WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont5.)

[SteveLW]

Scott, this is what we are trying to help you prepare for. Your kids feeling in the middle. Her introducing an OM. Those are things that will set you back unless you brace yourself for their inevitability.

More than likely, your kids will come back to your house after being with W, and suddenly will mention X where is X is a man's name. We've seen this dozens and dozens of times with LBSs. Some get upset because they had verbal agreements in place not to introduce other people to the kids until they discussed it. But WASs rarely ever live up to those types of agreements. And you have no control over that.

Also, most LBSs use that as an excuse to be upset about OP, even though what they are really upset about is that there is an OP to begin with!

LH and I have been trying to get you to understand that this eventuality is coming. It is highly unlikely that she left the MR in order to spend the rest of her life alone. Though I do know one woman that did that and hasn't even dated since she left her husband and has concentrated on being the best mom she could be. Most WASs especially in your age range have the idea of a future OP in mind (if not one already in the picture)?

[Traveler]

I'll see her Friday at my son's lacrosse, I'll get there first and I'll sit with a friend of mine that she doesn't like. She'll keep her distance. My friend and I will have fun at the game. It will be interesting to see what my daughter does, I imagine she'll feel like she's in the middle if we aren't sitting next to each other.

Hi Scott,

Kids' events never seemed tough for my children. We set the expectation that when they needed to see a parent or to sit on the bleachers, they went to the parent with custody. The other parent was a guest/visitor. It's like a day with grandparents. When you're there, you're in charge of your kids, when you're not, your grandparents are. I taught most of my kids' rec soccer and basketball seasons. I'm greedy.

Every child is different! And, I guess mine never dealt with a transition or change on this, since we were ex's from their very first seasons of sports. I hope Friday goes smoothly.

[ScottB]

Steve85 - I hear you. I don't know how you actually "prepare" for it. I mean when it happens, I can imagine the rush of emotions - sadness and rage. All I can do is continue with the things I am doing to the best of my ability and really work not to get sucked into her world - that is really freaking hard, because of Fear. I fear that if I don't help her, if I'm not her friend, it will push her further away and into the arms of someone else. I think there is an inevitability of it happening anyways, but of course I don't want to push her that way.

CW - Thats a good thought, that they sit with whoever has custody. If that doesn't happen then I could bring that up after the fact to my STBXW because it is going to cut both ways. And of course my wife is welcome to sit with us, I just don't think she will because she doesn't like my friend.

This was a friend that I've had longer than her, that she had forced me to cut out of my life because she believed his wife was spying on her when she was having her affair and then spreading rumors about her (which didn't happen - but if it had happened, the rumors would have been true).
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Anyhow, I just learned that my wife accepted a new job and starts on 1/25. That is going to bring a world of hurt for her and be a massive change in her life. Tomorrow during mediation I'm sure to find out how much her income is, I hope she crushed it!!

Based on the previous messages, I assume I let her struggle with the work life balance and hit rock bottom as I continue to do my thing?

[Traveler]

Based on the previous messages, I assume I let her struggle with the work life balance and hit rock bottom as I continue to do my thing?

Yes, let her sink or swim while you take care of you and yours.

I fear that if I don't help her, if I'm not her friend, it will push her further away and into the arms of someone else.

On the flip side, she doesn't have to experience a complete loss if Scott remains her BFF and a backup option even as she explores OM and other changes. If my partner and I had remained adventure buddies after breaking up, it's more certain we'd be in each other's lives long-term, but less certain we'd have reconciled. What you'd do if an OM shows up is a key question. I wager if you'd stop being BFFs then you should stop now, but if you'd continue as BFFs thinking it's better to have her in your life in some form than not, it makes sense to continue. Tough choices. Takes your time to figure out what's right for you.

[SteveLW]

Steve85 - I hear you. I don't know how you actually "prepare" for it. I mean when it happens, I can imagine the rush of emotions - sadness and rage. All I can do is continue with the things I am doing to the best of my ability and really work not to get sucked into her world - that is really freaking hard, because of Fear. I fear that if I don't help her, if I'm not her friend, it will push her further away and into the arms of someone else. I think there is an inevitability of it happening anyways, but of course I don't want to push her that way.

