I think I may have a difference of opinion with the larger group on the question of ultimatums. There are two problems with ultimatums. First, you cannot use an ultimatum to control the actions of another person, even though that is what you are trying to do. I won't fault anyone for trying, because the very first thing I tried was an ultimatum. Second, if you issue an ultimatum, then you absolutely must follow through immediately and stick to your guns. That is very hard to do. However, if you issue an ultimatum, follow through when your spouse picks the other person, and jump right on the DB train, I support that.
But, if you aren't going to follow through with the consequences of the ultimatum, do not give an ultimatum.
I think I may have a difference of opinion with the larger group on the question of ultimatums. There are two problems with ultimatums. First, you cannot use an ultimatum to control the actions of another person, even though that is what you are trying to do. I won't fault anyone for trying, because the very first thing I tried was an ultimatum. Second, if you issue an ultimatum, then you absolutely must follow through immediately and stick to your guns. That is very hard to do. However, if you issue an ultimatum, follow through when your spouse picks the other person, and jump right on the DB train, I support that.
But, if you aren't going to follow through with the consequences of the ultimatum, do not give an ultimatum.
-Spiral
Spiral, that is very well articulated and why we suggest LBSs don't issue them. Because 1) 99.999999% it is trying to control the other person. 2) because most LBSs are not strong enough to follow through on the ultimatum.
Which is why boundaries are much better. Boundaries are ultimatums without the ultimatum part (IE without the statement trying to control). So rather than saying to the WAS "If you do X, I will do Y." You just say to yourself "If the WAS does X I will do Y." That takes the control out, and also takes the making you look weak for not following through out. It still puts the onus of following through squarely on the LBS.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I stumbled on the forum about two months ago and have found the vets' comments on people's sitches sobering, helpful and right on target. I really need your advice and I hope someone finds a bit of time to provide some guidance.... I really appreciate everyone's wisdom and the shared personal experiences on the forum
Sorry to read your familiar story. I will give you my 2 cents.
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Long story short, she met this guy who was about to have his own divorce and they spend the evening flirting and kissing....A month after she met the guy at the event she went out to meet with him for drinks and something else. I found out on the next day that something was amiss but had no proof and the gaslighting was unbelievable. ....she admitted that the guy came to town to see her and they went out "for lunch"...and wants to move to a bigger city that is more than 3000 km away to be with him.
Do not try to control her. Control how you respond. Read the boundary thread.
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Since September of last year the interactions between us have gotten worse. We have decided to do an IHS and will go to mediation to figure out a few things that we need to straighten out. She has decided that she does not want to live anymore in the town that we lived for the last 10 years .... While we are doing the IHS she is still talking to her "friend" and is planning to go visit him soon for a few days, while telling me that she is visiting one of her girlfriends. We are doing IHS because she does not have the financial means to move out. I have asked her a few times to move out and told her that I do not want to live in an open relationship and if she doesn't want our family anymore she is free to go
If cheating on you crosses your marriage boundary, file for divorce. Part of divorce is someone moves out of the house.
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get your advice one one thing: As I am aware of all her plans to spend a lovely "vacation" with OM should I really push for kicking her out of the house? As in give her the ultimatum - she either goes to spend time with him and I will not allow her back home (her name is not listed anywhere on the home deed) ....It is very disrespectful towards me and very painful as well. I am planning to tell her that I know that her trip will be to meet OM and not her girlfriends (as she claims). Am I being too controlling in that situation?
When she lies, do not let her know WHAT you know or HOW you know, just that you DO know: "Do not take me for a fool, we both know that is a lie"
IHS---> While she is gone, take over the master bedroom if you haven't already. Carefully and respectfully put her things into the "Guest bedroom". Learn to Validate her feelings.
"I decided I will be sleeping in the MBR."
Let me know if you want me details.
I wish you well during this difficult period of your life. Just know that things do get better. We are all examples of people who are thriving after the worst events of our lives.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I understand kicking her out of the house is a gray area given the time we have lived together in the same place. I appreciate all the feedback regarding ultimatums as they really are hard to enforce. Another thing that is complicating the sitch is that S6 is fully remote learning due to Covid and one of us really has to be there with him to help him with school. As I am working out of the house, I will be complicating our things significantly in a very short period of time.
In the last few days we have had a few arguments and they are mainly over her planned trip. She seems to be backing off of the idea to go, but then again I realize that I am dealing with a very unpredictable person so her decisions can change 4 times in a single day. If she decides to go, the trip will be on her own dime or OM will pay for it; ever since I found the forum I stopped the pursuing with flowers and gifts.
IHS is extremely difficult as we still share meals together, she does the cooking, laundry, etc. and we also hang out with our friends (and S6's friends) together. They have no idea what is actually going on and perhaps think that we are just going through a typical husband-wife phase. Some days I feel like I am in a poorly written drama film where everything seems to be fine on the surface, but deep inside things are very nightmar-ish. When I first read the DB rules, I took note of the fact that one has to be extremely patient to be successful at DB, but lately I feel like after 2 years of the same I might be running out of patience. With each new lie and deceit that I uncover, I feel less and less in the mood for fighting for us.
dmrafa please get yourself to a lawyer. You are overdue for learning what your rights are (and those of your W). You are legally blind so to speak. Make a consultation with an attorney an immediate priority. A mediator is neutral and is therefore not on your side.
I assume that you have a guest room in your house as you have family coming in for months at a time from other countries. That guest room is where your W should be sleeping now. You can't physically force her there but you can tell her that is where she should be for IHS as she is the one who is on the way out of the R and the house. You stay in the MBR no matter what. If you're not there now, get back in there tonight.
Do you have command over your finances? Does W have access to accounts? Credit cards? Make sure you are on top of the financial situation. Two of my good friends who went through bad D's made some great moves early on that saved them each many thousands of dollars. Depends on the legalities in your jurisdiction to a degree. Don't let yourself get fleeced by W, she is not to be trusted right now if ever again.
You are 1.5 years post BD? What are your GAL activities?
What was W's job before COVID? Why can't she work and support herself in her own house? Are you funding her entire existence now? How is she going to pay for the trip to see OM? Please see above re Talk to a Lawyer and Command Over Finances.
I agree with the wise people posting here about No Spoken Ultimatums. Spoken Ultimatums are a self-set-up that usually ends with the issuer not following through because 1) they can't legally do it and/or 2) lack of backbone and/or 3) they really don't want the ultimatum result. Internal Ultimatums to yourself only please. That way if you don't follow through you don't look weak. But I do advocate following through so as not to feel weak. So mouth closed re ultimatums. Actions, not words.
Good job on terminating pursuit, keep it up!
Keep posting dmrafa, you will make it through this and believe it or not right now you have an amazing life ahead!
Do not argue with her anymore. Control how you interact and respond to her. Listening and validation (Understand how she is FEELING) when you interact.
Hi dmrafa. Welcome aboard, and I encourage you to post as much as you can, especially during your initial days here. I am sorry to hear about your problems, and the IHS.
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IHS is extremely difficult as we still share meals together, she does the cooking, laundry, etc. and we also hang out with our friends (and S6's friends) together. They have no idea what is actually going on and perhaps think that we are just going through a typical husband-wife phase.
May I ask, how the separation is distinguished? Do the two of you share the same bed? Do you still have sex with her? What has actually changed as a result of IHS?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
