SaltyDog, Brenee Brown is AMAZING, and a great choice if Tom wants to break out of his comfort zone. Tom, the whole topic is how to be vulnerable and she has a chapter addressing common objections.
Well now this is one heckuva recommendation. Exactly what I was looking for. I think I will put "Daring Greatly" on my short list. But I already have a few reading assignments from May22 so unless she gives me a pass I have to carry out her wishes first.
Originally Posted by SaltyDog
I'd say Daring Greatly is a good start, she digs into the whole idea of the Catch-22 of men showing vulnerability and how to overcome it.
Now, I'm not sure I know what to do with this, however. A highly recommended female author explores the Catch-22 of being vulnerable (good) but then tells us how to overcome being vulnerable (bad?). Or does she tell us how to balance what I originally was looking for help on -- how to be vulnerable but not being perceived of as a wimp? Help!
Most men feel love through sex. No matter what the woman says, if there isn't consistent intimacy, the man doesn't feel loved. Most women need to feel loved to have/want sex.
Good insight and not something talked about much. There is a variant of that, and I'm risking the ire of some women perhaps, but it goes like this. "Men use love to get sex, women use sex to get love." [b]Now before the fire alarms go off, let me say that the point is worth pondering. Not all women and men of course. But maybe applicable in a lot of situations. And how does a couple work through that?
Sounds like you stand by it. I'm not judging you I was seeking clarification. Tom I just don't happen to agree with you.
I think this line is true, but not an absolute. I would qualify it thusly:
"Troubled men use love to get sex, damaged women use sex to get love."
I think we've all witnessed this or seen examples of this, but it isn't normal or healthy. And it certainly is not universal. IE it isn't ALL men and ALL women. I know I was weird because while I wanted sex, I never wanted it just to have it. I had to care about the girl and have feelings for her. And I certainly met women that tried to use sex as a way to get a man to love her. But there was something in their past that was telling them that the other things LH mentioned, for them, were not good enough. They were good enough, and that they had to put out to get a man to love them.
If you think about it, that is very sad. Men lying and manipulating just to get into a woman's pants. And a women with such low self-esteem that she feels she has to do that to make the guy like her. So unhealthy...................
Read carefully, Steve, it mostly restates what onlybent says in the prior comment. To me at least, onlybent implies that men and women will, as a general rule, approach sex differently. I'd heard that comment before and it is quite similar. I don't think that adage is meant to be cynical. I don't have a personal response that generalizes, all I know is my experience for the past 32 years with my ex.
When the first thing you say to someone who challenges your previous comment is “read carefully”, it comes across as dismissive and condescending. You’re implying that we haven’t cared enough to try and understand what you’ve posted. But we do understand, we just disagree. Maybe drop that phrase and ask why we came to that conclusion, or if you’re not interested in our POV, simply say “I hadn’t thought about it from that angle”.
A woman needs to feel connected to a man want to have sex and a man needs to have sex to feel connected to a woman.
THIS is what I've said that OB is referencing.
Certainly there are men that use love to get sex. And women that use sex to get love. But that is abnormal.
I agree. Apparently Tom does not.
You couldn't possibly be more wrong. But you continue to throw bombs, LH19, so let's go back to before. Please refrain from commenting here anymore. And that is as empathetic as I can say it.
Brene Brown is great. She has some great TED talks too if you want a quick intro. Also, given the conversation on this thread on the relationship between love, sex, and desire, I'd recommend Esther Perel's Mating in Captivity. (She also has a couple of TED talks.)
And read what you like! I'm not in charge of your reading list! You are!
Finally, I'm going to make a recommendation-- maybe it would be helpful to stay away, for a time, from blanket statements or generalities, even if they're couched with some bits of wiggle room (heard from someone else, in some situations, etc.). I actually believe that one of the things that having strong empathy and respect for individuals will give you is that while we all share the same human experience-- and there are so many things that can bring us together-- there are also so many many different ways that different people approach the world. This diversity is a beautiful thing.
Taking the time to understand what it is that makes one person tick in a slightly different way from the next person is empathetic and respectful. Every human being wants to be known for who they are. I think when you start dating again, rather than assuming that a 50 year old woman is looking for X or Y, or will behave in a certain way because you heard it somewhere that most women of that age do whatever... throw that all away. Take the time to be genuinely curious and learn what it is that piques her interest, what she loves, what she dislikes-- museums or sporting events or a good book. And when the time is right to get to know each other intimately, take the time to understand her here as well-- what turns her on, what turns her off, how does she like to be touched, how context matters. And be open with her about your needs and desires as well. LISTEN to her, both what she says verbally and what her non-verbal cues tell you... and then respect what she says.
Just my two cents.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
When the first thing you say to someone who challenges your previous comment is “read carefully”, it comes across as dismissive and condescending. You’re implying that we haven’t cared enough to try and understand what you’ve posted. But we do understand, we just disagree. Maybe drop that phrase and ask why we came to that conclusion, or if you’re not interested in our POV, simply say “I hadn’t thought about it from that angle”.
Empathy.
Roger, Scout. But I am a bit touchy about this now. If I reply to someone else's comment about sex, the ire comes at me, not at the one who originally made it! Also, I did not imply what Steve said. I even qualified my comment! I was asking for perspective. So, please, empathy (and careful reading) both ways? To me, high EQ would be carefully considering my words, not jumping all over them without careful deliberation.
Also, there are those who only weigh in here when they can find something to criticize. Can I request empathy from them as well? Maybe a positive or affirming comment once in awhile? Surely empathy runs in both directions?
