Summary so far: H's behavior increasingly erratic, angry, confusing, judgmental, critical, etc for several years now, but I had attributed it to the immense stress in our lives with work crisis, narcissistic XW harassment, aging parents, and other stressful things happening all at the same time. Meanwhile, my health was deteriorating and I entered menopause early and really struggled with it to where I was in a fog and pretty shutdown and exhausted. H was not helpful or sympathetic and put added pressure on me to be more active and was angered that I wasn't doing more even as I was struggling to keep working and take care of the family. My personal self-care was pretty non-existent due to the fact I had nothing left for myself.
Meanwhile, my H mentioned he had a opportunity to meet up with an ex that I knew about while we were on a vacation in another state. I, totally trusting of him, encouraged him to meet up so that he could get closure on some things that I knew he struggled with on how that relationship ended. Anyway, after that I didn't think much of it...as I'd always been trusting and never had told H he couldn't communicate with ex's, especially if they are far away.
In the fall, he suddenly told me he want a D but couldn't tell me why. I begged, pleaded, cried and did all the things you do, and asked to go to MC, and he said he would think about it. Weeks went by and I felt even worse physically, and I told him I needed to know where we stood before the holidays. He finally told me he was done and I kicked him out. Before he left, I asked if he was having an affair, and he denied it. When he left, he seemed in a hurry and not emotional about it at all. I remember thinking that was odd. He told me he would go stay with a family friend in another state. I thought this friend would be helpful in helping him see his sitch differently.
After a few days I found out that he had rented an AirBnB in a town that I knew his XGF had a daughter. It was then I realized he was having an EA, which obviously would or had become an PA. I sent him a message that I knew what he was up to and only then did he admit to the affair. After some time apart, I encouraged him to stay at our home so that I could hopefully have the opportunity to reconcile. He stayed here as well as at another friend nearby, but still maintained he did not want to work on things and wants a D. I told him that due to my principals and couldn't just D without making effort...that I took my vows seriously. So I would not "help" in the process of D if he choose to move forward with it. During all of this, I've pretty much maintained a friendly attitude (however, maybe too friendly and giving in the opinion of some of my forum friends here), so over the last couple of weeks, I've been detaching more fully and not initiating contact and not engaging as much. He is currently staying at an AirBnB but popping over to the house almost once a day.
His friends and family are as in shock as I am. No one saw this coming and he has not turned to any of them in making the decisions he has made. Our kids, his kids from previous MR, are young adults, but not really sure how to feel, so they avoid talking about it and just try to support each of us. But conceding both their bio parents have ended their marriages with infidelity, I worry about their future relationships and I worry the effects will show up later in their lives. Of course H thinks they "will be fine".
My emotional state: Right now I do feel more detached from him and I am accepting that things will not change with him in the short term. I've discovered more lies and due to financial security concerns, I am gathering documents and plan to file for D...unless he files against me first...which process I know he has started. I am worried about my future, but I do know and feel I will be okay. I feel strongly that he is in a MLC and things with his OW will not last, but I have to protect myself in case he never snaps out of this new personality he is now. I've decided I can't be with this man who is currently showing this lack of character, integrity and with this level of selfishness.
Self care: I've come a long way with my health and am finally feeling physically better, and many tests have shown no serious issues. Many of my symptoms were related to hormone unbalances, but also the immense stress and anxiety of the last few years was sitting on my chest, but thankfully, there doesn't seem to be any serious heart damage. I'm still doing a few more tests to be sure, but so far, all good results. I've been exercising (yoga, walks), baking, reading (self care and self help books), baths, spending time with friends, and watching shows...which help me to relax. I have also done IC and am currently switching to a new one to better dig into my feelings and my own growth versus just dealing with the initial BD and the MLC. Someone to focus on me instead. I do feel a lot of sadness and disappointment, but I also realize I am not alone (thanks to you all), that I will be okay, and that I deserve better.
