Most men feel love through sex. No matter what the woman says, if there isn't consistent intimacy, the man doesn't feel loved. Most women need to feel loved to have/want sex.
I think Steve85 has mentioned this before, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Did she not want sex because she didn't feel loved? Did he not make her feel loved because they didn't have sex. Like Steve, I know I withdrew emotionally and was sometimes moody because of the lack of intimacy. Would I have been this way if the sex didn't dry up? I'll never know...In the end, it doesn't matter now.
I was never allowed to talk about our SSM, when I did once to a friend and my W found out, she flew into a fit of rage and threatened divorce, saying her privacy had been breached. I told a friend recently, and he said, I wish you had told me, I would have implored you to do something about it and if nothing changed then to leave. I know now that I will never let things like this go again. I thought I was being a good guy by not pressuring and being understanding, but that's classic MNG behaviour.
Me: 41 W:42 T: 14 M: 11 S: 6
"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
Most men feel love through sex. No matter what the woman says, if there isn't consistent intimacy, the man doesn't feel loved. Most women need to feel loved to have/want sex.
Good insight and not something talked about much. There is a variant of that, and I'm risking the ire of some women perhaps, but it goes like this. "Men use love to get sex, women use sex to get love." Now before the fire alarms go off, let me say that the point is worth pondering. Not all women and men of course. But maybe applicable in a lot of situations. And how does a couple work through that?
It's great that you are owning your half of the neglect/lack of respect. My STBXW has done some horrible things to me over the last 6 months, not that this absolves her of her behaviour, but I have to ask myself if these things would have happened if I had known how to be in a relationship.
This brings up an interesting point. I expect that all of us respect the other one in a new relationship. For we men, we cherish what she likes and try to honor her wishes; it comes the other way, too.
But perhaps where we fail is in maintaining that respect. We get lax. We get self-centered. We might be an outdoors person, while she likes museums. So in the giddy first couple years, we go to the museums. But maybe we fall into the MNG trap, she stops reciprocating, so at some point we stop asking and we rebel and stop going to museums. We start doing the outdoor stuff with buddies, and she does museums with girlfriends. Frostiness in the relationship sets in, both people refuse to compromise, maybe the relationship starts sliding into SSM territory, They couple muddles through for years, but then the breaking point comes with a divorce. There are a lot of ways to write this script. I am guessing that it is all too common.
Back when the ex and I were preparing for our wedding, we had routine counseling by a pastor. He gave some advice that has probably been standard advice for hundreds of years. It was:
"Don't start disliking each other for the very things that brought you together."
It made no sense back then, but now at my age it makes a ton of sense. Maybe, for example, a woman was drawn to him because she grew up in a dour household and he always made her laugh. So, twenty years later, she gets furious because he's not as serious as she wants him to be when, say, preparing for a family milestone. On the flip side -- he was attracted to her because he's the silent type, and she is gregarious, and she is so charming a conversationalist. Twenty years later, his frustration boils over because he thinks she talks too much.
I think both of these examples show respect waning over time. And it also shows how people can be so dense that they don't realize, while it takes two to tango, in their own head they are making subconscious decisions, in small ways, to sabotage the relationship each day. By denying respect for who he/she is. By not honoring his/her inborn character. And by not sacrificing, as each did early in the relationship, to keep the other one happy.
I was never allowed to talk about our SSM, when I did once to a friend and my W found out, she flew into a fit of rage and threatened divorce, saying her privacy had been breached.
I agree with both camps here. When you're young you can't possibly imagine having sexual issues with your beautiful spouse; so when it does happen you don't know where to turn. You don't want to confess failure in the most intimate yet elementary part of the relationship. Yet, incredibly, it's an extremely common outcome!
That's exactly how I felt in the first few months after our honeymoon. It was before the days of google and the internet; now you can find out that most marriages are sex-starved, but back then you would feel so alone. You're starving for affection, you go out on the street and see happy couples of all ages and you imagine that you are the only one suffering.
You were correct in reaching out to a friend. Your ex, on the other hand, was correct in getting angry. Yet ...
