My dad's older than you, 71. But my parents have been in this book club since I was in high school. We always used to tease my dad because he'd be racing to finish whatever book on the day of the book club and was always rolling his eyeballs at the selections.
OK, I will work on a book for you with a female protagonist that you might like. And, the fact that it has been since high school... this would be a really great 180 for you! Why not? If I were you, I'd think about switching out every other book so that you read one thing you know you'll love and then alternate with something that will stretch you. You and my H have similar taste in books on the history side at least (though he won't read science fiction). Do you like Jon Krakauer? Maybe try Missoula, which I think anyone with daughters in college should read.
If not a book with your daughters, maybe a movie, their choice, and discuss it afterwards? Or digging in more to what they're learning about in college?
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Hi Tom, OK, I will work on a book for you with a female protagonist that you might like. And, the fact that it has been since high school... this would be a really great 180 for you!
I'm game, although my daughters will wonder who recommended the book ... but now that I mull this over, we usually ask what each other is reading and when I tell them, if they recognize it is not in my traditional wheelhouse, they will ask why. That will be a good teachable moment for me to reply that I'm trying to broaden myself as part of Dad 2.0, which includes reading books with female protagonists. And, I realize I led you slightly astray, one of my daughters is not a reader. The other one is a voracious reader. Getting the three of us to read the same book would probably not work.
Originally Posted by may22
If I were you, I'd think about switching out every other book so that you read one thing you know you'll love and then alternate with something that will stretch you ... Do you like Jon Krakauer? Maybe try Missoula, which I think anyone with daughters in college should read.
Luv Krakauer ... you just reminded me I never finished "Into Thin Air."
How about that book about the woman who walked the Pacific Crest Trail? Looks like it's called "Wild." I've always been an avid hiker and backpacker and I know the movie was pretty popular. That might be the movie idea, by the way.
How about that book about the woman who walked the Pacific Crest Trail? Looks like it's called "Wild." I've always been an avid hiker and backpacker and I know the movie was pretty popular. That might be the movie idea, by the way.
Cheryl Strayd. It's a great book about starting over and the PCT. The film was entertaining, too, although if you're an avid backpacker you'll doubtless spot errors, exaggerations, and stereotypes.
I'm into mountaineering--done my fair share of hikes and backpacks.
You never finished Into Thin Air?? Heresy. I'll be quiet until you go back and finish that one.
I haven't read Wild but my H did and liked it.
Just finished Sunday evening with the (adult) kids. I was chef but instead of grilling I made vegan mac-n-cheese. Daughters were thrilled. I don't want to imply that this being vulnerable stuff is easy, but the decisions are simple yet the impression made is lasting. It also didn't hurt that I mentioned a "forum I belong to" where my new friends and I discuss this stuff.
At the risk of a may22 tongue-lashing I will proceed with reading Wild. Both girls are home through early January so it will provide some conversation topics. There is some outdoor time planned, too.
What is currently working for me and my lady is we put the other persons needs before our own.
Originally Posted by Steve85
This has to be a two way street though. That's the only way it will work.
It is also carefully negotiated. My lady does the dishes. I brush the snow off the cars. I let her know I was fine doing both of these things together as a team if that is what she wanted. She decided it was better that we each tackle these task separately. The dogs have an accident in the house. She picks up the mess, I steam clean the carpet.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
On to another of my 180s, on my list. We've been sort of handling empathy and vulnerability together over the last 50 comments, yet maybe I should bring up another one now: Respect, especially mutual respect.
There is no doubt that there had been a dearth of respect, in either direction, by the time my STBXW walked out. I had been beaten down by the personal fights I was having (lawsuits, mentioned earlier) and I believe in my heart that she had difficulty respecting this man, her husband, who didn't convey strength, especially in times of adversity. In a sense, I can't blame her -- I was always the one who took on the hard challenges. Countless times, whether it was her getting laid off when she was pregnant (yes, that stuff still happened in 1995) or getting her through planning her parents' funerals. She had married me because I projected strength, projected confidence and vision, and here I was not projecting such. I couldn't earn money while I fought off the lawsuits, so the financial impact was twofold -- no income coming in, and money going out to pay for lawyers. An older, far more traditional friend of mine, in his late 70s, quickly guessed that this might have been part or all of the problem. Another friend said that financial issues are the cause of 50% of divorces, according to surveys. [But that doesn't seem to be the case for DBers here on the forum.]
