R2C - You inspired me to reach out to a buddy of mine that rides off road in motorcycles. I think soon I’ll head out to his farm and ride. I’ve never done that before. We’ll see where that goes.
You will have a blast.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Context: Prior to the separation, we had talked about having Christmas at my house. We had not talked about it at all, and then this email exchange occurred over the last week. We had told the kids at the separation that we would celebrate Christmas together.
First Email from STBX:
We need to talk about Christmas at some point. I didn't book a flight cuz of the COVID exposure and I really don't think it's the best decision right now. I don't want them to have to quarantine again and they are still advising not getting together with extended family. I plan to ask the kids about it this weekend. If we don't go, I would like to use my week with the kids at some point to go visit my parents when COVID is under control whether that is spring break or this summer. With that being said, the plan was to try and spend Christmas eve and Christmas Day together, the four of us correct? We need to discuss what that looks like. Gifts - I have bought some stuff and was thinking we were giving gifts together this year so I will create a spreadsheet of what I have bought and we can discuss. Are you planning on getting gifts just from you? I think we should be consistent on this.
My response: You are correct on Christmas eve and day. The office is empty and if you would like to bring over your blow up mattress, we could do that or you can sleep in daughters bunk or son's bed. I’ll plan meals.
If you create a spreadsheet of gifts and who they are from I can wrap on 12/23. I believe the Santa paper is at my house. I can’t remember who gets which color. I am not planning on giving gifts just from me, I am planning on them being from us. What were you thinking in terms of the flow for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day?
STBXW Response back: I talked to the kids about going to my parents. Son didn't give me much and said he didn't care if we went or not. Daughter, without me giving my opinion, said she didn't think we should go because she doesn't want to expose Grampy and she doesn't want to quarantine again. This is obviously a very difficult decision for me. If it wasn't for COVID, we would be going. You didn't respond if I could move my week with my parents to spring break or this summer. If I don't use my week at Xmas, do I lose it? Also, the kids mentioned you are planning some snowboarding trips. I guess I am confused because I thought we were taking COVID pretty seriously and maybe we need to talk about what that looks like. If you are going to be traveling with the kids it makes it hard for me to do the "right" thing by not traveling to my parents for Xmas.
As for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day...why is it assumed it is at your house? Are you thinking Christmas eve Mass, dinner, Christmas morning open presents and breakfast? Then what? I looked up Mass times Christmas Eve: 3 pm and 5:30 pm.
I would like to be able to wrap the presents. Can I come over when you aren't there and just wrap them in the basement? Or can you put them in the garage and I will come get them and bring them back here to wrap? Yes, the Santa paper is there.
Thoughts on my response? I did want to try and give the kids a "normal" as possible Christmas with the whole family. And again, initially she said we would do this at my house - if I go back to her with anything that looks like me making the decision or influencing the decision she will chalk it up to me "gaslighting" and manipulating her again.
Leave the gifts in the basement. Don't over analyze this situation. She's working hard not to be around you. So allow her not to be around as much as possible.
Originally Posted by ScottB
I did want to try and give the kids a "normal" as possible Christmas with the whole family. And again, initially she said we would do this at my house.
Key word above is what, "I" wanted. You wanted but she don't. You have to accept that. Stop worrying about how she will chalk it up. Do what's best for you and your kids. I don't hurt anyone to allow her to wrap the gifts at her house. It's a chance for her to start feeling what X-mas is like without your around.
And does she have a point on your bringing the kids snowboarding? Are you ok with you taking them snowboarding and her not taking them to her parents?
My response back would be.
"X-mas should and will be as stress free as possible for the kids. I thought we determined it would be over here, but if you feel different please let me know. If we decided to have it here, what you presented for X-mas eve and X-mas is perfectly fine. Christmas eve Mass, dinner, Christmas morning open presents and breakfast. INSERT the after that part.......
I will leave the presents in the Garage for you with the wrapping paper, or if, it's better for you, you can use the basement."
