Reading through the threads and articles here has been extremely helpful and enlightening. I know at the core of it, my situation isn’t different from anyone else’s. I’m a LBH trying to piece his life back together. But I do think there are some nuances that I haven’t come across reading through some of the other threads so I thought I’d share my story to see if I can get any feedback or ideas.
Background - married 13 years and been together for 15 and we have 3 kids (7, 10, 13). The marriage wasn’t all rainbows and unicorns, but we were a helluva team. We operated on another level together and really were best friends. About 3 years ago she started having health issues - lethargy, weight gain, racing heart, etc. After about 6 months of ongoing tests she was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, but in an atypical way that didn’t respond to regular treatments. It also caused her to almost completely lose her libido. Being on meds didn’t help with many symptoms and to this day she is still battling to get answers. During this time, especially the beginning, I took on most of the parenting duties. I already cooked all the meals, but now I was tasked with taking kids to soccer practices, events, doctor’s appointments, trips, etc. because she wasn’t able to do it. My love language being acts of service, I felt like I was 100% showing her how much I loved her because I did everything. It was around this time I started getting depressed, but I never told her because I didn’t feel like it would be right to add that to her plate of things to deal with. I figured I’d be able to gut it out.
As the years went on, she started getting her meds dialed in and was able to “rejoin” the family on a regular basis. I started taking antidepressants which helped numb the lows, but also numbed the highs. I still felt like I was showing how much I loved her because of all my acts of service. Looking back, it didn’t matter how many acts I performed because she needed the emotional attachment, the words of affirmation and quality time. I had too much resentment built up to provide that. I was also so depressed that even if I wasn’t resentful I don’t know that I would’ve been able to provide her what she needed.
Fast forward to August and I find out she’s having an EA with a friend from when she was in high school. He’s married and has kids too. She says it isn’t about wanting to be with him or anything like that, just that I wasn’t there for her and he was and since he was around back when she was going through some hard times, he could relate. We move on from there and agree to marriage counseling (her idea).
We go a month and realize things still aren’t working. She suggests and I agree to a trial separation, but not a “traditional” one. We get a studio in town that we share. One person has the kids, the other has the studio. The idea is to work on ourselves and see if we can figure things out. In talking with our counselor I get the ILYBNILWY bomb. However, at this point I’ve started seeing my own therapist and am on different meds and am showing signs of “coming back to life” and she says that while she was almost completely out the door, seeing me come back has her thinking otherwise and that there might be some hope.
We start the separation and it really didn’t seem that bad to begin with. We still have Sunday dinners with the family, we still sleep in the same bed when we’re both at the house, we still have sex (her libido is now back, of course) and things seem good all things considered. When I am at the studio I meditate, work out, read books, and try to do as much as I can to improve myself and she sees the changes and comments on how good I’m looking. She also comments on how she can see how I am being more open and vulnerable with her and how she appreciates it. So I’ve got my rose colored glasses on and let my guard down. Last Tuesday we’re talking and she casually tells me she’s signed up for dating sites and asks if I would want to know if she went on a date with someone. That she doesn’t want to know if I go on a date unless she asks. I’m floored. Gutted. I lose my cool and she reminds me we said that even though the separation wasn’t about seeing other people we (she) did say we wouldn’t be exclusive because she didn’t want to feel tied down.
We again move on, although I now sign up for a dating site out of spite (cuz that’ll show her!!) but I realize I have no real desire to be on there and even if I did it wouldn’t be healthy for me or fair to anyone I ended up meeting. She also tells me she isn’t still on there (not sure I believe that one) and that she wasn’t looking for a hookup just to find people to talk to. Now we’re still “good” and when we’re together we tend to be close. Went to cut down a Xmas tree with the kids, decorated the house, and all that good stuff. When she’s at the studio though, things are different. She admits to not being able to work on herself and that she’s being self destructive. She sends texts asking if she should get a nose ring. She is trying to track down the man who raped her 30 years ago. She’s all over the place.