Friends and family: I've drifted away from many friendships over the last few years, as I felt like such a drag with all the stress that was happening in our lives as well as many of my friends could not relate to our life and I started to feel judged and misunderstood. I'm hoping to rebuild the ones that I think were true, and let the others go. My family has tried to be supportive, but no one really understands the feelings that I have as they have never experienced anything like this. I get a lot of advice that I feel helps 'them to feel better' about how they don't like seeing me hurting instead of what I really need in support and advice. So, I have shared less and less with most of them. I have one GF that I am very honest with, and I keep it at that. As for H's friends and family, many of them reached out in the beginning and were loving and supportive, but I've hardly heart from most of them, which is hard because I feel like I am going to lose this side of the family as well...and I have grown to love them very much. I do have a few H's friend who are really working to maintain a relationship with me and are frankly pretty angry with H.
Not sure what else to add here, but this is generally my sitch to date. I feel empowered to take my future in my hands. This is all I can control. So, one foot in front of the other...one day at a time...my journey continues...
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
Journaling: So today my old house has an issue with the plumbing. It was really hard to try to fix things myself as my H is not organized and I couldn't find any of the things I'd need to even try. So I pinged him and he came right over. He was pretty grumpy but helpful, and was frustrated as he was supposed to do a lot of business work over the weekend, and now this. It made me realize how often he has left things undone or uncared for, and then is angry when things don't go right. He spent most of the day on it and I left him to it. I stayed friendly but detached and didn't let his grumpy attitude get to me. In fact, I'm not feeling great today and took a long nap this afternoon.
He repeated what I'd heard a million times "work is so busy right now and I just don't have the bandwidth to deal with this this week". I thought back to all the times I did all I could (sacrificing my own self care) to allow him time to do work after hours, thinking I was supporting him, and he was off on his computer having an EA. So, I'm not feeling very sorry for him at the moment. Of course, if he can't resolve the issue tomorrow, he wants me to find somewhere else to do laundry and shower (during a pandemic) so he can put off fixing it all week. While he is happy in his AirBnB. I think I will call someone if he can't resolve it tomorrow. Definitely want it fixed before our son comes over next weekend.
I'm sure he will use this same excuse about work to postpone signing the agreement too. I'm expecting it. He mentioned he wants to discuss our sitch (aka the D). So I'm not exactly sure how to respond as I don't want to discuss it until I am ready to file. I think he also feels we can just be friends, and I don't think I can do that, and I'm not sure if that is something I should make clear verbally or just show it during the D process? I can be friendly and detached as we have the kids and work stuff to consider, but anything more than that I feel is not possible, considering the lies and betrayal.
How do the WAS assume a friendship after betrayal is even possible? Are they so self-centered that they do not see anything from the viewport of the LBS? There is still a part of me that wants to be the lighthouse and stand for him, but there is other parts of my heart and brain that are telling me that is not what I should do. How do I know if it's worth doing? How do you tell the MLCer apart from the person you married, and if they have changed for good? Or if it was all a mirage in the first place and maybe they were never the person you thought they were? If I move on post divorce with finding someone new, how do I know I won't pick a bad apple again? How do I trust my judgement? So much was hidden from me, so how can I be sure the next time? These are the thoughts and fears that I am dealing with lately.
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
How do the WAS assume a friendship after betrayal is even possible? Are they so self-centered that they do not see anything from the viewport of the LBS?
Yes, most of them are too self-centered to see anything from the viewpoint of the LBS. Your H is not going to be compassionate to your needs. Therefore, you need to be responsible for getting things done........like plumbing issues, etc. I don't know your financial situation, but if it were me, I would hire a professional plumber and give the bill to your H. Unless there has been some type of legal agreement about managing home repairs, I think he'll have to pay for it.
I'm going to give you a viewpoint from the other side of the street, so to speak. Although you may have seen your loss of self care as some type of sacrifice for your M, your H doesn't have what it takes to appreciate it. He only sees the outer shell of you. If you have let your health and physical appearance go, then it will anger him........if anything. Men are huge visible beings, as you probably know. They had rather see the house a little messy and the W looking good. As women, we often see it as being selfish to take time to keep up our appearances, rather than getting all the work done. However, I've seen this same scenario play out when the W becomes single again, and suddenly, she find the time to look her best.
