I have a question that I don't believe has been asked here.
Shortly after BD, WW told me I should start dating and that she hopes I'll find happiness with someone else. This was definitely not what I wanted to do. I wanted to save the marriage,
Do WWs say this to make themselves feel better about what they are doing?
For the WW to tell the LBH that he should date, is like giving a hurt kid some toy to distract him from his pain.
Some will tell the LBH to date, as a way of convincing him that she's really over the M and won't consider reconciliation, and she wants to move on. In other words, it's a way to get LBH off her back. Some WW's think if the LBH dates, it will take some of the pressure off her reputation as the bad guy that tore up the family. Yes, I suppose there are a few WW's who feel some degree of guilt and see the LBH dating as a way of releasing that guilt.
Here's the thing, I don't think most WW's feel the degree of guilt that you would assume she'd have. B/c you are thinking from a logical & moral point of reference, and people who lie, betray, deceive, cheat, and tear apart families should be eaten up with guilt. Right? Feeling guilt is pretty shallow while she's in the affair. She doesn't feel shame. It's not regret. It's not remorse. And if she feels any of these, it's to a low degree. Remember, her heart has hardened and she is not the girl she once was (in most cases). She feels justified, b/c it's time for "her happiness". How can you feel guilt and justification at the same time? Another thing to consider is the drug-like excitement she gets from the "forbidden" love affair. It's strong enough to smother her previous code of conduct, morals, religious teachings, family values, etc.
There are different levels or depths of waywardness........b/c every person is not exactly alike. Although the stories we read here sound somewhat similar and the behavior of the WW often sound as if they have read the same playbook...... the individual woman with her baggage of negativity; resentment and disrespect for her H; her background; family of origin; and her personality traits can influence the depths she will go when acting out in rebellion. If anger/rage is a big part of her rebellion, then she's going to be mean, and do spiteful and outrageous things to hurt the LBH. On the other hand, I feel there are many WW's who don't set out to see how badly they can hurt their LBH. That's not their goal or focus. They don't have an affair just to hurt the LBH. (That's getting into another area or depth, which is more about vengeance.) Of course, there are some WW's that become focused on making their H's life miserable, but often, there are other factors in her personality or the sitch that's leading them. For the usual or common WW, it's all about her fantasy.
So, will she ever feel remorse for what she's done? I believe when reality slaps her in the face and the fantasy collapses, her eyes will open. I won't say that remorse hits every single WW, b/c they have to feel deep regret and sorrow for the pain they inflicted on their loved ones.......most of all, their LBH. Some WW's are just too hardened and too stubborn to be humbled.
I hope this post doesn't sound like a word salad.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for that response. I really appreciated what you have to say and you added some more info that I had not considered before.
I agree with both of your statements and feel that WW harbors both viewpoints. She did want to let me know she was done and I think the idea of me moving on as quickly as she did lessens her guilt. I think she feels if people know drh2001 has moved on and started dating, he couldn't have loved his wife to begin with.
I haven't started looking elsewhere. I have three teen daughters who are virtual learning and I'm remote learning and spend my day putting out small fires and making sure they wake up on time and don't cut class. I think that because I haven't moved on as quickly as WW wanted me to, it probably frustrates the heck out of her.
Have I thought about moving on? Absolutely. Do I want to? I don't know. Still working on myself and doing 180s and about to do the LRT technique. I still harbor a fantasy about reconciliation.
My WW is not acting out of vengeance to hurt me, She wants to live her fantasy of having a better life without me and with someone who makes her feel good about herself, which right now OM is doing.
She know what she's doing is "considered" morally wrong - I use the word "considered" in terms of how others would consider her actions and behavior, because not long ago she would have considered her outrageous behavior morally wrong - so she paints a false narrative of taking the kids and leaving me a long time ago because it's more acceptable to her that people believe this false narrative rather than the awful truth that she had been living with me and the kids in the marital home for almost a year while being in an A with OM.
I have a question that I don't believe has been asked here.
Shortly after BD, WW told me I should start dating and that she hopes I'll find happiness with someone else. This was definitely not what I wanted to do. I wanted to save the marriage,
Do WWs say this to make themselves feel better about what they are doing?
Yep thats what my WW said after a week apart - that i should be over her by now and i should be looking to date again?
Yep thats what my WW said after a week apart - that i should be over her by now and i should be looking to date again?
Her statement shows how irrationally she's thinking. She is operating from her emotions.
I think a mistake LBH'S make is in how they respond to the WW encouraging them to date. Most of what I've seen, is the H trying to tell her he's not interested in dating and prefers to save the M. Actually, this is not what he should say to his WW. This is not a clue for the LBH to defend his personal beliefs, or whatever. If he's smart, he won't let her know what he's thinking/feeling either way. That's part of the mystery that makes her wonder what he's really going to do. No matter if she encourages him to date, she will be jealous of any woman who might replace her. Ironic, I know, but that's part of the craziness.