But I also start to realize how dependent I am on her for my happiness. I wait for her texts. I wonder what she’s doing when she’s at the studio. I look at Facebook to see what she’s posting. It’s constant. And brutal. Which makes me realize that I have to detach if I’m going to survive this, which is how I ended up on this site. Reading through the posts, especially Sandi2’s threads, I start seeing all the red flags. The manipulation. Being plan B (there have been nights where she’s called at midnight wanting me to come over). Of her having her cake and eating it too because I enable it. All of it.
At this point my goal is to detach and continue to GAL. I also need to figure out if I really want to fight for this marriage or if I’m just fighting for it to avoid the inevitable pain. Problem is, I can’t determine which emotion I’m feeling at any given moment is “real” and which is anger, hope, resentment, or love. And that’s frustrating as hell. So hopefully I can use this as a place to go instead of doing stupid things that I’ll regret tomorrow.
If you made it this far, thanks for reading my novel!
So you are in a tough spot right now. Seems like your W is going through something but hasn’t completely written you off. So do you sit and wait to see if she finds better or do you take away that option?
I will warn you that based on what you wrote sounds like your w went is going through something that may take awhile to get through.
Great job on working on yourself. Eventually you will be so far ahead you will not have any desire to look back.
You have some decisions to make for sure. You didn’t mention ages but I’m guessing the good old 40s lol.
Welcome aboard Saltydog I recommend you fasten your seatbelt because you are in for a rough ride.
Hey Salty, sorry that you are going through this tough time. Whilst our situations are identical, there are some things that do resonate with me. It sounds like you’ve come earlier than I did. Read the rules, listen to the advice, even when you don’t want to, it will help.
I too used acts of service to show my love but what was needed was words of affirmation and quality time. My W, could not for the life of her see how the nice things I did was me showing her love.
I’m no vet here, but I do know that so far what has helped, is not deciding whether you want her back or not, but accepting that what you had is gone and the rest is out of your control. Work on what you can control...yourself, it will be the best investment you make.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
SaltyDog, welcome to the site. Sorry you are going through this but there are many good posters here that can help.
Obviously when you start introducing health issues that affect things, as well as meds (hers not being right, and you being on ADs) then that is another variable that can cause issues. I am glad to see you are in IC and on different meds, but I am hoping that you will eventually be off of all ADs with therapy. (I have a personal belief that too many people are immediately put on meds instead of going to IC to deal with their depression.) I think that is a great step.
Salty, your sitch reminds me a bit of mine. Without the studio and nesting. I am not a big fan of nesting. I think it confuses the kids, it becomes a new normal, and then there is the whole issue that the WAS is the one wanting to leave, why would the LBS leave even for 50% of the time? I advise LBSs that are considering agreeing to this NOT to.
You probably agreed to it out of trying to nice her back. In fact, that is a theme that seems to be running throughout your post. Playing family. Thinking things are getting better because you sleep together, have sex, being more vulnerable with her. All of that is in the category of "nicing" her back. You cannot nice her back. And you've learned this the hard way with the dating site thing.
Here is the thing, I had a very good advisor early in my sitch give me this simple truth. WAWs do not need their own place to find themselves or work on the marriage. They need their own place to sleep with other people. Despite all of the family stuff and normal times, the elephant in the room is that she still goes to the studio, and expects you to when it is your turn. That is NOT normal. So no matter if the normal times are 50% of the time. or 75%, or even 90%. The time she is at the studio or expects you to be is the more important signal here.
But the reason you are confused is because you are dealing with an emotional creature that, right now, doesn't know what she wants. This was another big learning in my sitch. From minute to minute my WAW didn't know what she wanted. One minute she wanted to stay, the next to go. Your WAW is likely dealing with the similar feelings.
So what can you do? Obviously you need to detach. Getting out of the obsessive "checking up on her" will be a huge benefit to you. If you are that way when she is away, I doubt if you aren't that way when she is around. And she feels that pressure and pursuit from you. It is probably palpable. So detaching, backing off, giving her time and space is the best first step. Remember, the goal here is to remove ALL pressure and pursuit.
Second I would end the nesting. "I have thought about it and this isn't working. I think we should update the studio to a full apartment, and you should move there 100%. I will stay at the house. And we will work up a custody schedule." I have never seen nesting work. And if you do end up D'd you won't be nesting anymore. So I would rip that bandaid off.
