Another LBH (kinda) pt. 4

[SaltyDog]

If your anxiety adds pressure, then that is clearly not working. Need to make a change there.

Yup, and it is something we discussed as well. She's asking for my to be open, so I am open and say "this isn't sustainable for me and at some point I will decide to stop the pain" which she then interprets as pressure because there's a expiration date. I told her she can't have it both ways - either you want me to be open which means hearing things you might not want to hear or you don't want me to be open because it causes you pressure.

his is the rationalization that so many LBS's make. Only emotional attachment could lead one to such a horrible conclusion.

I don't disagree.

Do you think she respects you?

A year ago? No. Now? Yes, or at least much more than she did. Is it enough? Don't know.

Do you think your behaviors are attractive to women?

Kinda the same answer as above. A year ago when I was depressed and withdrawn - nope. Today? Much moreso. It isn't like I'm going to bars or have an opportunity to be around "women" but I've found myself in conversations at grocery stores or other random places that didn't used to happen. There's a marked change in my outward energy and overall confidence.

[SaltyDog]

That is entirely possible. Or I could take the safety net away and she could still find someone else in which case I would always regret not just listening to what she's telling me she wants.

SD there needs to be non-negotiables in your life. I want to date other men should be a non-negotiable. What if she told you she wanted you to jump off the Eifel Tower? Would you listen to her and do it?

Obviously not.

Most likely because she is lost all respect for you.

Nope. She had lost respect for me, no doubt. But I can tell you without a doubt she has more for me now than she did. Might be too little, too late, but it is there.

Doubt it. You will always wonder what would have happened if you took your balls back from her and earned some respect.

There is more than one way to earn respect and show you have balls.

[LH19]

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I told you on day one I had hope for you and I usually don't have hope after reading opening threads.

I guess you hold out hope that because she is married and has three young kids she is not desirable to potential suitors and shell eventually gives up trying to replace you.

Only time will tell.

[SteveLW]

I guess you hold out hope that because she is married and has three young kids she is not desirable to potential suitors and shell eventually gives up trying to replace you.

Wow, SD is that true? "She can't find anyone better so maybe she'll come back to me by default!" Not sure that would be the thinking of an alpha.

[SteveLW]

There is more than one way to earn respect and show you have balls.

SD, so what are the other ways? What do they look like? For me there are two criteria for commanding respect:

- You act in ways that are worthy of respect
- You do things from a position of strength

If LH's characterization is correct and you want her to fail in finding someone else due to her circumstances so she'll come back to you....I am not sure that is living up to either of those criteria.

LH is really good at giving guidance related to finding your "balls" and earning respect. You'd do well to listen to his advice on that. But in the end it is up to you as to how you approach it.

[SaltyDog]

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I told you on day one I had hope for you and I usually don't have hope after reading opening threads.

I guess you hold out hope that because she is married and has three young kids she is not desirable to potential suitors and shell eventually gives up trying to replace you.

Only time will tell.

You have mis-read my posts if you think that is my hope. Quite the opposite actually. I think - if we end up back together - it will be because she chooses me, not because she settles for me. If she finds a "potential suitor" that she feels is better than I am, so be it. Happy trails. The improvements I am making to my life aren't to win her back, but to be a better version of me than I was. If she doesn't want to come along on that journey, then I'll continue on and maybe someone else will later. But I am confident she won't find a better man, whether she realizes it now or later remains to be seen.

[SaltyDog]

There is more than one way to earn respect and show you have balls.

SD, so what are the other ways? What do they look like? For me there are two criteria for commanding respect:

- You act in ways that are worthy of respect
- You do things from a position of strength

You can earn respect by admitting to past mistakes and showing a willingness to make improvements. You can make an effort to be true to yourself and find that self-respect and confidence that you lost somewhere along the way. You can show that you're willing to show up.

If LH's characterization is correct and you want her to fail in finding someone else due to her circumstances so she'll come back to you....I am not sure that is living up to either of those criteria.

His characterization is incorrect. I hadn't even considered she was somehow undesirable due to her circumstances. She's a smart and attractive woman so I doubt she will have a hard time finding potential suitors. I'm just betting on her realizing she already has what she is looking for. Maybe that's nuts. Maybe the pendulum has swung too far the other direction and I am now over-confident. Time will tell. And it isn't like I'm sitting around pleading with her, begging her, telling her I can't live without her, or doing all that stuff. I'm not perfect, but my focus is on me.

[LH19]

So I think you use a lot of good phrases and statements you pick up a long the way but right now you are fooling yourself. You are not being true to yourself because you are not ok with your Ws behavior. You can not nice her back. It just doesn't work that way.

Only time will tell so keep up with the positive changes.

[may22]

Well, I have a bit of a different take on this one and am fairly sure LH is going to disagree with me or say I'm still fooling myself too or whatever. Sorry, LH. We will probably just have to agree to disagree on this one.

First off, I have always had a visceral, negative reaction to all the alpha/respect talk on the board re LBHs. I just don't buy any of this finding your b@lls/ commanding respect cr@p. (Sorry, guys, I think that is just gross.) What I do think is critical is SELF-respect, and as I've followed along I feel like Salty is doing a lot of the necessary work to cultivate true self-compassion and self-respect. When you truly respect yourself, you don't need to trumpet it from the rooftops, or tell your W to GTFO, or anything else. You respect and love yourself, and no one can take that from you. That is what matters.

