Following up from my other post

[Jhopeful]

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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2914797#Post2914797


Hi everyone. It's been a few weeks and I can now see how all the advice I was getting was good advice.

I don't know where to begin....I made a few mistakes...I'm concerned I ruined my chances even more. She's made it clear that she doesn't want to be friends if I have hopes that we would get back together again. People have said she's being clear and considerate and my heart hurt when I read that.

Yesterday I realized that I really must move on, move forward. I was having difficulty with letting go of hope (and to be honest I still do have some) and I'm seeing how it clouds my need to imagine a new future as well as healing my heart.

She is back on the east coast with our daughter for a week, she just found out her mom has cancer and only has a little time left. I gave up my weekend with my daughter for her to travel back home.

Her tone with me has been kind, direct and without any emotion whatsoever.

Every communication and text still hurts.

I'll follow up more later as to what has happened.

Thanks to those that were replying to my posts a few weeks back.

-J

[SteveLW]

When we last saw you, you were struggling on how to validate. Have been working on that? Have you improved in your validation of her feelings?

She sounds like she is handling this the way that you should be:

"Her tone with me has been kind, direct and without any emotion whatsoever."

This is how you should be dealing with her!!

"She's made it clear that she doesn't want to be friends if I have hopes that we would get back together again."

They all make this clear. And quite frankly, you don't want to just be friends, right? So turn this around (do not say this to her, this is for you). "I (Jhopeful) will not settle for just being her friend. Coparents? Yes. But not friends." The friend zone is awful. You think you are hurting now, imagine being "friends" and having her tell you about the new guy she is dating. I've been there. Done that. Do not ever want to be in that place again!

[LH19]

She's made it clear that she doesn't want to be friends if I have hopes that we would get back together again. People have said she's being clear and considerate and my heart hurt when I read that.

In terms of her feeling differently -- when you first met she didn't instantly want to marry you, then you got married and she didn't want to leave you, then at some point she did want to leave you. She was stubborn the whole time, made three decisions there and changed her feelings about the first two. That should prove to you that her feelings do change, and despite how she feels now, or what she says now, she may feel and do completely different things in the future. You have hard evidence of that.

The ride is just beginning. She won't be done with you for a long time, nor will you be done with her. Since you have a daughter together you will be intermeshed for 18+ years.

[Traveler]

While I wish for you that you could have the woman you desire, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your wife's reply. You can't simultaneously wear the "Friend" and "Wannabe Lover" hats, because she's not into you. If you were her friend, you'd be happy for her when she's taken on a romantic picnic and kissed by a guy she fancies. It's a choice. Do you want to be friends? It can work. My brother is friends with his ex-wife and her new husband. He hangs out with them with his new fiance. Even the folks who encourage that--it can be sensible if a friendship preceded the romance--generally advise taking a break first.

[wayfarer]

Hi Jhopeful,

Your tone sounds better than it did in your previous postings. I just a have a few things to add to what the fellas have been telling you.

1st - they often say around here don't believe what a WAS/WS says, when that's said they mean if they are making you promises or telling you they are confused. That they love you, blah, blah, blah. All the things they say to keep the LBS at arms length for as long as possible. But what newbies need to understand is another cliché, especially with a WAW/WW like yours who's calm and collected the majority of the time. "Believe people when they tell you who they are." Your baby mama is telling you exactly who she is over and over again and you just aren't listening to it or believing it. Believe it. She doesn't want you or a relationship with you. She moved out, and she moved out fast. most WAS's dawdle because it's harder for them to change their minds when they are out the door. That being said, if she's telling you you have no chance with her trust and believe that. However, That doesn't mean she'll mean that until the day she dies. It doesn't mean she'll even believe that in a year. But she believes it now and you better believe it now too, and act accordingly. Nothing makes some one more attractive to an ex than moving the h3ll on. You're hurting. You're still very much in love. So my dear, fake it until you make it. She is done with you right now. And you need to let her know the door isn't wide open for her to return.

