Trying to heal from WW

[OnlyBent]

Thanks Hope and OB. Been missing WW the last few days but i wont reach out again. I feel the need to sometimes but i know how it will go so i change my mind pretty quickly, like you say Hope i know how it would really go (her ignoring my message or not even reading it most likely). I do still have a bit of denial that she will come to her senses and see what i have to offer, i guess its just fools hope though.

Great that you can recognise what the outcome would be, keep telling yourself that. It is ok that you still have that denial about reality, keep doing the right things and this will fade. Remember accepting reality is the best, AND ONLY, way forward.

I have been seeing what people have asked on other threads about what the LBS would actually do if WW decided to come back and i have been thinking about it, i honestly dont know what i would do. I still want to make the marriage work and if she showed genuine remorse i might be stupid enough to try again, there is probably less than 1% chance of that happening though.

Don't even think about what you'd do, because as you said its probably less than 1% chance of happening. How many other things in your life with this probability do you waste your time considering. If it ever happens, deal with it when it does, until then focus on getting yourself to where you want to be.

Been jogging and doing weights 3 - 4 times a week for about 2 weeks now, been reading alot and have cut down on the drinking the last few days. Started to feel a bit better about myself in general.

Awesome! Keep this up my man. Also, I see you commented on my thread, when you weren't sure if you had anything to contribute. You did great and I appreciated it, am going to respond now. Keep at it!

[OnlyBent]

I don't actually see a lot of reconciliations, even as much as we did a few years ago, and I think it has to do with the attitudes and mindset of people in our world today. I will spare you and not get off into that subject. But I will say that people have been so influenced by the world's propaganda, that successful R appears less often.......or so it seems.

Sandi, I am actually interested in your thoughts on this. Reading some of the older threads a while back, I noticed that a lot of posters recommended being their WAS/WS's best friend without expectation. There seemed to be some success with this method. From what I see now, that strategy has been eschewed for a more kick them to the curb and get on with your life, you need respect before attraction type of strategy.

Do you think the change in advice has adapted because of the change in attitudes and mindset of people today as opposed to even 10 years ago? Are the WAS/WS getting more disrespectful? Or is the lack of reconciliations because there has been that change in advice?

[LH19]

Sandi, I am actually interested in your thoughts on this. Reading some of the older threads a while back, I noticed that a lot of posters recommended being their WAS/WS's best friend without expectation.

I can't speak for Sandi but why would you be best friends with someone who betrayed you like your W did? You show me one where the BFF way worked and I will show you 99 where it didn't.

There seemed to be some success with this method.

Again Bent where is the proof?

From what I see now, that strategy has been eschewed for a more kick them to the curb and get on with your life, you need respect before attraction type of strategy.

This is where you are wrong Bent. There are no strategies. The goal is to get to a place where if someone treats you $hitty they are removed from your life permanently.

Are the WAS/WS getting more disrespectful?

Yes but I think it is because men have become bigger pu$$ies. I am not exonerating myself. I was too in the beginning. So the bigger the Pu$$y the more disrespectful they get. Read Steve's thread. Read Curtis thread.

Or is the lack of reconciliations because there has been that change in advice?

No it's because of what I said above and people are terrible at DB. I guarantee you that in the beginning if the LBS said "get your $hit and get the fuch out of the house" at bomb drop you would see a ton more recons. Like in your sitch Bent you gave your W way too much time to get comfortable in a relationship with OM. Lucky for you that was the best thing that ever happened to you. You just don't know it yet.

[SteveLW]

Bent, I think being besties with your EX can work, but you have to be willing to play the long game for it to occur. What I mean by that is being besties with your EX will take a longggggggggggggggggggg time. Most LBSs do not have that kind of patience.

Further, you should never be besties with your S while they are walking away from you. It could come later, but not in the midst of your S Ding you. I think this is important because commanding respect during the end of the MR and into D is most important. Sometimes that will mean you have to act in "unfriendly" ways. I quote unfriendly because it is the world's definition of friend that I am juxtaposing against. Most people in modern society do not get the concept of true friendship, and believe that friendship is an enabling relationship. In other words, if you friend were engaged in cheating on their spouse, our society would say that condemning that friend is "unfriendly", when in reality a true friend would tell their friend that were wrong.

