Steve_Treading Water

[Thornton]

I agree with everyone, Steve.

This woman isn't your friend, unless you like to keep friends that lie to and manipulate you.

I would go complete and total pitch black NC with this woman. I would only communicate with her about your children via email so everything is documented.

Protect yourself.

[sandi2]

Thanks Joseph, I agree with you.

The couples that I know that are friends, and they are absolutely friends, their marriages weren’t affected by affairs or wayward spouses. So there is absolutely a point to be made there about not being able to be friends or share secrets etc with a spouse and marriages that are affected by infidelity.

I think it makes a big difference in why the couples got divorced, as to them becoming friends later.

I personally don’t tend to see Steve’s spouse as a wayward spouse. I personally think she a narcissist on a level most haven’t seen.

I think most WW's have narcissist traits (some more than others). However, I see what you are saying. The difference would be that a WW could change, whereas, as narcissist wouldn't.

I personally believe if Steve could accept her for what she is, and not hold onto the pain, not think that maybe she’ll change and come back, (again I don’t think she is a wayward, she’s always been incapable of monogamy) he would be the rock he needs to be for his kids. Because right now he isn’t. Right now his kids need him and he is still too focused on niceing and manipulating his W family in an attempt to win back his W. My hope, and maybe I’m wrong and way off base, is if he can start to see her as less than a W but more than absolutely nothing he can start to let go of the pain of his marriage and heal and be the better father his kids need. Because he’s too focused on one extreme or the next. Again just my opinion and I don’t ever want to give out bad advice that’s counter productive.

I agree. I know you have a busy life, but maybe you could post a little more often to Steve, since you survived the W you had, and have grown as a man & as a father.

***************************************************************************************

Steve, I encourage you to read Joseph's story. Here's a man who made vast changes from the guy who first joined the board.

At this point in my life I am just so overwhelmed with the amount of crap ive endured the last few months, and allowed myself to be affected by. My focus now is not letting things get to me ive done a terrible job.

Wouldn't it work better for you to just stop taking crap........period? Why measure the amount, and why endure it? That's why you need boundaries, to protect your feelings and self respect. You have endured disrespect for so long until it became a way of life for you, and now you can't even respect yourself. Time for that mess to stop right now. It's time for you to start respecting Steve. Okay, so you've done a terrible job by allowing "things" to get to you. I've been in that boat plenty of times, and have learned that you can overcome, but it's an ongoing challenge.

Do things get to you when it comes to anyone........or are you specifically talking about your W and the sitch? If it's your W, then you really must stay away from her and stop communicating. MWD writes in DR about the technique after the LRT. IMHO, this is true "going dark". It's as if you fell of the plant (as for as your WW is concerned). She doesn't see or hear from you again. But here's the thing, Steve. You have to let go of the false hope that the two of you will reconcile. That's the thing that is preventing you from excelling. It's what causes you to believe every lie, and every manipulative trick. You buy into the magic formula theory that something will happen to bring her to her senses and see how much you love her. It has NOTHING to do about how much you love her. It has everything to do with how much (or little) she loves you. I knew my H loved me to the moon & back, but it didn't change how I felt. It's clear your W wants what she can't have.......but that's not love. It's not honorable.

I know how newcomers will always throw the excuse in about the kids, but if your kids are old enough to talk on the phone.......then why is it necessary for you to talk to the mother? I mean, seriously.

Last time you posted, something was said about moving through with the D. Did either of you act on it?

[OnlyBent]

Steve - you allowed it. But the blame for treating another human rests on your WW. Good that you are accepting your part in this. So going forward, choose how you are treated. Don't tell her "If you swing at me again, I'm going to step out of the way!" Just step out of the way!

Part of the process is seeing WAS/WS for who they are today. That's what makes it easier for us to be manipulated in the beginning. We aren't dealing with the spouse we knew and loved and trusted.

We are dealing with people who are willing to destroy families, spend tens of thousands of dollars, risk the loss of friends, reputation etc. - all to fill the void in their lives. All to "feel" better. Caring nothing for the devastation they leave in the wake.

Recognize who they are today, accept it and get the hell out of their way.

This is really great Hope, thanks!

[sandi2]

Am I being controlling by reminding her? Or is it better to let her fail because of her negligence.