Scott, lots of LBSs struggle with that. The problem is that this is coming from the faulty assumption that you can PULL them closer to you. You cannot. Helping her and being her friend will not draw her closer to you. It will allow her to feel secure where she is at. Once she is secure that you are securely in the friendzone, that is when the threat of an OM becomes strongest. "He is okay with it, has accepted it, it is safe to introduce to the kids!" However, if you start living your best life, if you keep her at arms length so she isn't sure who you are with or what you are doing, but only that you seem extremely happy and fulfilled, she might start wondering "What's up with Scott? Has he met someone?" Sometimes that triggers the competitive nature in WAS and they suddenly are on the chase! Admittedly we tend to see this phenomenon in WAHs more than WAWs, but there have been a few WAWs that have started to come sniffing back around when the LBH suddenly seemed to be flourishing in his new life without her.

So I maintain, that being her friend, being willing to help her is actually the fastest way to push her into the arms of an OM. And the worst thing about the friend-zone? You will be one of the first people to hear how wonderful OM is and how great of a time they are having, right from her own mouth. After all, that is the kind of things friends share.

[LH19]

I think there is an inevitability of it happening anyways, but of course I don't want to push her that way.

Well if you are waiting it out which I think you will at least try then it would help you to push her into another relationship. She is going to have to at least have one relationship before she thinks about coming back. After all this is what you get a D for is to date other people.

This was a friend that I've had longer than her, that she had forced me to cut out of my life because she believed his wife was spying on her when she was having her affair and then spreading rumors about her (which didn't happen - but if it had happened, the rumors would have been true).

So she chooses your friends for you. Does she set up playdates too lol? See where I am going with this Scotty B?

Anyhow, I just learned that my wife accepted a new job and starts on 1/25. That is going to bring a world of hurt for her and be a massive change in her life.

Ahhh these expectations usually leave people disappointed.

Based on the previous messages, I assume I let her struggle with the work life balance and hit rock bottom as I continue to do my thing?

Boy you sure don't seem like you have any faith in her. You know how many single moms work and get everything done?

[Ginger1]

Why do you think her life is going to be so awful and she is going to hit rock bottom because she is going to work? Why do you think she is going to fail so hard and be miserable at the work life balance?

This is going to sound harsh, but it seems like you really liked her being dependent on you. You wanted her need you for everything and to be her hero. Were you hoping that would keep her from leaving ? It seems like your hope is she will hate being not being dependent on you and want to come back. Your identity is totally wrapped up in being the caretaker for your wife. Not a husband and a partner. And it seems like you would love to go back to this. And it also seems like you hope she hits rock bottom in her new responsibilities so she will come back.

That’s not healthy, dude

[ScottB]

Steve85 - You made some really good points. Its tough, but I think what you said makes sense. I can't pull her closer, I can't pursue her either. She needs to close the gap.

LH - Man, that is a harsh truth - that the divorce is so that we can date other people and she will need to do that so that she can make a decision. I appreciate you saying that, I'm going to have to sit with that and internalize that truth.

And yes LH, I gave her my man card; at the time I felt it was the only way to save the marriage. I'm not really sure that anything would have worked once she had the affair. She was gone before that and never really came back after that.

And I don't have much faith in her ability to handle it all on her own. She couldn't handle working and the kids when we were together and I was doing a lot of the work. She had to quit her job because she couldn't hold it all together. AND I was still doing half the work around the house for the last year!

And Ginger1 - She makes bad decisions on repeat, that is why I think she will hit rock bottom. She has never in her life been able to balance work and life. It was always a significant struggle for our relationship, I just can't see how she will do it now, especially because the place she went to work has a clock in / clock out mentality. She has had full reign to do whatever she wanted for the past 9 years - complete freedom of choice. She has not been dealing in reality for a while.

Now, you imply a good question, did I like her being dependent on me?
No. I liked giving her the freedom to choose what she wanted out of life, but I was repeatedly disappointed with her lack of effort, lack of contribution, lack of balance when she worked, and laziness. And on top of that, she would then turn around and tell me that I needed to do more continually. As an example, in November, when she was supposed to be looking for a job she went to the pool for a couple of hours because it was open and we had a nice day. It blew my frigging mind.

