New M, new WAW

[mako]

So W decided she wanted to go look at places to live, and she asked if I wanted to come. I had nothing to do and the kids were accounted for with the in laws so said what the heck I'll come along. So we looked around at local places where we might want to live, separately. This was a bit surreal and it is odd to me she asked me to go.

We have agreed to a 50-50 custody, so it's important for both of us to be at least somewhat in agreement with where we live, for convenience of the custody situation. For example, I don't want to live an hour away from her and it be difficult with the kids every week or whatever. Neither of us wants to stay in our current house. We've only been here a couple years so neither us nor the kids are super attached, and neither of us really wants to stay in the place where our marriage died.

As an aside, I think if this had happened to me in my first M it would have freaked me the F out, but while there were a few low points I was pretty much fine all day. Yes, it is reasonable to try and figure out where I might want to live when all of this is over. Like I said, where we live is going to matter to both of us and to the kids, so might as well think about it. Thinking about it is not going to change what my W thinks one way or the other so why not?

We had a few misses, and we also found a nice neighborhood that both of us really like. TBH if it was 4 years ago we probably would have moved there together. As of now I don't know, I need to think about it, but I think I could see myself there. It's still going to be some time until all that happens, but it's a start in figuring that part out anyway.

I think doing this and being alright with it is a good sign of starting to successfully detach. Don't get me wrong, I am still having difficulty eating with constant butterflies in the stomach and it's tough sleeping well so I am nowhere near all the way there, BD was really just a week ago after all. But it's something.

[BL42]

mako,

So W decided she wanted to go look at places to live, and she asked if I wanted to come. I had nothing to do and the kids were accounted for with the in laws so said what the heck I'll come along. So we looked around at local places where we might want to live, separately. This was a bit surreal and it is odd to me she asked me to go.

Not sure I would've gone house/apartment shopping with my spouse who wanted to move out / get divorced. Maybe at the beginning of my sitch, thinking for some bizarre reason it might help, but NO WAY where I'm at right now. Seems a bit like helping the undertaker measure you for your burial suit. Your time might've been better spent at the gym or lunch with friends instead. I'm no veteran here - I'm a year in - but just my $0.02.

[ovrrnbw]

Ha I love the detachment but I think you should have better things to do than help house hunt! Like anything else.

[mako]

Ha, I hear you guys.

My head is probably in a really unusual place right now where I’m still sad and raw and would love to work on the M but am somewhat detached at the same time. Maybe this is because the M has been slowly dying for some time and I’ve gone through a bit of IC about it already so I had come to terms with some things. It also helps that I do still enjoy spending time with her, if I was aware of an A or something things would probably be different.

[SteveLW]

I agree with ovrrnbw. Those two are mutually exclusive. You can be detached and still not go with her on her house-hunting journey. I know you are well versed in DB from your first sitch, but being her "buddy" is probably not where you want to be long term. It sounds like it was a decent time, but I am an advocate of being supportive of your WAS' desire to leave without actually helping them along that way.

For instance, my W wanted to work on her resume and even get interviewing books to prepare for her job search. She asked me if it was okay for her to buy the books. I told her "get whatever you need". However, I refused to help her write and edit her resume. We all have to draw our own line somewhere. You drew your line further than I would, doesn't make it wrong! But I do think you need to decide if you want to be her lover or her friend. And if you want to be her lover then do not settle for the latter.

[mako]

. . .being her "buddy" is probably not where you want to be long term. . . . But I do think you need to decide if you want to be her lover or her friend. And if you want to be her lover then do not settle for the latter.

Thanks Steve, this is the way of saying it that got through to me. I agree, still holding out for the former. Like you said with the resume, no need to go above and beyond for things that only really lead to the latter.

[LH19]

M,

I am really impressed with how you are handling this and how prepared you are the second go around. I am going to disagree with the consensus and say I don't have a problem with you doing it. If I am reading your sitch correct there is no sign of OM. You have a stake in the game because it will be a place your kids will be 50% of the time. It's all about attitude. If you are exuding confidence and detachment I see no problem.

Bottom line is go or don't go and it changes nothing right now. This is going to probably take years to play out.

[mako]

Yesterday we went (well, went on Zoom) to a mediator to start figuring out the splitting of property. We have done an excellent job in saving over the years which is great, but it's going to be annoying to basically cut the pie in half to support two households. I have outlined what I think is fair and she has been mostly receptive so far but hasn't been specific about the larger things so we'll see. Custody will be 50-50, I will still need to pay child support because I make a lot more than her, this is set by statute so that's easy to figure out at least. Alimony is iffy but at the very least it would most likely be short term. Again, we'll see. My stomach was in knots all day as this is just another step closer to D. More detachment needed.

We have been pleasant to each other so that's good, a lot of sitch's seem to have a lot of meanness in them but we are doing ok there. We both work at home but in different parts of the house (which we've done the past year anyway) so we don't see each other much unless we get lunch at the same time. At night she mostly just hangs out in our room so I hang out with the kids and then do my own thing when they go to bed. We are still in the same bed. As I noted above, I've always been of the idea that she can leave if she chooses but I am not leaving the bed. She slept in a different room the first night then came back.