I get the whole "fixer" mentality, but some H's go overboard and essentially do the thinking for the W. In other words, she's not held responsible to remember b/c she knows her H will take care of it......and/or remind her. I don't see it as you helping her not to fail, but I do see you being a rescuer, and it has done nothing to encourage her to take responsibility. I believe people like her have to experience natural consequences life gives when we're not grown up enough to take care of business. She resents you always reminding her, even though she's guilty of not being more responsible. She is like a teenager who wants to live her own life at the expense of making her own mistakes. It's hard when another person suffers from her negligence, but you have to let her grow up and experience consequences. If it's her fault, then she has to account for the negligence, rather than saying her H didn't remind her.

Wives get accused of "nagging" when she reminds her H. Husbands get accused of controlling when he reminds his W.

[Steve_]

legally my ducks are in a row, my logical mind has been good with that.
emotionally I have messed up bad, this whole time. I let her string me along, didnt take the advice here to heart, thought I knew my W better. If I had really buckled down and actually DB'd right after BD I may have had more of a shot, but I dont think this M is worth saving anymore. I am truly dissapointed at emotially weak Ive been. Sure I could have done worse but could have done a hell of a lot better too. The IC has helped me see that by reacting to everything she does it gives her all the power over my life and my own feelings. I can chose to ignore impulses to act or give in and worsen the situation. Back when yall warned me to DB or its gonna be the next OM after this one I didnt think so, I thought she would for sure come back to me if she left OM. Yeah, that didnt happen. She is wanting to be single and free. But wants to spend time with me too and says "I see us together in the future just not right now" I just "need time to not be with anyone" blah blah blah. I give up, promised my IC Dr. I'd work on allowing myself to "give up" on the M. Should have a long time ago. Doubt ill have much more to say. If anything significant occurs ill update. Otherwise im pretty much just trying to forget about my W and my M and accept that my life is what it is.

[Traveler]

Doubt ill have much more to say. If anything significant occurs ill update.

Hi Steve, you've said that a few times, and each time a ton changed between updates. If you plan to actually do the work, there will be challenges and changes every day, so keep posting. I hope you consider what I said about OM (your ex-bestie) also betraying you and not being great friend material. You can forgive someone, love them, and honor what was without re-integrating them into your life. Good luck!

[JosephS]

Steve,
Let me give you some advice that has helped me. Unfortunately we both came here to this forum hoping to fix our marriages. Both of our spouses are serial cheaters, mental and emotional abusers. Mine just came with the added trait of being indicated child abuser.

Anyway, at first I came up with every excuse under the sun to justify my W's behavior. Heck, I even questioned if my kids were telling the truth at first about everything. From my W including them in the affair, to the abuse. My W says/may even have Huntington disease. Sadly, I wondered if I could use this as a lighthouse of hope that she would come back after she addressed her issues and "came to her senses" and would get help. (HA on that one).

There is a reality that I think you have to come to grips with, and it's the same reality I did. I'm going to be blunt, and it's not meant to hurt you. Your W doesn't care about you on any level at all. Not as a husband. Not as a father. Not as a man. Not as a person. Not as someone with feelings. In no way shape or form does your wife care about you. She cares about what you can do for her, and that's it. I pray her mentality isn't the same with your children, but we wouldn't know. You talk so little about your kids and focus so much on someone who doesn't deserve it.

So that's the reality I believe you need to accept. Here's the advice I can give.

1. Tell your lawyer what you want for custody, alimony is applicable, property split etc etc etc. Send it in writing and let them do their job and don't stress over that. I see a lot of posters that for some reason pay good money to a professional and than turn around and seem to wanna add that ball of stress to there basket.

2. Forgive yourself. You're gonna start blaming yourself for not seeing this behavior sooner, you may even get mad at yourself for wasting all this time on her when you could have started over years ago and been over this hump by now. Don't get caught up in the past and the should of, would of, could ofs.

3. Learn to love yourself Steve. Be kinder to yourself. Don't allow someone like this to hurt you anymore. This is beyond normal, this is beyond a mistake. This is willful destruction of herself and her family without a care of how it affected anyone else except her.