So my belief is that it is nearly impossible to be besties with your WAS during the D. After the D, I guess it is possible, but I think there are two criteria for it to be successful:

1) You have to have the patience of Job (the Bible character, not the poster)
2) The EX cannot be involved with an OP (especially remarried)

If you don't have 1, then you will not last very long. I've tried to be BFFs with a woman that I wanted to be romantically involved with. The frustration and effect it has on other potential relationships means that very few people could hang in for very long in that role.

And if 2 is not true, then take what I just said and multiply it by infinity. I cannot think of many things worse in life than being friend with someone you secretly pine for, and having them talk to you about their relationship with somebody else. I think that might even be a form of torture in some cultures.

I agree with LH, but will go further. For every sitch that being besties work, we can show you 9999 where it didn't. I think it has a low probability of working because of 1 and 2 above.

[Thornton]

Lucky for you that was the best thing that ever happened to you. You just don't know it yet.

It took me a loooong time to get to this point, but I see it clearly now. I agree with LH, I wouldn't want my ex back ever.

[Ace_32]

Thanks Steve, i get what you are saying and i definitely dont want to restart the clock and go back to day one again. It has been tough to go this long without talking to her but im sure it will get easier. I wonder how long it will take her to get curious and want to reach out but i guess it doesn't really matter anymore, need to change the way i think about things.

Sandi, i have always kept my hopes up but they are probably at their lowest point the last few weeks. Ive also read statistics about how many couples survive seperations and its not good, even checking the board here its very rare to see a success story. Its all very discouraging, depends on how you look at it though. The 5% or whatever that make it probably didnt think they would either though so you never know if your sitch could be the one where a miracle happens. I also think hope is a good thing, hoping for reconciliation kept me going and as time goes you can start hoping for other good things to happen.

Also agree that the world is changing and people are alot more selfish in general and have unrealistic expectations. Social media also makes people seem happy and like they have amazing lives which makes people start thinking the grass would be greener with someone else. And then the hollywood rom coms etc. as well makes them think that love is supposed to be a certain way and its impossible to live up to those standards. Years is a long time to wait around, thats why i get the advice about GAL and move on. If it happens down the line and we get another chance then great we can see if its something we both want but hanging around waiting and effectively wasting a few years of your life is crazy.

I realise that remorse isnt the only thing but that is the starting point and the bare minimum in my view, also she would need to reach out. I am done telling her that i am still willing to work on this marriage or asking for another chance, she knows that already and doesnt care. I wont initiate R talks again. She went for IC after we tried MC and i honestly dont think it helped her, i think she was very fake in her sessions and the counselor basically just validated her and reinforced her ideas. Think it had alot to do with our split but thats just conjecture in my part. I would definitely have stipulations, not sure what they would be but luckily i have 'years' to figure it out haha.

[Ace_32]

Hi OnlyBent, thanks for your message and im glad i was able to contribute to your thread a little. I asked that question because i realised i do the same thing and i think most people do, they try to keep themselves busy and that way they dont spend anytime trying to process there own thoughts and feelings. I think its very important to do that.

[sandi2]

I noticed that a lot of posters recommended being their WAS/WS's best friend without expectation.

Without expectation is the problem. At this very moment, I dare say you are thinking this friendship thing could be the route to restore the relationship with your W. That's your motivation, so you will be disappointed over & over again. You'll try to make yourself more available to hang out with her (when she doesn't have anything better) and run to her requests (which could be many). If you try to back off, or refuse to be her errand boy, plumber, or whatever........guess what she does? She pulls out the friendship card and uses it to beat you down. Her viewpoint of "friends" is not the same as yours.

Here's the thing, and I'll speak from the WW view point. The very name of wayward wife should be a strong enough warning for any type of relationship, but for a LBH to be BFF's with her..........is just crazy! She's a user. She'll take advantage of your generosity and use it to her benefit. In the meantime, you are hoping every day her feelings will turn to love......while she has zero romantic feelings or thoughts about you. In her eyes, you are just a nice-guy who can't say "no" to her.

My memory is not what it once was, but at the moment I cannot remember a case on the board where the friendship route worked with a LBH and a WW. I believe MWD promotes friendship if possible, and she had a thank-you note in her DR book from a couple who claimed it worked for them. However, their story was not given, nor was anything said to give the impression there had been an affair. So, if the couple is having problems that doesn't include betrayal, cheating, deceit, etc (like the majority on the board)............maybe it works, IDK. I agree with LH and Steve here. When you have a case of lost respect, how are you going to be real friends with that person? You don't get respect by being a friend.