I agree with this:

You can earn respect by admitting to past mistakes and showing a willingness to make improvements. You can make an effort to be true to yourself and find that self-respect and confidence that you lost somewhere along the way. You can show that you're willing to show up.

Whether that's practiced with your kids, your W, your parents, your colleagues, your friends, or just really focusing on understanding your own values and aligning your actions with them-- to me, that is key. It doesn't mean you are trying to nice her back. It just means you are willing to listen, to change, and have a growth mindset. For YOU, not for her.

Here's my take. In my sitch I continually put myself five, ten years in the future and really spent time thinking about how I would look at myself and my actions and decisions today as my future self. It was very very important to me that I not have any regrets. And each person has their own individual line of what they can or cannot handle, what they will or will not regret. LH says you will regret leaving her the safety net. Maybe. It sounds like in your situation, that is how LH would feel. But you know yourself the best. What regrets do you want to avoid at all costs? What will be okay? What things are you willing to compromise on today in order to ensure you walk through your journey being true to your own values? Only you know yourself. I would challenge you to really think through all of this carefully and with radical honesty. You may very well find that you agree with LH and ending your current limbo is the right move. You may not. I just think the process is important and shouldn't be skipped over, and it will not look the same for every person.

The other thing I think is important is this-- if you are thoughtful and truly honest with yourself about what you're feeling and seeing, and really can look at your W and her behaviors without the rose-colored glasses-- I believe you *will* know when you're ready to move on. The vets say you have the gift of time... use it. Continue focusing on yourself and cultivating self-compassion and self-respect. Focus on your children and being the best dad you can be. Let go of that which you cannot control-- your W's thoughts and behaviors and whether or not she can figure her own cr@p out. Work on getting to a place where you are no longer tied to her emotions and actions. As you walk the path, you will find there are things you are doing today that no longer serve you, which could range from sleeping with your W to staying married to her. Or, maybe you are okay continuing as is for awhile. The point is it is your path to walk and you need to get there authentically.

Honestly, I think you're doing really well. Hang in there.

[LH19]

Well, I have a bit of a different take on this one and am fairly sure LH is going to disagree with me or say I'm still fooling myself too or whatever. Sorry, LH. We will probably just have to agree to disagree on this one.

That's ok May. SD should get other perspectives.

First off, I have always had a visceral, negative reaction to all the alpha/respect talk on the board re LBHs. I just don't buy any of this finding your b@lls/ commanding respect cr@p. (Sorry, guys, I think that is just gross.)

Well May do you know what I think is gross? Women who are married and having sex with their husbands and are on dating websites. Men having affairs with two young children. I would also like to add that finding your balls and commanding respect are what just about everyone one of Sandi's posts are about so it's just not a guy thing. Yeah I use the term from time to time but I am more about walking away from things that do no work for you.

What I do think is critical is SELF-respect, and as I've followed along I feel like Salty is doing a lot of the necessary work to cultivate true self-compassion and self-respect. When you truly respect yourself, you don't need to trumpet it from the rooftops, or tell your W to GTFO, or anything else. You respect and love yourself, and no one can take that from you. That is what matters.

He is making progress and I have commended him on it. I never told him to tell his W to GTFO so I am not sure if you are referencing another poster? What I was suggesting he do is tell her that this is NOT working for HIM. He is no longer going to the affair pad. He is going to stay in the house full time with the kids and she is welcome to stay too or she can go to the affair pad full time.
I agree with this:

You can earn respect by admitting to past mistakes and showing a willingness to make improvements. You can make an effort to be true to yourself and find that self-respect and confidence that you lost somewhere along the way. You can show that you're willing to show up.

I am not disagreeing with the statement. What I am saying is he is not being true to himself. He doesn't want to go to the love pad and be in this open marriage. He is doing it out of fear and then is NEVER a good position to be in.

Here's my take. In my sitch I continually put myself five, ten years in the future and really spent time thinking about how I would look at myself and my actions and decisions today as my future self. It was very very important to me that I not have any regrets. And each person has their own individual line of what they can or cannot handle, what they will or will not regret. LH says you will regret leaving her the safety net. Maybe. It sounds like in your situation, that is how LH would feel. But you know yourself the best. What regrets do you want to avoid at all costs? What will be okay? What things are you willing to compromise on today in order to ensure you walk through your journey being true to your own values? Only you know yourself. I would challenge you to really think through all of this carefully and with radical honesty. You may very well find that you agree with LH and ending your current limbo is the right move. You may not. I just think the process is important and shouldn't be skipped over, and it will not look the same for every person.

So May do you think it's possible that if he took my suggestion that down the road he may say to himself "I wish I would have given her more time to date other men while we were married"? Is that a rational regret? Or maybe a statement based on the fact that he didn't save his marriage.

Work on getting to a place where you are no longer tied to her emotions and actions.

So May what are your thoughts on how he can get there under these conditions?

So I am also curious how this ends. She decides one day ok I'm done. I have sewn my oats. As we were. Until what the next time SD isn't his best self then what it starts up again? As you know May there is a LONG road ahead if this dating nonsense ever ends.