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Scott, I know this was the agreement, but I don't like it. She seems to be very reluctant about all of this, and she also seems to want to dictate the terms. However, since you did agree to a joint Christmas it would also be bad for you to go back on your word. You are between a rock and a hard place, and this is why agreements like this can come back to haunt you. In the run up to the discussion with the kids, when the idea of Christmas came up you should have punted. "That is a long way off, and a lot can happen between now and then. Let's discuss closer to Christmas." This would have allowed you the wiggle room, to when she started to get difficult, to just pull the plug and say "I think we should do Christmas separate."
Likely you jumped at the idea of joint Christmas as much for your own sake (if you are being completely honest) as you did for the kids sake. I am not questioning your motives, I am simply stating that her being agreeable to one last Christmas together was probably something you deep down wanted (we've all been there), even though it probably was not the best choice to make.
Now you are locked into the "why is it assumed it is at your house?" negotiation. Likely she is pushing this to try to get out of the "sleeping under the same roof" idea you floated. If she can get it at her place, likely you will wait until the kids are in bed, help setup gifts, then go home to sleep to arrive early the next morning. I mean, personally I wouldn't want to sleep at my W's new bachelorette pad.
This is your chance to be assertive.
"I think the kids would enjoy Christmas more in the home they already are familiar with and most comfortable in. Also, it makes the logistics much easier as far as sleeping arrangements. I feel this is the best decision."
"As far as which mass, here is my opinion. 3pm will make it easier to then get dinner, and get the kids down for the night. We can then setup the gifts and settle in for the night."
"If you would prefer wrapping the gifts there I am okay with that. We can work on the logistics later. I will put the gifts and the paper in the garage as you have suggested."
You are still too worried about what she thinks. "she will chalk it up to me "gaslighting" and manipulating her again." WHO GIVES A CRAP WHAT SHE CHALKS IT UP TOO??? Stop focusing on her, her feelings. She is not your responsibility anymore, remember? She fired you as her H! Stop trying to act like you still have that job.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I would not enter into a discussion about whether you should go snowboarding--you do what you think is best during your custody period." Of course, consider if it's safe and legal to go, and use the tools available to you to keep your kids as safe as possible (e.g., social distancing, masks, testing).
If I understand correctly, she negotiated a specific week of custody, and now she wants to change it. Note her wording, skipping the trip would "lose her time". If this was a fair deal where she got X time and you got Y time, I'd probably work with her, "Yes, we only agreed to this date. What alternate date(s) did you have in mind?" If this was an unfair deal where you gifted her time, I wouldn't be so generous. "Yes, we only agreed to this date. I am open to an exchange of weeks in the future when the timing works for both of us."
Spending Christmas together sounds awkward. Not too late to abort? If you go ahead, treat it like any negotiation. Say what you want. Listen to what she wants. Find middle ground or take turns getting your way.
We need to talk about Christmas at some point. I didn't book a flight cuz of the COVID exposure and I really don't think it's the best decision right now. I don't want them to have to quarantine again and they are still advising not getting together with extended family. I plan to ask the kids about it this weekend. If we don't go, I would like to use my week with the kids at some point to go visit my parents when COVID is under control whether that is spring break or this summer. With that being said, the plan was to try and spend Christmas eve and Christmas Day together, the four of us correct? We need to discuss what that looks like. Gifts - I have bought some stuff and was thinking we were giving gifts together this year so I will create a spreadsheet of what I have bought and we can discuss. Are you planning on getting gifts just from you? I think we should be consistent on this.
I know you already responded. This is how I would have responded:
H:"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes I have no problem with them going at a later date. I have bought some gifts as well. If you really think we should do this together, I am fine with the gifts being from both of us this year. How long do you think we should plan being together?"
Quote
STBXW Response back: I talked to the kids about going to my parents. Son didn't give me much and said he didn't care if we went or not. Daughter, without me giving my opinion, said she didn't think we should go because she doesn't want to expose Grampy and she doesn't want to quarantine again. This is obviously a very difficult decision for me. If it wasn't for COVID, we would be going. You didn't respond if I could move my week with my parents to spring break or this summer. If I don't use my week at Xmas, do I lose it? Also, the kids mentioned you are planning some snowboarding trips. I guess I am confused because I thought we were taking COVID pretty seriously and maybe we need to talk about what that looks like. If you are going to be traveling with the kids it makes it hard for me to do the "right" thing by not traveling to my parents for Xmas.