But the lack of respect went the other way, too. Guilty as charged. The SSM began within months after we came back from our honeymoon. Now, looking back, I can see that -- if our marriage was ultimately doomed -- it began back then. I did the love languages thing recently and three were almost tied for first -- 30% was touch and tied at 28% were words of affirmation and quality time. So now I can see that perhaps the seeds of the demise of the marriage began back then. She was indifferent to, and at times afraid of, sex. Me, on the other hand, I am a classic romantic who loves romance, sensuality and the physicality of sex. We muddled through of course, had 3 children in 6 years, and created a family and a home. Yet, we didn't communicate well most of the time, and didn't share a lot. Oh, we worked on things and sometimes it got better, but the physical side was always controlled by her and she rationed it. Big time. So I was both love, affection, and sex-starved. It took me awhile to realize but that was why I was testy all the time, too. She thought she was being a good spouse by raising three polite and respectful children and keeping a clean house with food in the pantry. She was so far from the formula for me.
So how does a couple go so long when they are so completely in denial about what the other one needs? Sigh.
Anyway, she didn't respect me for probably the past 12 years. I can see the signs, looking back. I probably disrespected her for even longer. Thinking back, I can even recall a few times when she asked me to come grocery shopping with her just to keep her company, and I would grumble "not unless it's a big grocery run and you need another hand. There's a football game I want to watch." It was stupid of me, to be sure, but it was my automatic reply to her pushing my hand away, the night before, when I got home from a 5-day business trip and only wanted to immerse myself into my family and have some intimate time with her. I recall many other times when I would arrange "Dad fun" outings with the kids just to get away from the house, because it was tense. Almost to prove to her that while she might be frosty, the kids adored me.
So ... above is some of the history. But how do you ensure it doesn't happen again? What do I need to do, as 180s, to be sure I never disrespect my future dates, and future mate? What do I do to ensure that she doesn't fall into that trap?
Tom (or Tommy :D), something that I read on a blog of someone I really respect (but not sure if the rules allow me to point to it or not) is that we should make it our job to learn about our significant other. When I wanted to learn Spanish, I really threw myself into it, when I wanted to become a good squash player I devoted hours to practice. Not once can I say I put the same effort into getting to know my wife, really getting to know her. Sure, I was a pretty good husband, did lots of thoughtful things, spent plenty of time with her, did my share around the house, but I can't say I ever invested in her the same amount of effort that I did with other pursuits. Not because I'm a jerk, but I just didn't know that relationships needed this. I was taught that if you choose the right person it just takes care of itself.
It's great that you are owning your half of the neglect/lack of respect. My STBXW has done some horrible things to me over the last 6 months, not that this absolves her of her behaviour, but I have to ask myself if these things would have happened if I had known how to be in a relationship.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
Btw, the Tommy thing is a joke, and I wouldn't take offense from LH for saying it. If you look at his responses to everyone, he does something similar.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
I think what happened in your marriage (sexual desire gap) is very common, and I think it's a source of problems in a lot of marriages. Quite frankly, I don't think most men (myself included) handle it very well. I don't have advice for you--as I'm not sure if I've really learned how to deal with it. There are a lot of resources available though. I'll just give you my background and say I can relate.
I had a couple of serious girlfriends before my XW. One had good sexual desire. We started the relationship out by having sex almost every day. That lasted for awhile. At the end of the 1 1/2 year relationship, it was still at every other day. The other girl had strong sexual desire--might have been even more than me. She had to have sex every day. Some days it was four times/day.
My XW was different. We started off having sex about 3 days/week. It didn't take too long (a couple of years) before it fell to 1-2 times/week. After our daughters were born, it could be 2-3 times one week and then 2-3 weeks before sex again. She controlled it. That actually messed with my head, but I thought we handled it pretty well. We came to an agreement that we would consistently have sex 1-2 times/week. It was a number we were both okay with. I think she realized how important consistent intimacy was to me.
My current GF is more sexual than my XW, but she doesn't wear me out. When I asked her how much sex is ideal for her, she said every other day. At 50, I'm perfectly content with that. That number has remained consistent from about 3 months into the relationship (we had our initial love bombing of sex every day) until now. We've been dating 16 months.
Have I learned anything? Yes and no. I know how much it can strain a relationship, so I'm much more cognizant of not pouting when my GF isn't in the mood. If she isn't, I try to show her that she is loved--without worrying if it's going to end in sex. Then again, we don't go long stretches without it, so maybe she's just a lot more sexually compatible with me.
Most men feel love through sex. No matter what the woman says, if there isn't consistent intimacy, the man doesn't feel loved. Most women need to feel loved to have/want sex.
