As I read through the forums on Divorce Busting, I like to grab the nuggets of gold and share.
My advise, commit to personal growth. What you judge in others, you condemn in yourself. Take all the focus off of your spouse and address your own issues. How hard is it to change your own behavior? Now think how hard (almost impossible) to change someone else.
If you have kids, commit to being the best parent ever. Frequent and equal contact with both parents is important. You are responsible for your relationship with your kids. Let your spouse be responsible for their relationship with the kids. Learn new ways of parenting. Lots of great books out there. Most of the relationship skills dealing with spouse will also help in parenting.
Set goals for the future and keep taking steps to get there. Do this in all areas (SPIES - Social, Physical, Intellectual, Emotional, Spiritual.) Get in alignment (Beliefs, Thoughts, Body Language, Tones, Words, Actions) with your core values.
Try new ways of interacting. Read about boundaries and learn how to set and enforce them. Be in the present. Let go of the past and do not fear the future. Learn ways of being more attractive, especially in your behavior. Learn ways of being seductive (indirectly attracting). This is an extremely important set of skills to understand.
The best way to respond to a particular event? Initially, the best action to take is no action. Do your homework here. Do not react emotionally. Stay neutral. Seek wise council here. Evaluate all the different options and the possible outcomes of each. Challenge your current beliefs. Make a choice and live with the consequences, good or bad. Things are predictable. Read and read and read. Get mentally ahead of your spouse in the whole process ASAP, they are ahead right now.
As far as your spouse, until you have enough info to prove this wrong, assume there is another person (Hint: This is your first 180). Do not reveal anything about what you know and how you found out. "We both know that is a lie." is a great way to deal with any deception.
I wish everyone well during these difficult times. Remember that everything will be OK no matter what the WAS chooses.
My typical posting style is very brief, and I can tell from things you have said to me and about me that that comes across to you as not supportive. So I'm going to try to use what feels to me like way too many words, because I think there is something important you are not seeing and that seeing it would be valuable to you.
You seem to have learned a lot about yourself and what you need to feel loved. That's important, and that can be hard work. But I don't see you putting yourself in your wife's shoes and looking at it from her perspective. You talk about what *you* needed when you came home from a 5-day business trip and how you were hurt by her rejecting your advances. What do you think your return felt like from her perspective? You said her love language is gifts of service. What would have felt loving to her in that moment?
I know business travel can be exhausting, but so can being the person staying home and taking care of the kids. The person traveling might have jet lag, but they probably also had someone cleaning their hotel room. They probably got to go out to eat at restaurants and choose from a variety of food options, none of which they had to cook or clean up after. Meanwhile, the person at home doesn't have jet lag or the hassles of travel, but also has to cook, clean, do laundry, and take care of kids. The level of effort varies depending on the ages and numbers and personalities of the kids, but even easy-going teenagers take energy and time. And toddlers are flat out exhausting. Did you try to meet her needs before you sought to get yours met?
Or let's take another situation. Your wife went to work when one of your kids went to college, right? What changes did you make the household and family responsibilities when she started earning money? Who cooked, cleaned, grocery shopped, kept track of the kids' schedules and needs, bought holiday presents, decorated the house, organized parties, made doctor appointments for kids, took the kids to the appointments, ditto for pets, etc., etc.? Are you familiar with the phrase "emotional labor"? If not, google it and think about how the emotional labor was divided in your marriage.
The core truth of Divorce Busting is that when one spouse changes their behavior, without waiting for their spouse to change first, the marriage can improve.
I know it's tempting to say, "but she (or he) isn't meeting my needs!" And that can be a true statement. And it's hurtful. But I know when I say, "yes, that's true, but what can I do to be a better spouse" my relationship improves and my spouse starts meeting my needs. When I focus on the ways in which he isn't meeting my needs and use that to justify not doing the things I know make him feel loved, then my marriage worsens, and my needs aren't met.
I honestly feel like this is the single most important thing to take away from DB. Meet your partner's needs, even if they aren't meeting yours. (Disclaimer: excluding abusive or toxic relationships, of course.)
Most likely, one of your spouses current needs is time and space away from you. Meet this need even if you do not understand or agree with it.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
If you're ever wondering about the accuracy or the validity of the advice you receive on here, let me tell you....the purpose of these boards is to learn from those who have experience what you are going through. In some instances you will learn the right course of action because of what has worked for some. A lot of the time, you will see what not to do because of someone here.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I had a call with my DB coach and he had a couple of things to point out - more life stuff than saving the marriage stuff, but I think the marriage is a good way to learn about life.
He said if I was generous, that's fine, and If I don't want to be fine, but don't be generous and then complain about it - that's not fine. I thought that was good feedback.
He said I need to forgive regularly and not to carry bitterness and resentment into MY days - because resentment only punishes me.
On our call I mentioned that I didn't give a carp about what she thought in regards to taking the kids on trips. He said that in regards to that the pendulum was swinging too far in the wrong direction. He said the perspective I need to have is to think "I care what you think, but I am going to do what I think is right." The key being not to surrender my agency.