Not many WAH's come to the board, but the success stories I've read where the H reconciled had a common denominator. Want to hear it? It's when the LBW stopped turning to him to do jobs around the house. It's when she started operating more independently from him. It's when she made big changes to her everyday self care. When she stops chasing after him and she starts having pride in herself, it shines through........and it makes more of an impact on him for what he's gave up. If you call him every time you need him to do something.........he sees it as pressure, and that old word we women hate.......a nag. I once read when a W repeats something one time, her H sees her as nagging. I suggest you make it very clear in the "agreement" who pays for what.
You said he spent part time at home. Is he still in an affair? If so, then doesn't that compromise your values? Are you sleeping with him? If so, then you are at risk, physically of STD, and at risk emotionally........which could be more devastating.
I do believe the dynamics of a WAH and that of a WAW are different, b/c the male & female think differently and do not operate the same. However, that's not to say you shouldn't GAL, detach, and set goals, 180's, etc.
Quote
I think he also feels we can just be friends, and I don't think I can do that, and I'm not sure if that is something I should make clear verbally or just show it during the D process? I can be friendly and detached as we have the kids and work stuff to consider, but anything more than that I feel is not possible, considering the lies and betrayal.
IMHO, the word "friends" is over-rated when it comes to someone who has betrayed you at the highest level. Especially, if that person is currently cheating. I think there is a big difference in conducting yourself in a friend-ly manner, and being their BFF. See what I mean? You can show class, poise, & grace, without being chums with him. If there is ever to be a friendship between you and H, it would have to come after he stops cheating and stops seeing you as his source of unhappiness. I just don't think you can do while going through this part of the sitch, but that's just my opinion.
I want to encourage you to stop thinking and acting as if he is still your devoted H. I'm sure that's tough, but it will help break the habit of immediately turning to him whenever something is needed. If you have always depended on him for most things, it may be difficult at first, but you'll quickly like being in charge of your own environment.
I would tell every single LBW out there to learn how to have spunk! You can be spunky and have class.
Last edited by sandi2; 02/21/2102:19 PM.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
First, just wanted to say that what you wrote about the connection and kindness of strangers really resonated. This is such a beautiful community. (((Elbereth)))
A couple thoughts for you. one, on the being friends-- I made it crystal clear to my H that we would NOT be friends in a D. This is one thing I stuck with from day one (also because I was infuriated with his ridiculous D fantasy where we'd stay BFFs and eat dinner as a family every night but then he'd go off to sleep with AP). I think you have to be careful that it isn't interpreted as a threat. I probably wouldn't bring it up. But when you start talking together about the future and what the D will look like, I'd definitely nip any of those fantasy BFF D scenarios in the bud. No, I don't want to co-own this house with you. No, I don't want to have any ties with you. No, we won't be friends. Friends don't lie and betray each other. I don't have room for a "friend" like that in my life. Etc.
I also agree with Sandi 100% about taking care of the house stuff on your own. Not even to show him anything (though I will say this did also have an effect in my R) but because you are fully capable of dealing with anything that comes your way, including plumbing issues, and who needs that deadbeat?? You can handle this all yourself. you don't need him. (And, he was not even able to handle it anyway... sounds like it is time to call in the professionals for sure.)
Good luck!
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Yes, most of them are too self-centered to see anything from the viewpoint of the LBS. Your H is not going to be compassionate to your needs. Therefore, you need to be responsible for getting things done........like plumbing issues, etc. I don't know your financial situation, but if it were me, I would hire a professional plumber and give the bill to your H. Unless there has been some type of legal agreement about managing home repairs, I think he'll have to pay for it.