And I do think you are right, we had (have) a weird relationship where in a way I have felt more like her father but at the same time she treats me like she's my mother. Its really screwed up. We were partners in a failing relationship where neither of us felt safe enough to speak our minds and grow.

And to your last point - You're right. I do want her to hit rock bottom, I do want to be able to say I told you so, I do want to know in my soul that I was right. That IS NOT healthy. That is not loving. And that place is the source of a deep anger - which is probably born out of some deep fear; the fear being that maybe I am not good enough and she moved on and will have a better life. (ugh, that stung).

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In IC, I shared a dream I had with my counselor, because he asked that I pay attention. I told him that I felt like when I slept I was under attack by my unconscious because I would dream of her. He made the point that maybe it wasn't really about her, but about what she represented to me; the desire to be with a loving, soft, compassionate, happy, silly, sexy partner who cared deeply for me. My wife is a symbol of these things, though it is not who she is. That really resonated with me and I think that is the truth.

Which then gets me back to the way that when I am around her my body literally reacts to her presence and wants to be with her. You can read everything I wrote and easily see that Scott is going to be better off once he gets through this. But this core desire to be with her, that is from the body and of emotion pulls me towards her. Its so screwed up.

[LH19]

LH - Man, that is a harsh truth - that the divorce is so that we can date other people and she will need to do that so that she can make a decision. I appreciate you saying that, I'm going to have to sit with that and internalize that truth.

So she can make what decision? Scotty B "the tribe has spoken"

And yes LH, I gave her my man card; at the time I felt it was the only way to save the marriage. I'm not really sure that anything would have worked once she had the affair. She was gone before that and never really came back after that.

I agree but giving away your man card pushed her further away. Never again for anybody.

And I don't have much faith in her ability to handle it all on her own. She couldn't handle working and the kids when we were together and I was doing a lot of the work. She had to quit her job because she couldn't hold it all together. AND I was still doing half the work around the house for the last year!

So she's the prize?

Now, you imply a good question, did I like her being dependent on me?
No. I liked giving her the freedom to choose what she wanted out of life, but I was repeatedly disappointed with her lack of effort, lack of contribution, lack of balance when she worked, and laziness.

So she's the prize?

And on top of that, she would then turn around and tell me that I needed to do more continually. As an example, in November, when she was supposed to be looking for a job she went to the pool for a couple of hours because it was open and we had a nice day. It blew my frigging mind.

hmmmm. That blew your mind? Doesn't sound mind blowing to me. It was a nice day and she went to the pool.

And I do think you are right, we had (have) a weird relationship where in a way I have felt more like her father but at the same time she treats me like she's my mother. Its really screwed up. We were partners in a failing relationship where neither of us felt safe enough to speak our minds and grow.

So what would change if she came back?

And to your last point - You're right. I do want her to hit rock bottom, I do want to be able to say I told you so, I do want to know in my soul that I was right. That IS NOT healthy. That is not loving. And that place is the source of a deep anger - which is probably born out of some deep fear; the fear being that maybe I am not good enough and she moved on and will have a better life. (ugh, that stung).

What if you had an even better life? Sounds like you been pretty miserable for the last 4 years.

He made the point that maybe it wasn't really about her, but about what she represented to me; the desire to be with a loving, soft, compassionate, happy, silly, sexy partner who cared deeply for me. My wife is a symbol of these things, though it is not who she is. That really resonated with me and I think that is the truth.

Number one thing I see on this board is that the LBS is in love with a fantasy that doesn't exist.

Which then gets me back to the way that when I am around her my body literally reacts to her presence and wants to be with her. You can read everything I wrote and easily see that Scott is going to be better off once he gets through this. But this core desire to be with her, that is from the body and of emotion pulls me towards her. Its so screwed up.

"Rejection breeds obsession". Google it.

[ScottB]

Team - I need your help!

How do I respond to this text;

“Daughter really doesn’t want to go to lacrosse tmrw. How would you feel if I didn’t go and she could stay with me?”