You needed to pick a better friend to confide in! Clearly, it was the kind of friend who believes "a secret is something you only tell one other person at a time, in whispers." You were betrayed, as you well know now.
My brother-in-law lost it one time with me ... had a quick outburst about his own SSM with my ex's older (and favorite) sister. If I had breathed a word about it to my ex at the time it would have turned into a 5-alarm fire in the family. These things are very very touchy.
Also, your ex is at fault. After she got her mad out, she should have realized that you must have been pushed to the limit to betray her privacy, and that maybe she should have spent some time looking inside herself.
[quote=may22](would also suggest reading novels from the POV of someone unlike yourself)
If I have to stop reading sci-fi and history and start reading self-improvement books I might have to commit hari-kari ... !
I'm almost afraid to ask for recommendations ...
Anything by Brene Brown is worth trying. I'd say Daring Greatly is a good start, she digs into the whole idea of the Catch-22 of men showing vulnerability and how to overcome it.
Quote
What Brown also discovered in the course of her research is that, contrary to her early assumptions, men's shame is not primarily inflicted by other men. Instead, it is the women in their lives who tend to be repelled when men show the chinks in their armor.
"Most women pledge allegiance to this idea that women can explore their emotions, break down, fall apart—and it's healthy," Brown said. "But guys are not allowed to fall apart." Ironically, she explained, men are often pressured to open up and talk about their feelings, and they are criticized for being emotionally walled-off; but if they get too real, they are met with revulsion. She recalled the first time she realized that she had been complicit in the shaming: "Holy [censored]!" she said. "I am the patriarchy!"
SaltyDog, Brenee Brown is AMAZING, and a great choice if Tom wants to break out of his comfort zone. Tom, the whole topic is how to be vulnerable and she has a chapter addressing common objections.
SaltyDog, Brenee Brown is AMAZING, and a great choice if Tom wants to break out of his comfort zone. Tom, the whole topic is how to be vulnerable and she has a chapter addressing common objections.
My W is a huge fan and got me to read some. I will say it was helpful and probably at least slowed her down a bit when she saw me being more vulnerable. However, it isn't easy toeing that line because it is tempting to go from vulnerable to needy or to close back up because it is uncomfortable. It's also a bit difficult at times with DBing because the two seem to be at odds in certain situations. But as far as helping yourself GAL, she is well worth checking out.
"Men use love to get sex, women use sex to get love."
I am intrigued by this comment.
Read carefully, it wasn't my invention, it is an old adage that provided a perspective on what onlybent had said moments earlier. Put out there for comment by people with insight.
And I don't believe for a minute you were intrigued, you are back to your old tricks again.
Originally Posted by LH19
So Tom I know you don't want me here
Yes, verbal bombthrowers are not my preference. Contributors are welcome.
"Men use love to get sex, women use sex to get love."
So Tom I know you don't want me here but I am intrigued by this comment. So for clarification purposes are you saying the following?
Men will promise woman love if they have sex with them? Kinda like that song "Paradise by the dashboard Lights"?
A women uses her Vagina to get love? It has nothing to do with her personality, mind or successfulness?
Could it all be possible that sex is a result of mutual attraction, respect and fondness of one another where there is no bartering involved?
Just clarifying.
It's just an old adage that I've heard from several quarters. Put out there for comment by people with insight.
I think this line is true, but not an absolute. I would qualify it thusly:
"Troubled men use love to get sex, damaged women use sex to get love."
I think we've all witnessed this or seen examples of this, but it isn't normal or healthy. And it certainly is not universal. IE it isn't ALL men and ALL women. I know I was weird because while I wanted sex, I never wanted it just to have it. I had to care about the girl and have feelings for her. And I certainly met women that tried to use sex as a way to get a man to love her. But there was something in their past that was telling them that the other things LH mentioned, for them, were not good enough. They were good enough, and that they had to put out to get a man to love them.
If you think about it, that is very sad. Men lying and manipulating just to get into a woman's pants. And a women with such low self-esteem that she feels she has to do that to make the guy like her. So unhealthy...................
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