I'm going to give you a viewpoint from the other side of the street, so to speak. Although you may have seen your loss of self care as some type of sacrifice for your M, your H doesn't have what it takes to appreciate it. He only sees the outer shell of you. If you have let your health and physical appearance go, then it will anger him........if anything. Men are huge visible beings, as you probably know. They had rather see the house a little messy and the W looking good. As women, we often see it as being selfish to take time to keep up our appearances, rather than getting all the work done. However, I've seen this same scenario play out when the W becomes single again, and suddenly, she find the time to look her best.
Not many WAH's come to the board, but the success stories I've read where the H reconciled had a common denominator. Want to hear it? It's when the LBW stopped turning to him to do jobs around the house. It's when she started operating more independently from him. It's when she made big changes to her everyday self care. When she stops chasing after him and she starts having pride in herself, it shines through........and it makes more of an impact on him for what he's gave up. If you call him every time you need him to do something.........he sees it as pressure, and that old word we women hate.......a nag. I once read when a W repeats something one time, her H sees her as nagging. shocked I suggest you make it very clear in the "agreement" who pays for what.
You said he spent part time at home. Is he still in an affair? If so, then doesn't that compromise your values? Are you sleeping with him? If so, then you are at risk, physically of STD, and at risk emotionally........which could be more devastating.
Sandi, thanks for your note. I agree with you, and will start to just hire people to do stuff. He just starts and doesn't finish things lately anyway, and I can see what you mean that it doesn't help the situation. Thank you for the 2x4 on that one. As for my appearance and health, it did slide a bit as I went through menopause. I gained some weight and I was pretty exhausted so I didn't fix myself up as much as I used to. I'm sure it played a role. I finally got healthier and that helped me. So I'm on the mend and will not allow my appearance to be affected again in the future. And yes, I made everyone and everything else a priority but myself. I won't be doing that again either.
He did spend part time in the home and lived in the basement when he did. I've not been intimate with him since the BD. I don't believe he had been with the OW before the BD but I have no proof. I agree that it would put me at risk for STD, as well as I am not sure I could emotionally be intimate with someone who is in an affair. So, that's where that has been.
Originally Posted by Sandi2
IMHO, the word "friends" is over-rated when it comes to someone who has betrayed you at the highest level. Especially, if that person is currently cheating. I think there is a big difference in conducting yourself in a friend-ly manner, and being their BFF. See what I mean? You can show class, poise, & grace, without being chums with him. If there is ever to be a friendship between you and H, it would have to come after he stops cheating and stops seeing you as his source of unhappiness. I just don't think you can do while going through this part of the sitch, but that's just my opinion.
I'm in total agreement. And that is why I feel I could not be 'friends' in the way HE thinks it would be. I had been friendlier as that was suggested by my marriage program as a way to try to reconnect and reconcile, but now that I feel that I want a D, I have backed off on the jokes, reaching out, extra friendly attitude...and well, he's noticed. Today he confronted me and asked if I was mad at him for something he'd done recently and was confused at how I've been less responsive (minimal text, not replying immediately to texts), etc. I told him, "you are having an affair with another woman and we are most likely headed to divorce so I am finding very hard to be friends with you". I told him "I will not be like your crazy XW, and I will work with you on maintaining things with the kids, etc, but I am struggling with being a friend to you with this situation as it is". We discussed some work stuff (he vented but it was stuff that also impacted me so I listened), and then I left the room while he stayed in the kitchen eating his lunch alone. So, I said it, I've made it clear we won't be friends, and I left the convo and the room first. And yes I will be classy! ha!
Originally Posted by May22
A couple thoughts for you. one, on the being friends-- I made it crystal clear to my H that we would NOT be friends in a D. This is one thing I stuck with from day one (also because I was infuriated with his ridiculous D fantasy where we'd stay BFFs and eat dinner as a family every night but then he'd go off to sleep with AP). I think you have to be careful that it isn't interpreted as a threat. I probably wouldn't bring it up. But when you start talking together about the future and what the D will look like, I'd definitely nip any of those fantasy BFF D scenarios in the bud. No, I don't want to co-own this house with you. No, I don't want to have any ties with you. No, we won't be friends. Friends don't lie and betray each other. I don't have room for a "friend" like that in my life. Etc.