Next her mother is sick. She will likely have to rely on you more than you'd normally be comfortable with while trying to detach and learn to let go. Others may advise against this but my dumpster fire of an exH stepped up when my mom was very sick. And while she wasn't across the country she was across the state. It was a really trying 4 years. The last year I needed a lot of help to keep my house running while I was away taking care of my mom. I didn't want to get back together with him, but he showed his daughter he's capable of compassion. And he showed me that he isn't trash 24/7/365. He worked well with my current H to make sure our kid was where she needed to be when she needed to be. It didn't exactly make up for all he put me through, but I can say a lot of the stuff I had been holding on to was a lot easier to let go of. If your ex needs help because of her mom help her. If you need to let the baby go to the east coast for a month don't fight over it. If you need to keep the baby for month figure it out. Do everything you can to make this part easy for her. Regardless of how awful she's been or may be in the future. This is really, really hard stuff. Also Mr. Nice Guy, be very careful that you aren't doing things during this time in her life because you feel like she'll owe you the same kindness in return. Or love in return. Or sex in return. Or literally any other kind of payoff. Do this because she's the mother of your child and your daughter's grandmother deserves to have her daughter by her side right now.

Lastly, get that custody and placement order in place ASAP. Your ex's mom is on the east coast and she's ill. And chemo and radiation aren't easy. They make a sick person sicker. Your ex is nurse. She is going to want to go home. There's a good chance she's going to want to move home and take that baby with her. The sooner you have things in writing the better. Get your court orders before this ends up hurting you more than you are already.

[Jhopeful]

Thanks everyone for the messages. Sorry about the delayed response....it takes some strength to come back here and I want to make sure I can be stronger and clearer for myself and out of respect for all of you...




Everyone in this thread and people around me are saying one of 2 things.

1) Let go, respect her and her decision.

(she talked about buying a house and last night during a baby sitter interview she mentioned how further down the road we will begin to talk to Poppy about why mommy and daddy don't live together.)

The first is hard for me, I just don't know how to let go of being in love with her AND when I see her AND when she send me text messages outside of picture of our daughter like this morning I get so confused:
(Picture of a vintage sweater with the text "Mom found this baller sweater I used to wear 😂"

She only likes my social media posts that have to do with our daughter, never any of my personal ones.

I really think she is conflicted AND she is the most stubborn person I know. I feel her conviction to be unattached. I believe she was working on herself shortly after she left the house and has begun her deeper healing work - and so am I.

I typically get real spun out when I relive the past AND now I know of someone that wants to date her - which is really getting me spiraling



2) Focus 100% on me (and not really mentioning anything about her other than people change their minds sometimes)

I am making good strides here. I'm learning how to emotionally regulate myself. I'm learning to start to envision a love that I want to create in the future, irregardless of who it is with.

ALL that being said: This break up has been a gift as I wouldn't have been able to access my shame, my addictions (to things on the internet) my anxiety, giving away my power, self regulation and putting that responsibility on to someone else and my low level anxiety.


Lastly, I've learned so much over the past 2 months about myself and relationships. Despite the biggest piece (#1) I do see myself as a really different man who is continuing to grow. I literally do feel like a different man.


Conflicted in what I sense.
Conflicted with how to let go of the desire.
Learning how to accept her decision (perhaps this is the pre-cursor to accepting all of her if we reconcile).



The part about her traveling more often and allowing her to take my daughter for long extended periods of time hurts (missing my daughter) AND I'm willing to do it because I care about the connection between her mom and my daughter AND I'm hoping she sees this as a positive thing and that gets reflected on to me AND she sees how I value family.


