Fumbling my way forward

[TJT]

I at least think he may need some anger management

He is not a super romantic

the reason I've stuck with him is because typically he will do the tiniest things to adjust that I recognize are not in his usual nature and that show me he is trying.

Does it? Or is he doing the “tiniest thing” = bare minimum to get you to stop asking him for whatever it is you need?

Trust me, this was something that earlier in the relationship I actually brought up directly. We are very different, and I wanted to make sure this wasn't just for convenience or something to meet his needs. I know his history as well and have talked to his friends and family (who love me and have attested to how much he has grown with me) and while I won't claim to know 100% for sure, I don't think this is his intent and it is more of a character flaw related to his ego more than his respect for the relationship. And with not being super romantic... my XH was MEGA romantic and that apparently didn't mean anything in the long run when it came down to it. It's different, and I am simply trying to respect and understand my SO as a person before I make a lasting judgment on whether he is committed to me.

There’s a HUGE difference between DBing to save a marriage, and DBing a dating relationship. Sounds to me like there are bigger issues here than just an inappropriate ex girlfriend.

Yes, I think I've fairly openly acknowledged that.

This early in a relationship things should be really GOOD. Your partner should be appreciating you for your great qualities. (And they are great qualities). But you might be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. This is a guy who has CHOSEN crazy in the past. Repeatedly, apparently. Some guys are attracted to the excitement of the drama-filled crazies (just like some women seek out the “bad boys”) and they’re not suited to a real, mature relationship with an adult human being.

Don't disagree with you at all on this. We definitely had those conversations about why he stayed with his crazy ex so long. He gave me his reasons and I established my expectations of our relationship and it's one of those things that we have left in the past (and it's not like he's always chosen crazy, it was just the most recent one before me). We are both coming from some traumatic experiences, and combined with coming from two very different upbringings (and cultures, to be clear), and having two different personalities, it's definitely not been the typical relationship trajectory. Honestly, when we first met we didn't really have expectations of what it would be... it was "let's see what happens" kind of thing and he could have definitely just stopped trying completely and gone to the next one, but we both felt we were having enough fun with each other and liked each other enough to keep going.

I should also point out that when we first started dating, we lived quite far from each other and for a while I was definitely doing the lions share of work driving out to see him. 3 months into it his roommate moved in with him (in a tiny apartment) so it wasn't ideal for us to all be together there. He is a city boy and I live in a more rural part of the community, so initially he didn't think he would want to come see me, being so far combined not being in the thick of all the action. I told him there is no way it would work if he wasn't willing to come to me more often and lo and behold, he started doing it, realized it wasn't so bad, and now lives here with me.

As far as our differences and his personality, it forces me to not be so dependent on his validation because well, he's just not going to coddle me in that way. Sometimes that causes problems and is something he needs to recognize the effects of, but there's a point where that's also something I need to work on because there's no denying I get very attached. I don't know how not to. I was alone for 6 months and while I was lonely, I was good, had my own things (I still do) and I didn't just go out and find whatever placeholder men to pacify myself. But once I do connect with someone it affects me a lot and I don't know why that is or how to change it. I can only hope that I will meet someone who will want the same kind of partnership where we each challenge each other to be the best we can be.

I may just be working in the reverse mindset that yeah, sure, every relationship usually starts out as rainbows and butterflies, but I know it takes hard work, and if someone is willing to work with me to grow closer together over time through both of our issues, that means more to me than anything else. Neither one of us is interested in rushing and making a decision about our long term future. We agree we are in a serious relationship but we also equally agree that there are some things we gotta figure out for it to get to the next level.

Sounds to me like you’re working WAY to hard to make this relationship work, when he may not be the droid you are looking for. Sounds like maybe your fear of loss is leading you to try to make this relationship work when he’s just not that great a fit for you?

Look, again to be completely honest, I don't disagree. I believe 100% I am trying harder than I should. I don't totally think that means that if I were to stop trying that he wouldn't step up. But I know that's for him to prove and not for me to say, and eventually I think that will play out. If it means anything though, that's also a conversation we've had directly. I've told him that this is the kind of person I am, which I know is a problem because it's not fair to ME, and eventually if I feel like I'm the only one really going full steam on this thing, caring fully for you and not getting it equally back, it will be the end of us. I may wait longer than I should before calling it quits, but I know for SURE that I will not go any further with this person until we are good on those values and issues we have.