May, I think there will be more convo on this in the future, but I felt that the way it was said it was not a threat, so it came up in the right way just as you described. I feel you... I feel the same.
PLC, thanks for popping by and the encouragement!
And I asked about the agreement again and he wanted a digital copy to mark up. Ugh. Still seems open to it, but not sure what to expect or when he will agree to sign it.
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
Oh boy. I'm shaking. My H came by earlier to swap vehicles and when I went to go shopping there was a couple of things on the passenger seat. I thought, "these are odd things for S18 to have" and started to look through them. I found a love note from the OW. I started shaking and just wanted to scream. I texted my H that I found this stuff and it doesn't feel good at all. I said some harsh things by text and left it at that. Then I continued my shopping trip while wanting to puke and shaking the entire time.
After being home a bit, I hear someone come over and it's the H. He feels bad and wants to talk about it. I try not to but I'm still so upset, and I've had wine, and I just am not nice...I'm raging. H tries all kinds of maneuvers, like "we were not happy, so why do you want to be with me", and "what can I do to make you feel better" and "I don't want to hurt you" and "why have you been so nice and are not so nice now"? And you were the one who wanted to postpone the D. I said "forgive me for wanting to process my life blowing up". I told him how he has no integrity or character, I asked if he had other affairs thought the years, I questioned why he's questioning me about how I've been acting when I didn't deserve this, etc. I told him this was his choice, and had nothing to do with my actions. He thinks it wasn't an affair and I had to point out that anything behind my back is an affair. Really? WTF? I was very angry. I didn't cry, but I'm on the verge now. I know he didn't leave the stuff in the car for me to find, but I've not really verbalized anything to him since this happened beyond a few initial things after the BD.
I've really said very little about how I actually feel, and how I realized he is not the person I thought he was. I know this is probably not what I should have done as part of DBing, but I couldn't help myself. I'm just so angry and sad. I told him I had hoped we could reconcile, but now I'm done fighting for us. So much for holding it together before I could serve him D first.
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
Thanks May, I'm sure most of it meant nothing to him and that even makes me angrier. He really has no idea of how his behavior affects everyone, not just me. I think he was taken aback by my response. I'm a very calm and level-headed person. So for me to essentially flip out on him took him off guard. But the ways he tried to justify himself shows how little he gets it. My BFF has been encouraging me to speak out to him and I've been telling her how it really means nothing unless I'm heard. And I don't feel heard by him. So to me, it didn't help me feel any better. I don't feel that lashing out to him is what I need to feel better. Focusing on myself and on relationships that matter is what will help me feel better. I will never feel better about what he has done. There is nothing that will help heal that feeling unless he hears it and feels it. And least in regards to my relationship with him. Does that make any sense at all? And as long as he can justify his behavior, be in his fog, feel that what he is doing is right, etc, it won't help me feel any better. It's up to me to find something to replace that elsewhere. I can't fix it.
I had a good cry after he left and had a good call with my BFF. I know I will be okay, but it sucked. And it sucked the energy out of my night when I could have been focusing on my S18, my growth, or something else that is actually productive towards my future.
Thanks for the hugs though... I appreciate it so much!
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
I can relate, I know that when I found things (usually I was snooping though, I didn't just stumble across it) it was very difficult not to confront. Most of us in the thick of our sitches get spinning when we find evidence of the OP. You're right, it wasn't the right way to approach it from a DBing standpoint, but very few people can control their emotions enough to just keep on DBing. Detachment is about the not emotionally reacting, but detachment is not a switch you throw on and suddenly you're detached. It is a process that takes time and effort to finally arrive at a high enough level to remain even through incidents like this.
I say all that to say don't beat yourself up too much. The problem with confrontation is that it rarely goes the way you would like it to. But water under the bridge, just keep working and focusing on you! Better days are ahead.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I suggest you make it very clear in the "agreement" who pays for what. 