I did make a mistake this weekend - her sister sent me some photos of the birthday party that they held for her and I tapped back hearts all the photos....then I reply "I miss you guys and I wish I was there"


In 2 weeks our daughter will be 2.
We fought the day before she turned one, I was badly hurt and I decided not to hang out with them the morning of the birthday. In retrospect I feel so much regret, so much.....I'm almost in tears.....
Now my ex is having a birthday party with her friends who are flying here next week - my ex invited me.....
1- I'm torn whether to go or not....
2- I go and I was thinking of having my own party for our daughter later in the day and whether I should invite her and her friends
3- I don't go.....



-J

[Traveler]

The first is hard for me, I just don't know how to let go of being in love with her

That one's easy. While many switch from singing the praises of their ex to demonizing them when they let go--it's also okay to continue to love. Today I say, "I love you, my ex. May you find the happiness solo or with another that you didn't find with me." This is especially true when there wasn't an OM/OW before BD. Love wishes the best for another, even if that path takes them away from you.

AND when she send me text messages outside of picture of our daughter like this morning I get so confused: (Picture of a vintage sweater with the text "Mom found this baller sweater I used to wear 😂"

This is where you decide if you want to be friends. If no, stop texting pics. Even if you want to eventually be friends, a brief period (e.g., 12-24 months) of disconnecting is probably healthy for your detachment. I'd pick a period long enough you're not looking forward to the end or hoping for some change when it does.

now I know of someone that wants to date her - which is really getting me spiraling

The real question is if she wants to date. There are always other people if one wants them.

Lastly, I've learned so much over the past 2 months about myself and relationships.

Yes! Breakups are catalysts for change in our lives.

Focus 100% on me (and not really mentioning anything about he

Sounds great. Maybe, focus 90% on you? It's good to acknowledge and process what you're feeling.

I'm learning to start to envision a love that I want to create in the future, irregardless of who it is with.

I'm about to start working on that. What does your vision look like, and does your ex match it?

The part about her traveling more often and allowing her to take my daughter for long extended periods of time hurts (missing my daughter) AND I'm willing to do it because I care about the connection between her mom and my daughter AND I'm hoping she sees this as a positive thing and that gets reflected on to me AND she sees how I value family.

Oof, and you were on a roll. "I'm hoping she sees.. how I value family" - Expectations and nicing her back.

"I'm willing to do it because I care about the connection between her mom and my daughter " - Your connection to your D is at least as important and arguably more-so. This puts others on a pedestal.

Letting your ex take your D away for months is very questionable imho.

Now my ex is having a birthday party with her friends who are flying here next week - my ex invited me.....
1- I'm torn whether to go or not....
2- I go and I was thinking of having my own party for our daughter later in the day and whether I should invite her and her friends
3- I don't go.....

Will your D2 be sad if she has a party and cake and presents with mom and her friends.. then party and cake and presents with dad and his friends? Could being together confuse D2? There's more than one way to handle this. I'd probably have a separate party since you described it as the ex and her friends. I'd do a combined party if she invited D2's friends, but then, I'd ensure to alternate who does this each year.

[ovrrnbw]

The first is hard for me, I just don't know how to let go of being in love with her AND when I see her AND when she send me text messages outside of picture of our daughter like this morning I get so confused:
(Picture of a vintage sweater with the text "Mom found this baller sweater I used to wear 😂"

She only likes my social media posts that have to do with our daughter, never any of my personal ones.

I really think she is conflicted AND she is the most stubborn person I know. I feel her conviction to be unattached. I believe she was working on herself shortly after she left the house and has begun her deeper healing work - and so am I.

I typically get real spun out when I relive the past AND now I know of someone that wants to date her - which is really getting me spiraling

How to let go? You just treat her like someone you don't know. And yes, she is going to only like your daughter's picture on social media. I'd get off social media if I were you, but either way do you expect all of your ex's to like your stuff online? It's an unreasonable expectation at a time when you should have zero expectations.

Also, when two people split up, it is a given that they will date others eventually.