Third, stop letting her cake eat. She is involved in an EA (I doubt it is over). She is advertising herself on dating sites (I think your reaction to her telling you this made her later say she was off of them.) She is wanting her own time and space at the studio, but then having you as her consolation prize (calling at midnight) and coming over to play family when she wants to. Ending the nesting will likely help with this, but you really need to study what it means when a WAW cake eats. If you haven't read DB/DR, get DR and read it.
Fourth, start going out and GAL. GAL is so important. It is much less likely to obsess over what she is doing when you are out GAL. GAL shows you that your life is going to be just fine no matter what she decides. GAL well helps you with the detachment process. There are no negatives to going out and GAL!
And then keep working on you. IC. Working on 180s. Becoming the best Saltydog that you can possibly be. That will set you up well for what comes next, whether she decides to stay or go!
Salty, the above is not easy. I understand that. It is easier to type it than to actually act on it. But this is what I think you need to do to start moving forward, start moving on, and to start living YOUR life again, not living a life being her plan B hoping she picks you.
Keep posting!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Wow - thank you for all the responses! I got 7 minutes before a meeting but will try and respond a bit now.
Originally Posted by LH19
SD,
So you are in a tough spot right now. Seems like your W is going through something but hasn’t completely written you off. So do you sit and wait to see if she finds better or do you take away that option?
Yup. And how do I protect myself in the meantime while I figure out which to choose?
Originally Posted by LH19
I will warn you that based on what you wrote sounds like your w went is going through something that may take awhile to get through.
I think you're right, and know I won't make it if I keep feeling like I do now on a day to day basis. It's exhausting. I guess the trick is figuring out how to not let it get to you while at the same time not building up resentment to the point where I'm the one who is gonna want to walk away.
Originally Posted by LH19
You have some decisions to make for sure. You didn’t mention ages but I’m guessing the good old 40s lol.
So you are in a tough spot right now. Seems like your W is going through something but hasn’t completely written you off. So do you sit and wait to see if she finds better or do you take away that option? [/quote]Yup. And how do I protect myself in the meantime while I figure out which to choose?
Originally Posted by LH19
I will warn you that based on what you wrote sounds like your w went is going through something that may take awhile to get through.
I think you're right, and know I won't make it if I keep feeling like I do now on a day to day basis. It's exhausting. I guess the trick is figuring out how to not let it get to you while at the same time not building up resentment to the point where I'm the one who is gonna want to walk away.
Originally Posted by LH19
You have some decisions to make for sure. You didn’t mention ages but I’m guessing the good old 40s lol.
Only for a few more years, lol![/quote]
Unfortunately, the hardest thing for you right now is to realize there's *nothing* you can actively do that will change what she's going to do. Nothing.
You need to accept that, process it, surrender to it. That is the hardest part of all of this, the situation, in terms of what she does, cannot be changed by you. It's too late for that now.
If you want to reconcile, you're in a waiting game, and the only course of action that leads to reconciliation, IMO, is emotional distance and not actively trying to fix *anything* between you because that ship has sailed.
You need to focus on you, being the best man you can be, and taking your attention 100% off of her. Do not be her friend, do not be her safety net, do not engage with her at all beyond the minimum you can manage to co-parent. That's it. Try to get her out of the house as soon as possible, co-habitation will make things worse.
Does that sound like horrible advice? Is it scary? Are you convinced that certainly it doesn't apply to you?
That's all normal. Everyone feels like their situation is unique, and there must be some answer, some solution they just haven't discovered that is within their control. There isn't. You don't have an option that doesn't suck. You have to pick the least sucky option of all the sucky options you have and learn to accept that. The option that [censored] the least is protecting yourself by giving yourself emotional space.
Distance from her emotionally, but be happy, upbeat, successful and positive on your own. Fake it until you make it. That is quite literally all you can do, and that, my friend, is a very bitter pill to swallow.
Although it's impossible for you to see at the time, this is 100% survivable no matter how it goes. I've been happier divorced than I was for years being married. I 100% believe in marriage, and I miss the feeling and comfort of "being married" but I do not miss my ex at all, and her behavior should not have been tolerated for as long as it was. At the time I couldn't see it, I thought she was the most wonderful woman ever, and that certainly I could fix this. I was wrong on both counts.
