Did she move out in order to have space, and "to find herself" or "work on herself"? Did she move out in order to work on the MR? I doubt she moved out to work on the M. However, you can use this physical separation as a way of showing her what life without you would be for her. It takes strength and courage on your part, b/c it means you let her go, instead of playing these little peek-a-boo games she's putting out there.
Quote
I get confused and lost because in the past I would respond to her small advances and it would build momentum for us. I'm fumbling as you can see with some of my communication with her and not following up on anything that could be construed as an advancement. I'm also concerned that the "just business about our daughter" will trigger her abandonment that she felt during our relationship (which in part I now can see and own my share of that).
It's not going to work now. You were in a different time space then. Now, she wants out of the M, and has moved out of the home. That indicates more than just a riff. I'm going to call b.s. on the part about you being concerned if you pull back it will trigger her abandonment issues. YOU are the one who has abandonment issues......(which you admit at the end of that statement.) She has to take responsibility for helping her own issues.
Quote
Does the book explain why this cold approach works, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all, don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting nor discarding everyone's support, in fact it's the opposite.
Cold? What did you think separation was? What you see as being "cold" is what we often call tough love. It takes strength to apply tough love. You are living separate lives. She wants out. So, no, you don't act like a loving husband who is all concerned about her feelings......b/c she's fired you from husband position. Now, she needs to experience the results of her firing. Is that too cold for you? B/c this has just started.
I don't mean to say you have to behave like a jerk. You don't have to be hateful or mean. LBH's have trouble balancing their viewpoints, and when they're told not do something that way........they immediately think we mean go to the extreme opposite.
Quote
Also - How does validating her play into any of this? I downloaded a list awhile ago and was curious how that (if)played into this?
It's not complementing her. It's not agreeing with everything she says. It's listening. Letting her know you hear her. However, that's not to mean you have to stick around when she cussing you out or on some rampage linked to you. I've seen newcomer nice-guys get so focused on validating, when they should walk away from how the WW is talking to them. Frankly, I think nice guys jump at the validation stuff, b/c it feels more comfortable for their NGS. But unfortunately, many of them sound as if they are kissing her backside, or comes off sounding like a robot repeating the same sentence. If your W is wayward, you need to be real careful expressing validation. Don't overkill.
Quote
I just don't understand it. She sends me funny emoji's with her communications about herself to me.
And she sends me videos of our daughter and her progress updates.... It's hard for me to make this transition into "friend / dad only zone"
I imagine I'm reading all into this that there is the want to connect beyond my daughter......
I've only responded to the texts with short comments about my daughter like "she's really cute" or "go P go!"
I've read that I shouldn't is there harm in replying?
The WW doesn't want you for a husband, but she wants you to stay attached to her.......for selfish reasons. She wants you for a BFF, not a lover. She keeps you confused and emotionally attached by sending you photos of your child, and inviting you to family events/activities. She'll "use" the child for her own selfish benefit, just as you'll use your child to contact your W. These acts of contact from her should be ignored. If she text you "good morning" or late at night, just know these are her ways to keep you attached. She has no plans of taking the relationship any farther than friendship. Your best bet is to stop communication with her. I would advise you to not attend her family events, or even go over there when they invite you. They are her family, and you two are separated. Respect them enough to step back during this period. You don't have to be rude or cold to them, but if they invite you to something just thank them and say you love them but need space while going through this separation with their daughter.
Quote
Last week I FaceTimed both her sister and her mom while having my daughter on her lap.
On your W's lap, or your lap? I bet they saw right through your motivation (which was for them to go tell your W what a devoted and loving dad you are). Trying to get some brownie points with her family isn't going to impress your W.
Quote
what is "cakeating"?
She's about to come over and I find myself just trying to impress her by how I look and what the house looks like.