Go to your daughter's bday party, dress nice, put on a good outfit. Look good, sound good, feel good. You have to fake it here, act like you don't care and are moving on, act strong. Be attractive. Eventually you will have practiced this so much that you won't be faking it anymore. She'll be interested in you if you are strong, masculine but not if you are pouty and hurt by her not liking your facebook pictures.

[wayfarer]

Ok J - here we go,

The first is hard for me, I just don't know how to let go of being in love with her AND when I see her AND when she send me text messages outside of picture of our daughter like this morning I get so confused:
(Picture of a vintage sweater with the text "Mom found this baller sweater I used to wear 😂"

First there is no AND here. It's not letting go of being in love with your ex. It's accepting that it's over. She's the mother of your child. A part of you will always love her. Probably not in the way you love her right now, but love has many faces. If you keep thinking of this in the context of "I need to not love her" you're never going to get any where. You need to accept she doesn't love you back. You're head, heart and gut will figure the rest out eventually.

As to the random messages, many of the WASs here have a lovely little picture of how they will be BFFs and amazing co-parents out of the gate. No down time. No space for healing. No acknowledging the pain they've caused. Just a lovely little fairy tale where no one pulled the rug out from any one. Just a glorious amiable uncoupling decided upon mutually at the exact same time. But that's not reality most of the time. And that isn't what happened here is it? You do not have to be BFFs with the mother of your child because she is the mother of your child. Conversely being her BFF because you are still in love with her only serves her, and does absolutely nothing for you. You're hoping for a pay off here. You won't get it. I'm sorry.

She only likes my social media posts that have to do with our daughter, never any of my personal ones.

Yup. Because she doesn't want to get back together. She's already skipped right on to BFF co-parents as I just mentioned.

I really think she is conflicted AND she is the most stubborn person I know. I feel her conviction to be unattached

Yeah, you have no idea if she's conflicted, and if she is what she's actually conflicted about. You have to stop mindreading. It's only going to hurt you. I know you want to try to understand this so badly. We all did. We all do, but mindreading won't serve you. It will just make you spiral.

I typically get real spun out when I relive the past AND now I know of someone that wants to date her - which is really getting me spiraling

Both things are totally normal. And getting to the other side of that is totally within your control. You're anxiety is forcing you look backwards and pinpoint every possible mistake you could've ever possible made in the relationship and your desire to understand some of this is telling you had you made any of those changes or hadn't made any of those mistakes everything would be fine. It's not true. It's lie your anxiety is telling you. Hindsight is always 20/20. As to her dating. You are just as free to date as she is. I realize because you are in love with her still you're desire to do so isn't there. But you have to realize you don't own her. She broke up with you. She moved out. For all intents and purposes your relationship is over. It's going to hurt. It's ok to be upset. We are here and we can talk to you through this if you need it, but you had to know that was an inevitability. She has no intention on waiting for you they way you are waiting on her.

I am making good strides here. I'm learning how to emotionally regulate myself. I'm learning to start to envision a love that I want to create in the future, irregardless of who it is with.

This is good. This is positive stuff. Keep focusing on this.

ALL that being said: This break up has been a gift as I wouldn't have been able to access my shame, my addictions (to things on the internet) my anxiety, giving away my power, self regulation and putting that responsibility on to someone else and my low level anxiety.

Lastly, I've learned so much over the past 2 months about myself and relationships. Despite the biggest piece (#1) I do see myself as a really different man who is continuing to grow. I literally do feel like a different man.

This is really good introspection. This is all good stuff too. Finding the silver lining is so important right now.

Conflicted in what I sense.
Conflicted with how to let go of the desire.
Learning how to accept her decision (perhaps this is the pre-cursor to accepting all of her if we reconcile).