As for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day...why is it assumed it is at your house? Are you thinking Christmas eve Mass, dinner, Christmas morning open presents and breakfast? Then what? I looked up Mass times Christmas Eve: 3 pm and 5:30 pm.
I would like to be able to wrap the presents. Can I come over when you aren't there and just wrap them in the basement? Or can you put them in the garage and I will come get them and bring them back here to wrap? Yes, the Santa paper is there.
H:"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes I have no problem with them going at a later date. I will put the requested items in the garage when I get home. Lets attend the 5:30PM mass. Would you prefer to stay here or come over early in the morning?"
See how I answer the most important question first and the way I stated it. I am assuming the kids are sleeping at your house. If that is wrong, there may be a better way to address where the event is happening.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
We need to talk about Christmas at some point. I didn't book a flight cuz of the COVID exposure and I really don't think it's the best decision right now. I don't want them to have to quarantine again and they are still advising not getting together with extended family. I plan to ask the kids about it this weekend. If we don't go, I would like to use my week with the kids at some point to go visit my parents when COVID is under control whether that is spring break or this summer. With that being said, the plan was to try and spend Christmas eve and Christmas Day together, the four of us correct? We need to discuss what that looks like. Gifts - I have bought some stuff and was thinking we were giving gifts together this year so I will create a spreadsheet of what I have bought and we can discuss. Are you planning on getting gifts just from you? I think we should be consistent on this.
I know you already responded. This is how I would have responded:
H:"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes I have no problem with them going at a later date. I have bought some gifts as well. If you really think we should do this together, I am fine with the gifts being from both of us this year. How long do you think we should plan being together?"
Quote
STBXW Response back: I talked to the kids about going to my parents. Son didn't give me much and said he didn't care if we went or not. Daughter, without me giving my opinion, said she didn't think we should go because she doesn't want to expose Grampy and she doesn't want to quarantine again. This is obviously a very difficult decision for me. If it wasn't for COVID, we would be going. You didn't respond if I could move my week with my parents to spring break or this summer. If I don't use my week at Xmas, do I lose it? Also, the kids mentioned you are planning some snowboarding trips. I guess I am confused because I thought we were taking COVID pretty seriously and maybe we need to talk about what that looks like. If you are going to be traveling with the kids it makes it hard for me to do the "right" thing by not traveling to my parents for Xmas.
As for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day...why is it assumed it is at your house? Are you thinking Christmas eve Mass, dinner, Christmas morning open presents and breakfast? Then what? I looked up Mass times Christmas Eve: 3 pm and 5:30 pm.
I would like to be able to wrap the presents. Can I come over when you aren't there and just wrap them in the basement? Or can you put them in the garage and I will come get them and bring them back here to wrap? Yes, the Santa paper is there.
H:"I believe it is important for our kids to see your parents, so yes I have no problem with them going at a later date. I will put the requested items in the garage when I get home. Lets attend the 5:30PM mass. Would you prefer to stay here or come over early in the morning?"
See how I answer the most important question first and the way I stated it. I am assuming the kids are sleeping at your house. If that is wrong, there may be a better way to address where the event is happening.
This is good. The only correction is that maybe the last part is a little passive-aggressive. Since she already called out assuming they are staying at Scott's place, I think he need to deal with that head on. Give the reasons you think it is better, let her try to counter, but ignoring it and continuing to "assume" that is settled might not go over well. And it isn't that you care that it upsets her, it is just that you are trying to broker a compromise here, defuse things, just so it is easier for you Scott! Her emotions are hers and you have no control over them.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
This is good. The only correction is that maybe the last part is a little passive-aggressive. Since she already called out assuming they are staying at Scott's place, I think he need to deal with that head on. Give the reasons you think it is better, let her try to counter, but ignoring it and continuing to "assume" that is settled might not go over well. And it isn't that you care that it upsets her, it is just that you are trying to broker a compromise here, defuse things, just so it is easier for you Scott! Her emotions are hers and you have no control over them.
Doing this for 10 years, I learned one topic per email thread worked best. Most of the time I would initiate them, otherwise mother would bring up 12 topics to discuss. In this case, she started multiple topics in one thread. kill off the important ones and/or the easier ones first.
This leaves the logistics of the two of you spending time together which is the most contentious part of this.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