Cakeeating is when she benefits from being married to you, and benefits living as a single gal. Let me tell you, as long as you show her she is relevant in your life and you're trying to act good enough to please her...........you'll never get her back. I understand this probably sounds totally opposite from your ideas of saving the M, but I'm cutting to the chase here to tell you what works and doesn't work. Unless you were guilty of some type of abuse, addiction, or criminal activity, I'd guess she didn't have a justifiable reason for leaving you. Selfish reasons are only justifiable to her.
You have to act as if you are moving forward with your life (without her) and you'll be just fine. Otherwise, you are giving the reigns of your life to her and she'll never be attracted to you as a man. Why? B/c you are showing you have very little self respect, so why should she have any more? You'll be receiving a lot of new information of how to approach your sitch, so don't act upon something before you really understand it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joe17 - Does the book explain why this cold approach works, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all, don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting nor discarding everyone's support, in fact it's the opposite. I need support right now and this community has been incredibly supportive.
It's not really cold J. It's just the way things are when you are separated. Just like LH said, would you still do unpaid work for your boss after you've been fired and replaced?
Nobody is telling not to be polite or courteous. We are just telling you to treat your ex like an ex. You need to be free of the emotional ties to your ex. They will slow your healing. They will stunt your growth. And they will make it easy for her to manipulate you.
Save yourself. Nobody is coming! BD:11/2017 Filed:12/2017 Final: 2/2018
I would tweak this a little and not say courteous or polite but not be rude or dismissive. Just uninterested.
Right, and the LBH not being interested in the WW......drives her crazy. She doesn't want him, but she wants his availability to her. She can find his usefulness for all sorts of things.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
@LH19 / @Sandi2 and others: how is this (a correspondence from yesterday)
Her: Hey, I need to get a filling on wednesday from 10-12. I'll be gone 15 min on either end. Will you be available to hang with P? H isn't but I thought I'd check with you before I start calling other sitters.
Me: Good morning-I imagine that is going to be a big relief for you to get that finally taken care of, unfortunately though I can’t watch her during those hours tho. I think M hours may have changed for the better so you can ask her.
I really get the feeling she doesn't have a whole lot of respect for me. She'll barely even look at me when I see her and hardly ever says good bye when we do daughter drop offs (but that was always a pattern from her anyway)
When she drops our daughter off on Friday she said something to the effect that:
"listen the parroting has begin - I sometimes say "O my gosh and P repeats me and says "O my Josh" (which is the first name of her ex-husband) and she started laughing. I nervously said, "O great, now I'm going to get triggered every hour" - in retrospect I started thinking that she really doesn't have any clue about my feelings...
I feel like I've lived under Josh's shadow this entire relationship.
It also falls in line with her BF making a meme about me wearing all denim and she shows me.....
sometimes I let my thoughts get a hold of me and end up with "what does she think of me and my feelings that I would just be ok with laughing these things off - if I had more validation from her it would be ok b/c we would have more trust....
Me: Good morning-I imagine that is going to be a big relief for you to get that finally taken care of, unfortunately though I can’t watch her during those hours tho. I think M hours may have changed for the better so you can ask her.
Wordy? I'd go with, "Sorry, I'm not available." or "Thanks for checking, I'm not available."
Maybe "I Imagine this is going to be a big relief.." was an attempt at validation? But note, she did not express any feelings, which is the entry point for validation.
"I think M hours may have changed for the better so you can ask her." - Sounds like you are trying to help her solve her problems, but you're no longer in that role.
I recommend you practice responding with short and to the point text messages. I know nice guys want to be polite and all of that NGS stuff, but you get way too wordy and overly-polite. Try keeping it down to a dozen words, if possible. It cuts out all that chit-chat. In some cases, keep it down to a half dozen.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
H- Great! How is she sleeping, eating, pooping etc?
M- Everything was pretty normal...she was up at 6:20 this morning.
H- Ok thanks
The coldness hurts.
After talking with my therapist this morning it's more clear that there is so much mis-communication and understanding missing between us, and it's like she's running on resentment and not seeing what has been really going on. she's also really stubborn.