This is the value of hind sight, and unfortunately for most people, you can't absorb it until you're ready.
But I do think there are some nuances that I haven’t come across reading through some of the other threads so I thought I’d share my story to see if I can get any feedback or ideas.
I didn't really read anything that stuck out as being different about your sitch, unless you mean the nesting arrangement? That's not that unusual.
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During this time, especially the beginning, I took on most of the parenting duties. I already cooked all the meals, but now I was tasked with taking kids to soccer practices, events, doctor’s appointments, trips, etc. because she wasn’t able to do it. My love language being acts of service, I felt like I was 100% showing her how much I loved her because I did everything.
Ironically it was probably having the opposite effect and making you less attractive to her. All of those things are beta activities. Beta isn't a bad thing, but alpha is what women are attracted to. Beta is boring! Alpha is exciting. You've got to strike a balance between the two to keep the interest levels up. Like so many of us you went full beta thinking it was helpful to her. And it was, but she likely was no longer attracted to you as a man. You became a helpful roommate.
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She says it isn’t about wanting to be with him or anything like that, just that I wasn’t there for her and he was and since he was around back when she was going through some hard times, he could relate.
I would say she's being mostly honest there. It usually does start out that way, the WAS loses the emotional connection and seeks it elsewhere. However, that doesn't mean she JUST wanted someone to talk to. She may imply or even tell you that, but don't believe it. You are now Plan B and she is actively pursuing a Plan A. She will do things to keep you on as Plan B, like throw you a bone now and then, have sex or whatever. You'll likely find this confusing because you -think- those are positive signs. But right here and right now, she is full steam ahead on replacing you. The sooner you realize that and start acting accordingly, the better.
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The idea is to work on ourselves and see if we can figure things out.
That's just WAS script. Like Steve said, the REAL idea is to have a place to have sex with someone else.
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seeing me come back has her thinking otherwise and that there might be some hope.
More script. Interpretation- "I want you to stay on as Plan B until I see how Plan A goes."
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Last Tuesday we’re talking and she casually tells me she’s signed up for dating sites and asks if I would want to know if she went on a date with someone. That she doesn’t want to know if I go on a date unless she asks. I’m floored. Gutted. I lose my cool and she reminds me we said that even though the separation wasn’t about seeing other people we (she) did say we wouldn’t be exclusive because she didn’t want to feel tied down.
I get why you're gutted. You are hanging onto some threads of hope and misinterpreting her signals as meaning she may have changed her mind, and now you know she hasn't.
So where do you go from here?
Detach. Let her go. Accept that NO MATTER WHAT bread crumbs she may throw you, the marriage is OVER for now. That's not to say there's no chance of recon, but that is way down the road. And to get there, first you have to let her go and pursue your own, independent life. Remake yourself into "the spouse only a fool would leave". Stand for your M, but don't pursue your M. Give her time and space.
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But I also start to realize how dependent I am on her for my happiness. I wait for her texts. I wonder what she’s doing when she’s at the studio. I look at Facebook to see what she’s posting. It’s constant. And brutal. Which makes me realize that I have to detach if I’m going to survive this, which is how I ended up on this site.
Yes that is perfectly normal, and yes you do have to detach for your own sanity. It's not as simple as flipping a switch (oh if only it were!!!) It happens slowly over time. You detach in phases. Be patient! Just understand things are not going to magically "go back to normal", that ship has sailed. All the snooping will only make you miserable, so start by trying to shut all that down. Don't "unfriend" her on FB, but "mute" her profile so you don't see her posts when you log in. Quit checking her profile. Don't snoop in her phone or anything like that, take it from me, you're more likely to be confused by what you see then to learn anything useful. It'll just leave you spinning even worse.
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At this point my goal is to detach and continue to GAL. I also need to figure out if I really want to fight for this marriage or if I’m just fighting for it to avoid the inevitable pain.
We all resist change! I was married 20 years so I get it! You just want life to "go back to normal". It won't though, you've got to establish your "new normal". It's a grueling process but you can do it!