4. I know others have told you this, as have I. You are a single father now. You need to focus on your KIDS KIDS KIDS KIDS KIDS. I can't stress that enough. For the foreseeable future your life is about your kids. You'll be surprised how you won't feel as lonely. You'll start to notice things you never did before. The personalities, smiles, jokes they tell. I can almost guarantee you've got some lost time to make up for. There is no way with a W like yours, your attention wasn't on her far to much even before this latest episode of non-sense. I know I made that mistake because my W demanded the attention one way or another, and was very manipulative in terms of getting my attention solely on her and like a lost dog I followed her, and I lost precious time with my kids I'll never get back.

I also want to stress no matter what her family says, your previous in-laws, they are still her family first, be careful what you say. They will forgive her quicker than you realize.

Hang in there. I'm almost at the one year mark since my W walked out on everyone. She just had another mans baby and I honestly don't care. I'm too busy living my best life. Making up for lost time. Spending time with my kids. Watching TV shows I never did before. (BTW if you've never seen the office I can't recommend that enough). That sitcom got me laughing on some very dark days.There were days I didn't wanna live anymore. Days, I just didn't feel a thing. Days I never thought I'd go through. But now....I wouldn't change a thing. I live everyday, i laugh everyday, I love everyday, I am loved everyday. Everyday is a gift because I am not weighed down by someone that was out to hurt me and my kids and I was to ignorant to see it. Not every marriage can be saved, but more importantly, not every marriage should be saved. We both belong in the 2nd category.

BTW therapy helped me and my kids greatly. I still do tune ups visits because I like talking to someone who isn't judging me and is safe to talk too. I can't recommend a good therapist enough. And if you don't like your therapist, just find a new one.

Oh...and do something for yourself!! I went and bought a motorcycle and a new hand gun. 2 absolutely amazing things I love and can't picture myself never having again. 2 things I couldn't have with the ex.

One more thing..this past weekend...I played monopoly with 4 out of 5 kids with this absolutely joy of a woman I am seeing for 3 or 4 hours, cooked dinner together, and made brownies and cocoa for the kids, and than watched a scary movie. It was a fantastic Saturday night and one I would have never ever have had a year ago.

Go at your own pace, do things as you are ready. Post often, listen to the members here, because there is no substitute for experience, and know in your heart, you will get through this, and one day someone will come to this forum, and you'll be on the other end giving that advice and giving empathy to someone who really needs it.

[Thornton]

There you have it, Steve ^^^. Joseph has given you the recipe, please take his advice.

[Steve_]

Yep what changed for me is beginning the IC with a hardline Dr that called my BS and also the fact that she actually just started a new "job" 4 hours away in LA. Yeah, that job is under the table for shady people and she lowers herself and my family name into that cesspool for money. I even told her that getting involved with stuff like that is below her, she agreed but yet she went anyways knowing full well that I could take care of us easily. She said she wouldnt want me taking care of her finances because id be telling her what to do or asking too many questions about her life. That hit me as her saying "I want to do whatever the hell I want, hang around and shut up and deal with it" She is sick in the head to actually do something that puts herself at legal risk. And so far from her 5 and 7 year old kids. Once I saw how little respect she has for me it hurt, but she doesnt even respect herself or her duty as a mother anymore.

She asked me to watch the kids yesterday stay with them at her moms so she could go to her new job in LA. I was like well, sure (the kids can be a handful on the grandparents and I owe them for providing the kids a good place to live). Thats when she told me about this whole thing. I just couldnt really believe that all this really happened. Today from work I called her mom just to make sure the kids were behaving since WW is still gone and they were (for once haha) and her own mom told me to stop helping her, that she is using me. Her mom went off on her for going so far away to "work" I guess and of course WW texted and asked me if i talked to her mom about her "new job" but I did not. I knew better than that. I am finally feeling good and not scared about distancing myself from her. The only thing I worry about now is when the inevitable question comes .."why arent you coming over anymore, or why are you ignoring me" and im sure it will follow with something like "thats fine other people wont ignore me" or some crap like that as usual (its your fault and ill punish you for not doing as I want game). I am mentaly prep-ing for now. But I do not call or contact her in any way, she does 100% of it and its all business unless she asks me to come over and hang out which I will stop doing since she has 0% intrest in reconciling and wants to be free to sew her wild oats, not being a part of that, no thanks.

[Steve_]

Oh and BTW my strategy I will use is to just tell her "I got things to do" or "I dont feel like it today" or "I cant today" and not elaborate on anything or especially not say "I cant because you did this and that and blah and blah" nope just gonna act like I am busy pretty much 24/7 from now on until she gets the hint im done with this crap.