Do you think the change in advice has adapted because of the change in attitudes and mindset of people today as opposed to even 10 years ago? Are the WAS/WS getting more disrespectful? Or is the lack of reconciliations because there has been that change in advice?

I don't think the advice has changed, except maybe the "exposure" advice. MWD had to do some housecleaning b/c there were complaints of feeling bullied by certain posters who pushed exposing the spouse's affair. There may have been a broader variety across the board, b/c the threads were moving so fast it was a challenge to keep up. It seemed to have been more people engaging with posting at the time. And, I'll just come out and say........if a person hasn't experienced waywardness themselves, or been married to it, they don't fully grasp the root of the situation. That's what I was seeing. I would see great advice......for a non-wayward case, but it wasn't effective with WW's. I think the problem is lumping everyone into the same classification. The LBH cannot be the softy nice-guy with a wayward W.

When I joined, everyone mostly used the WAS term or MLC. Over time, it really bothered me how everyone was lumped into the same category. Even today, the board monitors will say the same work is required, no matter which category defines the other spouse. While I agree with the general things, 180's, GAL, detach, etc.........I strongly believe whenever there is wayward spouse, a tougher side of love must be applied. I think it's a category all of its own, that can't be thrown in with a WAS. They are apples & oranges. When I read DR, I saw where MWD would advise her version of tough love (although I wonder if some people missed that part), but IMHO, it was the last resort after the LRT, and by then.......it's too late to save the MR. It's more of a self survival mode. Also, bear in mind that the book is speaking to a multitude of readers, where the board speaks to one individual at a time. In other words, we can get more specific about their sitch.

Originally Posted by sandi2
I don't actually see a lot of reconciliations, even as much as we did a few years ago, and I think it has to do with the attitudes and mindset of people in our world today. I will spare you and not get off into that subject. But I will say that people have been so influenced by the world's propaganda, that successful R appears less often.......or so it seems.

I was speaking about the board, and the general population in real life. I'm going to ramble a bit by hitting a few highlights and speaking in general terms. With every new generation, there is usually some change in attitude and how they view life. I'm old enough to have observed how the attitude of men and women have both changed in the past few decades. I believe it has resulted from the influence of every source of secular media that surrounds us. Movies, magazines, Internet, books, political movements, etc., etc. I'm concerned for the future of marriage & families, based on the sense of entitlement and lack of morals people have these days. Look at our young women that have been influenced negatively by the feminist movement. Look how it's changed men to the point they don't know their role in relationships. They don't know how to be an alpha. They aren't even sure how to recognize disrespect. Women went from burning bras to hating the male gender. When did it become popular to dress and behave like sluts? Where did these attitudes develop? Where will these attitudes take them in the future? Women were lied to, and they bought into it. And men.........well, they did whatever the women told them to do. Men became followers instead of leaders.

I agree with LH and Steve. Cadet gave a very good post about why there are so many nice-guys since WWII. If I can find it, I'll copy & paste. In the meantime, I suspect that's as far as I need to take this conversation.

[sandi2]

Here's that post from Cadet about nice guys:

Why are men NICE GUYS?

Answer:
We are raised mostly by our mothers, have teachers who are mostly woman, may have fears of abandonment, possibly some sort of shame that we are some how responsible for being abandoned.
We were raised in the post Vietnam war era/ World War 2 parents.

I know in my case my father was a "NICE GUY" who was raised by his mother.
So much of what I learned to be a male came from my nice guy father.
So he was a conflict avoidant,co-dependent, enabling personality, so of course was I.
Of course as stated above - mothers and teachers also have some responsibility in this trait.

So I agree that nearly everyone on these boards can fall into some category here.
And of course another question is how do we keep our children and grand children from falling into the same trap?

[Ace_32]

No it's because of what I said above and people are terrible at DB. I guarantee you that in the beginning if the LBS said "get your $hit and get the fuch out of the house" at bomb drop you would see a ton more recons. Like in your sitch Bent you gave your W way too much time to get comfortable in a relationship with OM. Lucky for you that was the best thing that ever happened to you. You just don't know it yet.
[/quote]

LH i actually completely agree with what you said here, if i did that in the beginning and went NC from the beginning she probably would have second guessed her decision. And i also tried to nice her back the first few months and was always willing to talk whenever she wanted and was always there for her, basically let her cake eat while she looked for someone else... think with time i will realise it was a good thing, the people that know me best say the same thing.