[TJT]

Hey all - just wanted to write after this long spell to share… the day came. My ExH wrote me an email saying in short he regrets everything since the day he hurt me, is trying to work on himself, blah blah blah. He said he wished he had been a better person but now has to live with the consequences etc. and I was the best thing that ever happened to him. He made sure to say I shouldn’t feel obligated to respond (gee thanks for taking that weight off me haha).

Here’s the thing: I know his affair partner left him and in fact cheated on him. How do I know this? Pinterest. Dude only uses it to post deep quotes when he’s going through something apparently and I checked it after receiving his email to find a thousand clues.

The irony is beyond words. The quotes he’s posting are all like “if you love someone you don’t leave no matter how hard the situation”… “I hope they ask about me and I hope you tell them you messed up”… and other things about cheating, feeling useless due to being discarded on a whim, etc. Hah.

All this to say, first and foremost, I didn’t respond and don’t really care about this man one bit anymore. But also, I don’t believe for one minute he’s actually working on himself. His little fling left him and now he doesn’t know what else to do. While I feel validated in a way by his email - mainly just the concept that he feels the regret - it’s also maddening in a way that he still doesn’t seem to really fully get it and still continues to behave in a manipulative way veiled as something else. For example, he said he has hated every day since he hurt me. Really? I gave him more opportunities than he ever deserved… (and boy am I glad he didn’t take them). He also made a comment that he attempted to take his life because of being in such a dark bad place with things weighing heavy on his heart, so that’s why he’s writing me to express his regret. Everyone I talk to agrees - that seemed pretty irrelevant to say and more just an attempt to get pity. Same with the “don’t feel obligated to respond comment” - seems like a basic reverse psychology attempt. Oy. And lastly - if he really has all these realizations of his problems and is really working on himself I would fully expect him to have a therapist at a minimum. And while I don’t know this for sure, by the way his email was written and knowing how this man was in the past, he’s not doing a dang thing. He’s saying he’s doing it and telling himself he’s doing it when he’s really not doing jack. There was no specificity in his email about what issues he was going through at the time or what actual help he’s getting.

Anyway, not my problem anymore. I do find it interesting how I notice my mindset after receiving this email. I felt relieved that he wasn’t my problem anymore and also like I wanted to get away from him even more. While I always looked forward to one day getting this note to validate that I’m not crazy and didn’t deserve what happened, it’s also just totally not even close to fulfilling enough for all the pain he caused. That box is checked, but I am now repulsed by this person, and it embarrasses me that I ever tried so hard to make it work. I give myself grace because I guess it’s only until we let the whole thing transpire that we can accurately see the person for who they are. I can’t blame myself for thinking he should have been a good person worth fighting for, or might have been willing to put in work to grow.

So there’s that. Otherwise, I’m still seeing the same guy for 2.5 years now and I’m still working on my abandonment anxiety in general. Some things definitely still need to change with how I put way too much in before getting equal out. I learned this is a subconscious form of trying to prove my value in umpteen different ways when really I myself alone should be enough (I just thought I was a nice loyal person but this actually also makes a ton of sense for why I go above and beyond for nothing). I’m still trying to reconcile that because I don’t feel like I go through life feeling less than… I have just always felt like I need to work for what I get, I suppose, which isn’t a rule you necessarily should have to apply to a relationship at least in the way that I do.

Enough for now. Thanks to anyone still reading

[kml]

I feel you. I used to think I’d want to hear that kind of apology, but now I would dread it. I wouldn’t have him back on a silver platter, and I’m pretty sure, if any apology was forthcoming, it would be couched in the most narcissistic terms.

I do love the irony of her cheating on him. And although a part of me wishes my ex could experience the pain of being cheated on himself, I actually hope his current wife sticks with him. She wasn’t an affair partner (thank god) and I’m hoping she will care for my ex in his old age so my kids don’t have to.

I’m glad his note didn’t make you spiral. True detachment is a great thing!

[TJT]

Thanks K! Yes, and you’re exactly right about the narcissism. I coincidentally just saw a quote myself that said never try to defend yourself against a narcissist… they already know you’re right and just want to watch you go crazy trying to prove it. He did that plenty when all this was going down, don’t care to do any of it again. The one thing he is completely right about is that he has to live with his consequences, and whether or not he fully realizes what that means at this moment, he’s gonna find out.

I’m glad in your case you are hopeful for your ex’s wife. Also doubly glad I never had kids with XH. I continue to feel bad for his son (from his first wife) though. What a wreck example of a good man he’s getting.