Bro this is mindreading. Then thinking there's some sort of magic button to stopping loving someone. Immediately followed by some really sketchy thought process that seems very NGS. In the worst sense of that. You accepting what happened doesn't help get to reconciliation or get you to a point where you are emotionally mature enough to accept a person as they are. You accepting her decision puts you in position to move on with your life. You moving on with your life and learning and growing as a person is a pre-cursor to being a person some one would want to reconcile with. I have so many questions as to why you seem to think accepting a decision she seems pretty committed to is a stepping stone in being in an adult mature relationship not full of unrealistic expectations and a grounded foundation of understanding and trust that is accepting a person as they are.

The part about her traveling more often and allowing her to take my daughter for long extended periods of time hurts (missing my daughter) AND I'm willing to do it because I care about the connection between her mom and my daughter AND I'm hoping she sees this as a positive thing and that gets reflected on to me AND she sees how I value family.

Sigh.......this is a payoff. This is exactly what I meant. Your ex's mom is sick. You do what you need to do to be a good co-parent and human being when a family is in a time of need not because you might get something out of it.

Now my ex is having a birthday party with her friends who are flying here next week - my ex invited me.....
1- I'm torn whether to go or not....
2- I go and I was thinking of having my own party for our daughter later in the day and whether I should invite her and her friends
3- I don't go.....

Don't go. You are not a couple. You are currently not a happy family in 2 households, that takes a lot of time and emotional distance. Have your own party on a different day. Your daughter is 2. She can't handle 2 parties in one day with out a meltdown. And no do not invite your ex's friends. Invite your friends. Or just have a super awesome daddy/daughter day. She's not going to remember this birthday anyway. You are.

[SteveLW]

Thanks everyone for the messages. Sorry about the delayed response....it takes some strength to come back here and I want to make sure I can be stronger and clearer for myself and out of respect for all of you...




Everyone in this thread and people around me are saying one of 2 things.

1) Let go, respect her and her decision.

J, what else can you do? You have no control over her. Lots of LBSs struggle with this, "I want to fight for my marriage, but am being told that I have to let them go!" It is kind of like when you aren't hungry and people try to get you to eat. Ever happen to you? You: "I just ate." Other person: "Come on, eat some of this I just made." It annoys you and the more they push the less you feel like eating. That is your WAW right now. She is full and you are trying to feed her. Your ONLY choice is to back off, let go, and let her make her decision. She may decide to keep walking away....or she may decide to come back (more on that below). Regardless, no matter what you do or say won't change that decision. But what you do or say can cause her to run the other way even faster.

(she talked about buying a house and last night during a baby sitter interview she mentioned how further down the road we will begin to talk to Poppy about why mommy and daddy don't live together.)

Ok, this seems like something that would need to be done. I am assuming this triggered you?

The first is hard for me, I just don't know how to let go of being in love with her AND when I see her AND when she send me text messages outside of picture of our daughter like this morning I get so confused:
(Picture of a vintage sweater with the text "Mom found this baller sweater I used to wear 😂"

Again, what other choice do you have? You either let go (metaphorically), or you wrap your arms around her ankle for dear life as she walks away (metaphorically).

And yes, WASs/WWs are very confusing. Just when we think they have no desire to be with us, they'll do or say something that makes us think "Hmmm, maybe they wan to stay!" The problem isn't her behavior (which you have no control over) the problem is how you react to it. You should still assume she is walking out that door and not looking back and act accordingly.

She only likes my social media posts that have to do with our daughter, never any of my personal ones.

A bit of a 2x4 here.. WHO GIVES A CRAP?!? Seriously, you are letting whether someone clicks like or not on certain social media posts? Are you for real? I never understood this. I've seen friends and family have falling outs over someone NOT liking a post someone else posted. It is so ridiculous I can't even believe that we have to have this discussion.

You really should do yourself a favor and delete (or suspend if that is too much) your account. You will be so much better off going through this if you stay off of social media. (And you can spare me the excuses why you can't do that....I've heard them all.)

I really think she is conflicted AND she is the most stubborn person I know. I feel her conviction to be unattached. I believe she was working on herself shortly after she left the house and has begun her deeper healing work - and so am I.