This is how I feel about the house too, I'm not leaving unless we sell it and both leave. She has still been looking at apartments online. We have not planned another house hunting outing

It's been just 10 days since BD and I have lots of conflicting emotions. Like I said, sometimes my stomach is just in knots thinking about all this, and sometimes I'm looking forward to being out on my own and starting fresh.

[mako]

I haven't been here in a while, so an update.

Above I said I wasn't leaving the house. However, shortly after that post we agreed to separate. So we're alternating weeks, where one stays at our house and the other stays at their respective parents' house. This has been fine. I don't know if this was "right" or "wrong" but I don't care. It keeps some bit of normalcy for the kids and I've gotten to see more of my dad. Otherwise she was going to get an apartment and have them go back and forth and that seemed like a waste of money and not great for them. They'll have plenty of time for that later. Anyway, we're prepping to sell the house in the next couple months so this is short term anyway.

So far the weeks on are good, the weeks off are tough. I enjoy time with the kids and miss them. I've actually enjoyed doing work on the house that I had put off. When I'm away I feel somewhat lost, as it's in a temporary space and not really mine. I am looking forward to having my own place and setting up a home for myself. This last house, we moved in 3 years ago and the M was dying the whole time--it never felt like home to me.

After mulling it over for a good couple weeks, the other day I wrote her a last love letter, explaining how I felt through the past 12 years of knowing her. I know this is not in line with DBing, and one might call it a slip up but I don't think it was. It was something I needed to do for myself as I haven't always expressed my feelings to her all that well. I had no expectations of reconciliation so the intention was not pursuit, it came from another place, I don't know. She may have taken it that way and I know when spouses leave this isn't what they want, but that doesn't really matter at this point. TBH I didn't even expect a response since she had ignored R talk the past couple years. She did respond.

She said these are things I should have said all along, but talk is cheap. 2 years ago she decided she couldn't change me so she changed herself. Got a job, got new friends, and the past month (since BD) she's been happy. Spending time with friends, dating (?), growing.

She said if I want to be with her I need to change without her. She discussed various faults and that I need to go to therapy to address them. She mentioned a few non-negotiable deal breakers. She also basically told me to GAL because we were too codependent and she can't go back to that. Said she can't ask me to make changes because I have to do it for myself. That only after we find ourselves could we think about a partnership again. The man she wants is confident, driven, and affectionate. The woman that man deserves is patient, supportive, and loving. And right now we don't deserve each other.

She mentioned twice, at the start and the end, that therapy will not fix the M, and she's not going to wait around to see if I can do these things or not.

I responded basically thank you for pointing out these things, I'm not happy about where my life is right now, I know I need to make changes and I am going to do so. It was longer than that but probably didn't have to be.

This was an interesting back and forth and has, oddly, given me closure. She knows how I feel. She's still committed to a D and doesn't want to wait around or try to work on things. At the same time she gave me a script that basically follows DBing to a T--work on self, GAL, become the best man I can be. I can't really argue with what she said, and this is what I already knew I needed to do. I was surprised she even acknowledged the possibility of a future R. I wonder, when I get there, if she will be the one I want.

[LH19]

After mulling it over for a good couple weeks, the other day I wrote her a last love letter, explaining how I felt through the past 12 years of knowing her. I know this is not in line with DBing, and one might call it a slip up but I don't think it was. It was something I needed to do for myself as I haven't always expressed my feelings to her all that well. I had no expectations of reconciliation so the intention was not pursuit, it came from another place, I don't know.

Truthfully this letter should have been sent later IMO but no biggie as long as you are truthful that you had zero expectations.

Got a job, got new friends, and the past month (since BD) she's been happy. Spending time with friends, dating (?), growing.

Yep thats how they all feel in the beginning of the break up/divorce

She said if I want to be with her I need to change without her.

That you your royal heinous lol.

She discussed various faults and that I need to go to therapy to address them.

Do you agree with these faults?

That only after we find ourselves could we think about a partnership again.

This sounds like typical WW bs.

The man she wants is confident, driven, and affectionate.

Hmmmm. Right out of "How to be a 3% man" Wonder why Ginger hates this book?

She mentioned twice, at the start and the end, that therapy will not fix the M, and she's not going to wait around to see if I can do these things or not.

Yep it takes two to want to fix it.

I responded basically thank you for pointing out these things, I'm not happy about where my life is right now, I know I need to make changes and I am going to do so. It was longer than that but probably didn't have to be.

Yep. It's all about the ACTIONS now.

I was surprised she even acknowledged the possibility of a future R.

Please try to forget she never said that. Most likely throwing you a bone to string you along for a bit.

I wonder, when I get there, if she will be the one I want.

Probably not. You will be better so why would you settle for a quitter?