The LBH should remain stoic whenever his WW talks about what he should or shouldn't do. Don't try to give all the moral/religious reasons for not dating before you're D. And guys, please don't tell her how you took the wedding vows seriously! I promise you, it has no positive effect on her. Too many LBH's try to pass along some kind of message, a truth dart, or DB point he read on the board. He is hoping something said will penetrate her thick head. If anything, it has a negative effect, b/c he sounds a little bit self-righteous and/or preachy. She may be acting crazy, but she's not stupid. She knows her H, and she knows these new things he's saying comes from a book or something. I can't tell you how much she resents those type comments. You gain no ground by saying these type things.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I have a question that I don't believe has been asked here.
Shortly after BD, WW told me I should start dating and that she hopes I'll find happiness with someone else. This was definitely not what I wanted to do. I wanted to save the marriage,
Do WWs say this to make themselves feel better about what they are doing?
For the WW to tell the LBH that he should date, is like giving a hurt kid some toy to distract him from his pain.
Some will tell the LBH to date, as a way of convincing him that she's really over the M and won't consider reconciliation, and she wants to move on. In other words, it's a way to get LBH off her back. Some WW's think if the LBH dates, it will take some of the pressure off her reputation as the bad guy that tore up the family. Yes, I suppose there are a few WW's who feel some degree of guilt and see the LBH dating as a way of releasing that guilt.
Here's the thing, I don't think most WW's feel the degree of guilt that you would assume she'd have. B/c you are thinking from a logical & moral point of reference, and people who lie, betray, deceive, cheat, and tear apart families should be eaten up with guilt. Right? Feeling guilt is pretty shallow while she's in the affair. She doesn't feel shame. It's not regret. It's not remorse. And if she feels any of these, it's to a low degree. Remember, her heart has hardened and she is not the girl she once was (in most cases). She feels justified, b/c it's time for "her happiness". How can you feel guilt and justification at the same time? Another thing to consider is the drug-like excitement she gets from the "forbidden" love affair. It's strong enough to smother her previous code of conduct, morals, religious teachings, family values, etc.
There are different levels or depths of waywardness........b/c every person is not exactly alike. Although the stories we read here sound somewhat similar and the behavior of the WW often sound as if they have read the same playbook...... the individual woman with her baggage of negativity; resentment and disrespect for her H; her background; family of origin; and her personality traits can influence the depths she will go when acting out in rebellion. If anger/rage is a big part of her rebellion, then she's going to be mean, and do spiteful and outrageous things to hurt the LBH. On the other hand, I feel there are many WW's who don't set out to see how badly they can hurt their LBH. That's not their goal or focus. They don't have an affair just to hurt the LBH. (That's getting into another area or depth, which is more about vengeance.) Of course, there are some WW's that become focused on making their H's life miserable, but often, there are other factors in her personality or the sitch that's leading them. For the usual or common WW, it's all about her fantasy.
So, will she ever feel remorse for what she's done? I believe when reality slaps her in the face and the fantasy collapses, her eyes will open. I won't say that remorse hits every single WW, b/c they have to feel deep regret and sorrow for the pain they inflicted on their loved ones.......most of all, their LBH. Some WW's are just too hardened and too stubborn to be humbled.
I hope this post doesn't sound like a word salad.
Excellent insight as always.
I also want to point out that some times the WW will suggest the LBH start dating as a way to take the "heat" off of them and what they are doing. I know my WW even made comments like "this would be so much easier if you had cheated on me". Their point is "if you are/were unfaithful, then it would justify what I am doing". In a way this is a bit of a trap set up by the WW. They can get you to do what they are doing then they can point at you and say "You are doing the same thing!" I've actually witnessed this, where a couple going through a D because the WW cheated and wants to leave for the AP, acts indignant when the LBH suddenly has a new suitor in the way of another woman. I've told the story of our close friends that went through something similar, and Larry (named changed) ended up befriending a divorced woman at his church. When Melissa heard about this she was livid, never mind that she already had wedding plans with her AP! When Larry collapsed and went into a diabetic coma (he was a T1 diabetic) Melissa went to the hospital and when she found this other woman in Larry's room she assaulted her!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Bump for a great thread, and one of the most wise vets on this site! I also wanted to take this opportunity to point out some very good advice, from sandi's own rules (She calls them 37 rules but she added a couple over time!)
Originally Posted by sandi2
38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I do know that she has been taking long breaks due to health reasons. She had mentioned a few months back sitting and typing at the computer for long stretches was uncomfortable for her. But this a pretty long stretch.
