Trying to heal from WW

[Traveler]

[quote=Ace_32] i always build up strong walls and it takes a long time for someone to break through, then when i finally let someone in it doesnt really work out. I think everytime a relationship falls apart i build up more walls though to protect myself the next time, which i need to sort out.

It's a tough balance--walls thick enough to offer some protection, but not so thick you're alone! It takes courage to be vulnerable. I've gone through whole relationships without being vulnerable. Props of having found the courage to put yourself out there, and for working to find the courage to do so again.

[Ace_32]

Thanks CWarrior, will take a look into that technique and apply it in my next relationship. It probably wont be with WW but who knows, miracles can happen.

I do believe in some walls until you feel comfortable to let your guard down, and meeting someone that sticks around and helps break down the walls through trust,etc. shows me they deserve a chance to break through if that makes sense. You need to let your guard down to experience life, for example i am scared of sharks but that wont stop me from swimming in the ocean or trying to surf.

I havent heard from W in a week today, last thing she asked was for me to post her the marriage certificate so she can file. Also, 6 months today since i last saw her. Its been a tough day.

[Ace_32]

I have lost all hope of reconciliation lately, don't think this is fixable anymore. Not contacting her anymore and have removed her from all social media, still get the urge to search her on Facebook once in a while to see if she has posted anything new but slowly stopping that now as well.

Still cant believe all that has happened, havent come to the point of acceptance yet and still miss my old life with her no matter how difficult and stressful it could be at times. I know time heals all wounds and i will most likely come to a point where i realise this is for the best but struggling to get to that point.

[sandi2]

I believe your feelings come from your NGS. I'd bet you could check every box describing NGS. To quote something I read about NGS: "There are a lot of factors and variables that play into how men become afflicted with the NGS. It all goes back to that argument of nature vs. nurture. A lot of our personality is formed in childhood and into adolescence".

"Even if a masculine adult male was present in their son's upbringing, he might of also been physically or emotionally abusive. The causes young boys to internalize the belief that want to be the extreme polar opposite of their father or stepfather, but this often leads to a flawed strategy, while it's good the nice guy will toss out the abusive traits and character flaws of the father/stepfather, they will also toss out the sensible and reasonable traits such as lead, being dominant, and being assertive".


I don't think that's completely accurate for all cases of NGS. Of course, I'm no expert, but I have a NG husband, a NG son, and one who is totally opposite of NG. I had a very masculine father. I know how these guys were raised! However, I can agree the above statement is true for some men. Growing up in a critical environment certainly has affect on the child.

Men afflicted with “Nice Guy Syndrome” are motivated and specifically dependent upon external validation and avoid conflicts or any type of confrontation like the plague. They are guided by three covert contracts that they’re not consciously aware of:

“If I’m a good guy, then everyone will love me, like me, and people I’m sexually attracted to will desire me.”
“If I take care of other people’s needs without them having to ask, then they will meet my needs without me having to ask for anything in return.”
“If I do everything right, then I will have a smooth & problem free life.”

Characteristics & Traits of Nice Guy Syndrome:

A man who if he has a significant other or a dominant female figure in his life, she will lead, dictate, and scrutinize his every action and run the show.
A man who will often go out of his way even if it’s incredibly inconvenient and just completely illogical for anybody but, whose own life seems to be completely out of order.
A man who will often agree with everyone and change his viewpoint to appease, make the other person happy, and avoid conflict.
A man who will let anyone walk completely over him because he doesn’t want to rock the boat. (Think of Marty McFly’s dad from Back to the Future)
A man who is completely dependable and will never say no to anything but, will never assert himself or let people know they’re imposing on him.
Often seeks the validation and approval of others.
Tries to hide their perceived flaws and mistakes.
Always put other people’s wants and needs before their own. (There is nothing wrong with putting other people you care about before yourself but, nice guys take this to the extreme.)
Sacrifice their personal power, space, and boundaries and often revert to playing the victim role.
Often disconnected from other men and their own masculinity.
Often self-loathing.
Idealization of women and become passive aggressively manipulative and resentful towards women who have rejected them romantically or sexually.
Often fail to live up to their full potential.
Are often passive-aggressive.
Often stay in one-sided and often toxic and abusive relationships.
Are inherently deceptive and manipulative.
Frequently get friend zoned.
Often have ulterior motives.
Indecisive.
Emotionally needy.

There's a lot of NGS information on the Internet, and how you can constructively deal with it. Until you fix yourself, you can't fix your relationships. I urge you to really focus on how to change these traits (and they all may not apply for all people).

