I'm sure you've grown in other areas. I recall you have a list? Consider adding this! If I recall correctly your ex-wife asked for therapy, indicated communication was a problem, and now won't talk to you. Make listening a habit, so it's easy even on a hard day after your honeymoon period with Sally.
Thank you and this is excellent advice I took to heart, in fact many months ago.
One of the things I learned (therapy has helped a lot here) is that respect is so central to all relationships, and is even more central than communication, only because if you live a life of respect then communication almost becomes automatic!
We are all guilty of not listening actively, especially when our spouse, SO, or close friend is talking too long about something that is not of interest to us. Sure, we might claim to respect that spouse, but if we really REALLY respected them we would actively listen not when it's important to us, but when it's important to them. Especially then.
I've been working on this actively with Sally. Sometimes I even take notes. Usually it's about those friends of hers that I can't meet because of covid, or something about her mother or family. If the topic comes up a month later, and I remember itsy bitsy details that everyone else forgets, I get a wonderful reaction -- "Tom, you remember that? Thank you!'
To me at least, communication problems are often the result of putting up walls, or being unreachable, or not caring enough. If I can respect those I love enough to care about what they care about, and try to be consistently good at it, then I think I have taken a big first step.
My ex would have called me a terrible communicator. She would be right, although we had both fallen into this pattern. But here we are with a broken marriage, and Tom 2.0 is doing his darndest, as if he were a teenager, to show more respect and through that be a better listener and communicator.
You are correct, and you aren't alone. Many men are poor at listening and empathizing. (We do have our strengths.) I think A LOT of men struggle with this in relationships. Two guys can sit around watching a game all night and barely talk or listen to each other, and neither feels the worse for wear.
My #1 goal after my divorce was to improve in this area. It doesn't come naturally. About a month ago I realized I was starting to fall back into old habits with my GF, and I've been determined not to backslide since. I'm glad to hear that you are actively working on this.
I'll just note that you lied here to people who were truly trying to help you, for months. You talked about "sampling the wares" which was disgusting enough thinking you were lonely and trying to heal, but now knowing you were in a new relationship at that point it really is awful. (No, I don't care enough to go back and figure out exactly what it is you said, so I'll probably get that wrong and you can ding me for misquoting you.)
Maybe I've missed it (again, not going to scour your posts to confirm) but I don't recall you ever apologizing for this breach of trust to any of us here. Like any good book, not all parts of the story need be told in chapter 1? Honestly. You have an incredibly high opinion of yourself and your story, Tom. And continue to seem to think that everyone here is supposed to be serving you.
I think it was pretty $hitty of you to lie to everyone here. Also, $hitty not to apologize when you decided to come clean for deceiving all of us for months. You're snarky and mean to many posters. If you're really thinking about communication, know that the content of communication, not just listening more actively or not putting up walls, is pretty important too.
Don't worry, I'll loiter elsewhere after this.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
When you came here you seemed dumbfounded why your W left you and never spoke to you again. I took time out of my day and went through your thread to show you exactly why. Instead of thanking me you acted like a dic and tried to ban me from your thread.
Again consider yourself lucky she waited for your kids to grow and did not leave you for another man. Good luck with your sequel “When Tom met Sally”.
Tom, I wish you and Sally nothing but the best and hope for happiness for you two. I sincerely do. There are always exceptions, and maybe you'll be. But in general, in the vast majority of cases, starting a new R when you have unresolved feelings and business with a previous person will end poorly. That is why dating before coming to closure with the MR that is ending is not encouraged. We've talked before about the statistics regarding 2nd and 3rd marriages, and I think a big reason for those statistics is people jumping right into something new too quickly.
Steve, you have hit the nail on the head. So I'd ask that you please continue engaging with me and the others here to see if I am mended well enough. Ask the tough questions, I respect your opinion!
I'll say this for now -- Sally and I were both pretty wounded when we reconnected last year. Her marriage didn't end by divorce, but there was a lot of pain and conflict during her 30 years with her husband. Since reconnecting we have walked two steps forward, one step backward, and sometimes staggered to the side. But I'll say this -- it has been a joy to have walked alongside her as we both recovered. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that any fellow can work on himself (or vice versa) without have someone close at his side -- not necessarily a romantic someone, but someone nonetheless. I have been open and raw with her about my failings, more so than even here.
In fact, the three pillars of my recovery have been my therapist, Sally, and DB. But not necessarily in that order. I have to be careful during my hour each week with my therapist -- to not spend the entire time talking about what I learn on DB!
Originally Posted by Steve85
Tom, it is your life. Don't let strangers on the internet "sting" you. Maybe you'll be the exception, and it isn't like you don't have history with Sally. But for her sake you need to be honest with yourself. What would you tell Sally if your W wanted to R? What would you do?
I could spend hours on this answer. But the short version is this. If my ex said, "I've withdrawn my divorce petition, I want to explore counseling and therapy and take some time seeing whether we could stay together" I would not go running into her arms. I've pondered this from two perspectives -- with Sally in the picture, and with her not in the picture -- and both ways come to that same conclusion.
Would I talk to her? Yes. I've been waiting for that for nearly 18 months now. Would it be painful? Heck yes. Would Sally be impacted? Of course, she would be in tears, she remembers my choice 30 years ago. Could reconnecting with my ex, through therapy or some other way, change my views, make me want to reconcile? Always possible, any new relationship or reconnection impacts current relationships. But I didn't give my heart away easily 30 years ago, and I didn't do it easily last year to Sally. The contrasts between she and my ex are even more dramatic now, so are the connections that Sally and I have, mostly communication that I never had with my ex.
You are correct, and you aren't alone. Many men are poor at listening and empathizing. (We do have our strengths.) I think A LOT of men struggle with this in relationships. Two guys can sit around watching a game all night and barely talk or listen to each other, and neither feels the worse for wear.
My #1 goal after my divorce was to improve in this area. It doesn't come naturally. About a month ago I realized I was starting to fall back into old habits with my GF, and I've been determined not to backslide since. I'm glad to hear that you are actively working on this.
Harvey, you are right!
Here's my example from this week (I'm at Sally's house now). I've been hearing about her parents now for months, but have been unable to meet them because of covid. But yesterday were were both going through pictures and I asked to see some videoclips of her parents. So I finally got to hear her mom's voice, from a recent Christmas. It was a beautiful voice. It was a loving and sweet voice. It made her mom come more alive. And you know something? Just asking to see the videoclips was important to Sally, along with the compliments about her mom. Sometimes we have to let instinct guide us.
Suggestion -- do you know about your GF's relatives and friends? If you don't, since it's still winter, find some rainy or cold day and spend the entire afternoon going through pictures and learning about them. Take notes. Remember where Uncle Jim and Aunt Betty went to college, the city they live in, that funny story about them. Listen actively when she tells you the name of her best from childhood, and where she is now, and details about her. This is not only good communication but it is also respect, as I've learned. My therapist said that among everything else, respect is about "accepting someone's influence on your life." I still ponder what this means but it most certainly includes letting her life have a big impact on how you think, how you behave, what interests you, and what things you think about, e.g., her friends and family.