LBSs always say this. "He/she is so stubborn they'll NEVER change their minds!" Really? So standing up in front of witnesses and God and pledging their life-long commitment to you and you MR wasn't enough for their stubbornness to kick in and say they were never changing their mind? If they changed their mind about being married, they can change it again to remaining married.

I typically get real spun out when I relive the past AND now I know of someone that wants to date her - which is really getting me spiraling

Focus on what you can control. This is not it. Even if she leaves you and never dates again, but never comes back to you, that doesn't change anything right? And if she does date or even remarry, the bottom line is she still isn't with you. You are focusing on something that may or may not ever happen, and even if it did there is nothing you can do about it. Focus on what you can control which leads us too......

2) Focus 100% on me (and not really mentioning anything about her other than people change their minds sometimes)

I am making good strides here. I'm learning how to emotionally regulate myself. I'm learning to start to envision a love that I want to create in the future, irregardless of who it is with.

I hope you are right because the first half of this post was NOT at all reflective of you making good strides here. Worried about what she says to babysitters, what she likes on SM, that she might date in the future.....none of that is focusing 100% on you.

ALL that being said: This break up has been a gift as I wouldn't have been able to access my shame, my addictions (to things on the internet) my anxiety, giving away my power, self regulation and putting that responsibility on to someone else and my low level anxiety.

I like this a lot. This is where you should be focused. Becoming the best person you can be. Regardless of what she decides. And patterning your behaviors around this. Getting off of SM. Committing to IC one a week. Reading as many self-help books that you can. GAL and staying busy. Typing the above paragraph without the behaviors to back it up is meaningless. Organize your life around it!

Lastly, I've learned so much over the past 2 months about myself and relationships. Despite the biggest piece (#1) I do see myself as a really different man who is continuing to grow. I literally do feel like a different man.

Remember, organisms are either growing....or dead. Never stop growing!

Conflicted in what I sense.
Conflicted with how to let go of the desire.
Learning how to accept her decision (perhaps this is the pre-cursor to accepting all of her if we reconcile).

When you stop focusing on her the conflict in what you sense will ease.
When you focus on yourself the conflict on letting go of desire will ease.
When you focus on you then you will learn to accept her decision, regardless of what it is.

The part about her traveling more often and allowing her to take my daughter for long extended periods of time hurts (missing my daughter) AND I'm willing to do it because I care about the connection between her mom and my daughter AND I'm hoping she sees this as a positive thing and that gets reflected on to me AND she sees how I value family.

DROP EXPECTATIONS. You do this because it is the right thing to do, regardless of how it "hurts". But hoping to score brownie points by "letting" her travel is Nice Guy Syndrome stuff. Something to work on.

I did make a mistake this weekend - her sister sent me some photos of the birthday party that they held for her and I tapped back hearts all the photos....then I reply "I miss you guys and I wish I was there"

Not sure this is a mistake as much as it shows how attached you still are. A simple thank you would have sufficed. Remember, the less you say the better.

In 2 weeks our daughter will be 2.
We fought the day before she turned one, I was badly hurt and I decided not to hang out with them the morning of the birthday. In retrospect I feel so much regret, so much.....I'm almost in tears.....
Now my ex is having a birthday party with her friends who are flying here next week - my ex invited me.....
1- I'm torn whether to go or not....
2- I go and I was thinking of having my own party for our daughter later in the day and whether I should invite her and her friends
3- I don't go.....

It is your daugther's b-day. Go. And that doesn't mean you can't have your own party for your daughter later that day. I would NOT invite her and her friends. Maybe invite her, but very casually. Something like 'I am having another small party for her this evening for my family and friends. You are welcome to attend." And leave it at that. No expectations. No "she likes me!" if she comes, and no "it is the end of the world!" if she doesn't.

-J

Keep working, you will get through this!