He said that if I let bitterness and resentment take hold that will impact me and my future relationships.
He seemed to think I was doing a good job and mentioned that if there was ever a reconciliation, it wouldn't be reconciling the old relationship. He said it would be reconciling who I am becoming with who she is becoming.
He mentioned that in marriages sometime we sacrifice for love, but sometimes we sacrifice too much and that's what I had done. So I need to learn that lesson for the future.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
First I wanted to say that I've found the best posts on here are the ones that trigger my defensiveness. Thank you for nudging me out of my comfort zone.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
And it occurs to me that you are merely taking the steps laid out before you here, without really understanding fully the "whys" of what you are doing, or being asked to do.
And that is totally normal for the stage that you are in...
When I say that this is a "process" , I mean that you may not understand why LH wants you to do this, or Steve asks you to do that.
When I asked you the questions above, your answer last week will NOT be the same answer that you might give a few months from now.
Rarely in these situations, does an ultimatum work. Typically it will "push" the WAS out the door faster.
Usually with a WAS, nothing that you say or do will have an effect on them, yet everything that you say an do WILL have an effect on them. Make sense ? yeah, probably not.
I see guys come on here, and struggle with doing this or doing that. Trying to talk their way out of something that they acted their way into. Thinking that if they just apologize, then things will be all right, and they can just get back to life as they once knew it.
They think that magically, their situation is somewhat different than all of the rest of them here. Hell, I thought that too.
If I just explain a little harder, or one more apology, or if I just wash the dishes tonight, of take out the trash one more time.....then things will turn around for us...
It doesn't work that way.
I would always ask, what exactly are you apologizing for ?
To truly apologize, one has to be able to fully understand what they are apologizing for...
To what depths have your previous actions cut her??
How sharp were your words ???
How shallow were your actions ??
All of that ^^^^ is for YOU Dawg....
Nobody else gets to participate in the rebuilding of YOU....
No of that should be done for "her" , or the "marriage"....that is for you....
So, take some time, work on you...
Get lost in yourself.
Stop worrying about every little interaction that you have with her. Shine when it's time, heal when there is time, and understand that this thing is "bigger" than you, her , or the marriage right now....
Talk less Act more
She fired you from your job as her husband......treat it that way....
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, a time to reap that which is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; A time to gain that which is to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; A time of love, and a time of hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
So....
What is YOUR plan for the holidays ????
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
You can't snap her out of the fog, but you CAN "keep the way home paved and smooth". What does that mean, well it means treat her with kindness and respect even when she doesn't do the same for you. It means let her go and go about your life while leaving the door open to a future with her.
Sometimes you'll hear folks here say to treat the WAS like you would a casual neighbor. You might chat with them but you're not going to share your innermost secrets, or spend hours and hours hanging out with them. You'll make some small talk and then excuse yourself to go do something else that is none of their business.
Don't shrug anything off. Listen and validate. "I hear you saying you feel I've been distant and ignoring you, I'm sorry I've made you feel this way, this is something I will work on." Giving her time and space doesn't mean shutting her out completely. It's fine to keep lines of communication open, and to be friendly and polite when you do talk. The whole "going dark" thing is really a last resort technique for people who are being abused by their WAS, or people that just cannot let go and detach. It's to save the LBS, not the M.
Again, don't turn it into an R talk, just listen and validate. "I hear you saying you don't feel I'm being vulnerable enough, I can understand why you would say that." Note that you're not AGREEING with her, you're merely acknowledging her feelings. Because even if you think her feelings are wrong or misplaced, they ARE her feelings and ALL feelings are valid to the person experiencing them.
"Ultimatums" are a terrible idea. First of all, they never go like the LBS hopes they will. Second of all, the LBS rarely goes through with the threat, so it makes them look even more wimpy and indecisive. You may THINK you are fine with option 2, but I think if you're honest with yourself what you are hoping is that she'll be so afraid of option 2 that she will agree to option 1. But she WILL NOT! She's more likely to go on a tirade and tell you what a controlling, manipulative jerk you are and that she will never ever in a zillion years want to be with you again. So then what do you do? You either do nothing which makes you look powerless, or you push S through yourself which is YOU doing all the work for HER. It's a lose-lose situation for you. What you SHOULD do is.... yeah this will come as no surprise... DETACH! Leave her alone! Give her time and space. Let HER make the decisions about the R. And if she doesn't make any decisions? MORE time and space!
Always remember this- you can't NICE her back.... and you can't MEAN her back.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
So my question then is how do I let her know that some of the things we previously agreed to (family dinners) are no longer on the table if she's on dating sites?
Originally Posted by LH19
W what we originally agreed to is no longer working for me.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
This is just another WAS excuse for not wanting to get back together. "We'll never be able to fix this because you don't do A, B, C and D". It's WAS script, moving targets. You do A, B, C and D and then suddenly it's E, F, G and H that are deal-killers for her.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