One more thing, I get it about building walls, but don't confuse walls and boundaries. How much study time have you given on the subject of setting effective boundaries?

((hugs))

[Ace_32]

Thanks for your response Sandi.

I do see myself in some of the points but not all. I actually think this happens when im in a serious relationship only as well. I dont think of myself as a "nice guy" per se, i havent always been the nicest guy to girls in my life but i think when i get into a serious relationship and the fear creeps in i start losing my confidence then i start exhibiting some of the characteristics you mentioned. I probably used to hide that part of myself because of my ego though and it eventually comes out.

My mom was quite overbearing and protective over us, and my dad is a pilot and wasnt around much and was also a very angry guy so i can see your point. I always said i never want to be like him so maybe i overcompensated.

I can definitely relate to the 3 covert contracts you mention, especially point 2. I would always do what i could for her and i expected her to do things for me without me asking and i would build up resentment when that didnt happen.

I will google a bit about it and see how it relates to me and what i can do to work on the parts that do affect me.

I dont think im confusing them, walls are more an emotional barrier to not expose myself and my feelings to someone else. Its more of an internal barrier. Boundaries are more external in my opinion and what you dont want the other person to do to you. This isnt in my control, only my reaction to broken boundaries is. I havent put too much study time into this to be honest, all of this is new to me. I have been studying the last 10 years and i havent put much time into improving myself yet, been growing my faith and reading alot of bible and christian books though the last few months.

[SteveLW]

Thanks for your response Sandi.

I do see myself in some of the points but not all. I actually think this happens when im in a serious relationship only as well. I dont think of myself as a "nice guy" per se, i havent always been the nicest guy to girls in my life but i think when i get into a serious relationship and the fear creeps in i start losing my confidence then i start exhibiting some of the characteristics you mentioned. I probably used to hide that part of myself because of my ego though and it eventually comes out.

My mom was quite overbearing and protective over us, and my dad is a pilot and wasnt around much and was also a very angry guy so i can see your point. I always said i never want to be like him so maybe i overcompensated.

I can definitely relate to the 3 covert contracts you mention, especially point 2. I would always do what i could for her and i expected her to do things for me without me asking and i would build up resentment when that didnt happen.

I will google a bit about it and see how it relates to me and what i can do to work on the parts that do affect me.

I dont think im confusing them, walls are more an emotional barrier to not expose myself and my feelings to someone else. Its more of an internal barrier. Boundaries are more external in my opinion and what you dont want the other person to do to you. This isnt in my control, only my reaction to broken boundaries is. I havent put too much study time into this to be honest, all of this is new to me. I have been studying the last 10 years and i havent put much time into improving myself yet, been growing my faith and reading alot of bible and christian books though the last few months.

As with most things in life, there is no cookie-cutter, one-size fits all. NGS has varying degrees. I was like you, I wasn't full blown NGS, but I certainly did have covert contracts. Some read the No MOre Mr. Nice Guy and are "yep that is me!" to "nope, not me at all" and everywhere in between. I think most guys have it to a varying degree.

AS far as boundaries, you are on the right track. They are "If X does Y, then I will do Z." For instance: "If my wife sleeps with another man, I will go file for divorce." The boundaries is cheating. The action on your part is D. Once you have established a boundary you need to be ready to follow through. Or your boundaries are meaningless and will never be respected.

[Ace_32]

Hey Steve, i agree with you that we all have it to some extent.

I messaged my WW about 3 weeks ago saying that i am willing to put in the work to make this work and she needs to make a choice whether she wants to or im going to move on with my life and file. she said she wants a divorce and she will file and she doesnt want anything. Found out a few days later that she is seeing a friend of mine but thats beside the point. So basically im waiting for divorce papers to be delivered to me any day now.

The thing is i still love her, but is she the type of person i want to spend the rest of my life with and give my everything for? I dont think so anymore. I made mistakes but i was good to her, i deserve better than this. I will sign the papers and send back to her without a word. Maybe one day she wil realize what she has done, but that isnt my burden to bear.

[Ace_32]

Hey everyone, haven't posted in a few days. I think i have just been feeling numb and going with the flow lately.

Thinking now though how messed up it is that people can make a committment to you and then just backtrack because they dont want to try anymore or they dont accept the parts of you they used to. I also had a terible few years with my wife but i never would have done this to her or left her. I really cant understand how people can just switch off like this to someone they used to love.

