not an individual’s path, but a joint one. You will find you in this process, of that I am sure.
I love to read you contemplating your previous lines in the sand, and where you have allowed them to become squiggly over the course of your journey. I think this contemplation will allow you to find where your true boundaries are and build your (blank paper) roadmap from there.
I also love the idea of you getting out of the house for a bit— whether taking a few days in a hotel or even just finally taking H up on his offer to support you doing yoga or going out for a bit to do your own thing. It is not only healing, but also a 180 and great GALing for you. But the hotel room would be particularly dreamy. I couldn’t have survived my sitch without some nights alone to do some deep thinking.
And re: your mama sending photos: thank god that marriage is gone. You wouldn’t want to start over on the same marriage anyway. But I also empathize with the grief of innocence lost.
May, I believe in you. To make the best decision for yourself, your children and your future. And I do believe that H is really trying right now. However imperfect that may look from the outside. Only you know your M and only you can make the best choices for you.
I hope you had a good weekend. Thinking of you. (((May)))