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Problem is, I can’t determine which emotion I’m feeling at any given moment is “real” and which is anger, hope, resentment, or love.
Read, read and read some more! It sounds like you've read DB/ DR and possibly The 5 Love Languages as well. Also check out The Happiness Trap (it will help you understand your feelings are ALL legitimate, own them!), the Married Man Sex Life Primer (great book on alpha vs. beta behavior) and No More Mister Nice Guy.
Hey Salty, sorry that you are going through this tough time. Whilst our situations are identical, there are some things that do resonate with me.
I read through your thread and was going to comment on how similar some of our current situations are! Best of luck to you man.
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
I too used acts of service to show my love but what was needed was words of affirmation and quality time. My W, could not for the life of her see how the nice things I did was me showing her love.
Oh boy, can I identify with this. I think lately as we've tried to work on things she can now at least see I was trying (before she thought I just didn't care at all which blows me away!) but it still doesn't fulfill any of her needs knowing I was trying. It was like trying to get an unleaded car to run on diesel - doesn't matter how much you fill the tank up, it ain't gonna work.
Originally Posted by OnlyBent
I’m no vet here, but I do know that so far what has helped, is not deciding whether you want her back or not, but accepting that what you had is gone and the rest is out of your control.
SaltyDog, welcome to the site. Sorry you are going through this but there are many good posters here that can help.
Thank you! And I agree - the posters here do a helluva job. quote=Steve85]Obviously when you start introducing health issues that affect things, as well as meds (hers not being right, and you being on ADs) then that is another variable that can cause issues. I am glad to see you are in IC and on different meds, but I am hoping that you will eventually be off of all ADs with therapy. (I have a personal belief that too many people are immediately put on meds instead of going to IC to deal with their depression.) I think that is a great step. [/quote]The meds are definitely something I gotta figure out. Switching over to Wellbutrin from Lexapro has been quite a change. I'm still not sure if it is right for me but I basically went from not really feeling anything to feeling EVERYTHING at a level 10! I've cried more in the last month than I have in the last 20 years. The last time I cried before this was 2 years ago after getting my blue belt in jiu-jitsu. Learning to "feel" feelings again is a strange experience.
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I am not a big fan of nesting. I think it confuses the kids, it becomes a new normal, and then there is the whole issue that the WAS is the one wanting to leave, why would the LBS leave even for 50% of the time? I advise LBSs that are considering agreeing to this NOT to.
I totally hear you and what others have said about the nesting. It is a struggle and I am not sure how I'm going to handle it. Right now I'm at the studio and have been all week and the problem I have is I ENJOY being here. It gives me the space I need to do my own thing and not be interrupted 100x a day. I love my kids and I love doing things with them, but with Covid and working from home while they are going to school from home, it makes for a stressful situation where I don't feel like I have the time or space to work on me. While I'm here I can blow off steam, take a break, read a book for 2 hours without being interrupted. So as much as I hate it when she's here (knowing what you've all said) I also don't want to give up my time here.
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In fact, that is a theme that seems to be running throughout your post. Playing family. Thinking things are getting better because you sleep together, have sex, being more vulnerable with her. All of that is in the category of "nicing" her back. You cannot nice her back. And you've learned this the hard way with the dating site thing.
Definitely coming to this same conclusion. It's a hard habit to break.
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Getting out of the obsessive "checking up on her" will be a huge benefit to you. If you are that way when she is away, I doubt if you aren't that way when she is around. And she feels that pressure and pursuit from you. It is probably palpable. So detaching, backing off, giving her time and space is the best first step. Remember, the goal here is to remove ALL pressure and pursuit.
I've started putting this into effect (no proactive messaging and only responding to things that need to be tended to and already seeing an increase in her messaging and her tone.
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Fourth, start going out and GAL. GAL is so important. It is much less likely to obsess over what she is doing when you are out GAL. GAL shows you that your life is going to be just fine no matter what she decides. GAL well helps you with the detachment process. There are no negatives to going out and GAL!
Totally agree, now if we can get that stupid global pandemic taken care of I'd have a lot more options! lol.