Can't imagine how difficult it must be for you guys in IHS or having kids and still seeing her often, it makes it a bit easier not having seen her in 6 months but im still struggling to find acceptance of this situation. I realise i have no choice and i have no control, but i still feel like there is hope no matter how stupid that makes me seem. I am still NC and will keep it that way. Who wants to be with someone that doesn't care about them at all anymore.... apparently Ace

[Adam04]

Hi Ace,

It does suck, there's no denying that but we can try to make it less sucky by doing things. We create our own happiness. So if something bothers you, identify it and figure out how you want to deal with it. If it's a way of thinking and how you're feeling, control that. Try to watch something funny on tv. Go outside and run, do something worthwhile that you enjoy. If things come up and you know they're feelings you have to process, be patient and kind to yourself, allow yourself to feel the emotions and let them cycle through. It may not make sense at first and you might struggle with it but the more you do and create your own happiness, the less time you think about the things that bring you down. And of course when we wind down to sleep, those thoughts usually creep in. Save time for sleep, for sleep.

Save those deep thoughts for IC.

Ace, there can be a lot said about how messed up it is when the other person leaves us and we make the argument that we would never do the same. I don't justify their actions, but I won't say its 100% all their fault. They were the ones pulling the trigger. Sometimes what we do when we are unhappy is that we make it unpleasant for others too. When you said you had a terrible few years, what did you do to fix that and find happiness? I wonder if you fixed it at all or if you shifted that burden onto your W. Not saying you did that but it could very well be likely without you purposefully knowing. When we are negative we tend to bring others down with us. When we are positive, the same thing.


Regarding IHS, from what I remember it wasn't so bad for me. I heard of ppl saying it was a living hell. I didn't corollate two things at the time. People did say it allowed the LBS to always look over his shoulder at what the WAS was doing, but that's up to the person. I guess in reading the boards for a few months and years now, you get to see the magnitude that this happens to so many individuals. I didn't corollate that it would be a living hell if you were still stuck on trying to find reasons why it didnt work or if you were still wanting to make it work. With the help of Sandi and this board, I was able to buy into my marriage is dead early on and I bought into the idea that I was going to change myself. I dont know if you can tell from my posts but at some point, it was about my working out, my goals, me.

So now looking back, considering the stages of grief, bargaining and denial, its safe to say before I got to the boards some of that was alrdy out my system. I dont know if i was at the acceptance stage of grief but i know i believed in the system and that it was working for me to be better. I did believe my marriage was dead.

Oh and I was still optimistic and hopeful. I didn't let that tear me down. It'll get better. Mourn the loss, appreciate what you had. Dont let it mess with your character. Regarding all that other NGS stuff you can work on that in the meantime.

[Ace_32]

Hi Adam, thanks for your message. Been trying to build up the emotional energy to respond, been in a place of despondency to my situation lately. I get what you are saying,i do tend to avoid my emotions but i will try to embrace and face them more. I realise that i cant avoid it forever and i need to go through the grieving process fully. Honestly think that if she died tragically or something rather than leaving and doing what she was doing it would be easier to deal with from a grieve point of view, but maybe that is just an ego thing.

I have been trying to get used to enjoying my own company again, its a slow process but im getting there slowly. Starting to gym and run more often again after drifting for a while. People are starting to notice a change in me and have mentioned it, i am also starting to get my sense of humour and my old personality back again which i think is a good sign.

I took 100% of the blame for a long time or at least 90%. Maybe because she always blamed me and basically told me its my fault she left, but she did alot wrong as well and i wasnt really happy either. What she is doing and how she left is so like her as well, she always runs away when things get hard or she doesnt want to deal with it anymore. I have my regrets but i dont take all the blame anymore, we could have made it work but she ran away and decided not to try. I probably didnt try hard enough, but i always listened when she said things bothered her and i tried to change my behavior and be better. I did slip up and go back to old ways but whatever i did it never seemed good enough anyway. We both struggled a bit with depression during the relationship and i think my negativity and stress from my studies did take its toll as well.

Well done on coming to the realization so quickly and being able to accept what was happening, i think it takes alot of us alot longer to come to that point. I think its fear and stubborness from my side to refuse to accept the reality of the situation because i literally refused to accept it in my mind, i guess thats denial. I cycle through all the stages constantly, it definitely isnt a linear process. I read a bit of your sitch, will try read it through when i have a bit of time.

Thanks for your advice and encouragement, i know i need to just get to acceptance and to understand that this is an opportunity to literally rewire my brain and become a better man and the person i was meant to be. Its so crazy how we need something like this to happen to make us realise we need to change and actually put the work in. It did break me down and i was very close to spiraling and going into a hole of depression but im not done fighting yet and im goi g to come out of this stronger and better than i have ever been.