On the nesting, I am not a big fan of it. First, nesting just delays the inevitable. The kids wills end up in the new normal of going between their mom's and their dad's places eventually, so nesting is temporary. Further, most LBSs struggle with it (like you have). It just isn't sustainable. AND the worst part, is that it let's the WAS cake eat. They get to come play house in the marital home, and then go off for a week and be girls gone wild. It is no path to R if that is what your goal is.
As far as the love letter. IF you did it with no expectations, and just to get it off your chest so that you could move forward and say that she knew in no uncertain terms how you felt, fine. However, most LBS lie to themselves. 99.9999999999% of LBS do hope it will spark a R. That the WAS will go "wow, they really do love me and care about me and I am better off staying than going!" Secondly, more than likely your letter said nothing she didn't already know or had heard before. Therefore it was superfluous. This is why we typically advise against long, heartfelt letters and emails like this.
As far as:
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She said if I want to be with her I need to change without her. She discussed various faults and that I need to go to therapy to address them. She mentioned a few non-negotiable deal breakers. She also basically told me to GAL because we were too codependent and she can't go back to that. Said she can't ask me to make changes because I have to do it for myself. That only after we find ourselves could we think about a partnership again. The man she wants is confident, driven, and affectionate. The woman that man deserves is patient, supportive, and loving. And right now we don't deserve each other.
This was an interesting back and forth and has, oddly, given me closure. She knows how I feel. She's still committed to a D and doesn't want to wait around or try to work on things. At the same time she gave me a script that basically follows DBing to a T--work on self, GAL, become the best man I can be. I can't really argue with what she said, and this is what I already knew I needed to do. I was surprised she even acknowledged the possibility of a future R. I wonder, when I get there, if she will be the one I want.
Wow, amazing! Your STBXW is a DB guru! Imagine that if the day you arrived to this forum, you committed to this this plan: GAL, work on yourself (180s and improvements), and detaching (IE stop being codependent), where do you think your sitch would be today? I know hindsight is 20/20, but she just said what this board tells you to do! Focus on yourself, etc. If only every newcomer could read this and learn from it.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Truthfully this letter should have been sent later IMO but no biggie as long as you are truthful that you had zero expectations.
This is probably true that it's too soon, but I think my head was in the right place. I think I said above somewhere...my BD was about a month ago, but also sorta had one a few years ago. I think I have been expecting this for some time and thus had somewhat come to terms with it already when it happened. A lot of times I think at the beginning you think you can just do that one last grand gesture to change things, but I was not at all under that delusion.
Originally Posted by LH19
Probably not. You will be better so why would you settle for a quitter?
LH, I don't agree with all you say but I do like the attitude you bring to these boards.
This is what it will all come down to. I do think that she is correct in some of the faults she sees in me, and I do think she recognizes her own faults and has worked a bit to change some things. At the same time, she was willing to reject me and throw out 10 years of history and our family without really putting in any significant effort into working at it. She was willing to tell me the problems she had, which was great. But then at the same time basically gave up on me and put me through a test period to see if I'd fix things--while also treating me like dirt, which wasn't really conducive to the kinds of things she wanted to see. That's not very appealing and as I say in the OP I was probably not all that far from walking myself.
Last time I got a D, I would have jumped at the chance to R a few months in, but then by maybe a year later I knew 100% it was the right thing and I wanted nothing to do with her. So for now I'll just keep an open mind, but we'll have to see who we are if that time ever comes around.
Me: 43 W: 41 Together 2009, Married 2011 Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5 Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
On the nesting, I am not a big fan of it. First, nesting just delays the inevitable. The kids wills end up in the new normal of going between their mom's and their dad's places eventually, so nesting is temporary. Further, most LBSs struggle with it (like you have). It just isn't sustainable. AND the worst part, is that it let's the WAS cake eat. They get to come play house in the marital home, and then go off for a week and be girls gone wild. It is no path to R if that is what your goal is.
I hear that. I didn't really like either option TBH. The mediator said we needed to separate to start the process and this seemed the least bad way. And yeah, temporary works both ways--it's temporary so you might as well just do it for a bit, or it's temporary so there's no need to do it. I agree it isn't a path to an R, which, while I am often all over the place, I would still be happy to try at this point. I don't see any path to an R with her right now though.
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As far as the love letter. IF you did it with no expectations, and just to get it off your chest so that you could move forward and say that she knew in no uncertain terms how you felt, fine. However, most LBS lie to themselves. 99.9999999999% of LBS do hope it will spark a R. That the WAS will go "wow, they really do love me and care about me and I am better off staying than going!" Secondly, more than likely your letter said nothing she didn't already know or had heard before. Therefore it was superfluous. This is why we typically advise against long, heartfelt letters and emails like this.
This is definitely fair and I agree with you. I think I'm not lying to myself. I elaborated a bit more to LH above. I also don't think it was superfluous and that I did say some things I didn't say before. In any case, I don't think I had expectations, at least consciously
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Wow, amazing! Your STBXW is a DB guru! Imagine that if the day you arrived to this forum, you committed to this this plan: GAL, work on yourself (180s and improvements), and detaching (IE stop being codependent), where do you think your sitch would be today? I know hindsight is 20/20, but she just said what this board tells you to do! Focus on yourself, etc. If only every newcomer could read this and learn from it.
Yeah, I was actually amused to read it. I think it's just the general way that you have to deal with this type of thing. The sooner the LBS gets it, the better.
Me: 43 W: 41 Together 2009, Married 2011 Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5 Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
Work on yourself and become the best version of yourself and I can almost guarantee you won't want her back.
IF you do the work and apply what you have learned here, you will attract women far better for you than your WW ever was. It's just the natural result of DBing for YOU, and not trying to manipulate your W back into a relationship with you.
It's been 16 months since BD for me, I can honestly say I have never had more fun than I am right now. My BD was truly a blessing for me, I just couldn't see it at the time.
On the nesting, I am not a big fan of it. First, nesting just delays the inevitable. The kids wills end up in the new normal of going between their mom's and their dad's places eventually, so nesting is temporary. Further, most LBSs struggle with it (like you have). It just isn't sustainable. AND the worst part, is that it let's the WAS cake eat. They get to come play house in the marital home, and then go off for a week and be girls gone wild. It is no path to R if that is what your goal is.
I hear that. I didn't really like either option TBH. The mediator said we needed to separate to start the process and this seemed the least bad way. And yeah, temporary works both ways--it's temporary so you might as well just do it for a bit, or it's temporary so there's no need to do it. I agree it isn't a path to an R, which, while I am often all over the place, I would still be happy to try at this point. I don't see any path to an R with her right now though.
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As far as the love letter. IF you did it with no expectations, and just to get it off your chest so that you could move forward and say that she knew in no uncertain terms how you felt, fine. However, most LBS lie to themselves. 99.9999999999% of LBS do hope it will spark a R. That the WAS will go "wow, they really do love me and care about me and I am better off staying than going!" Secondly, more than likely your letter said nothing she didn't already know or had heard before. Therefore it was superfluous. This is why we typically advise against long, heartfelt letters and emails like this.
This is definitely fair and I agree with you. I think I'm not lying to myself. I elaborated a bit more to LH above. I also don't think it was superfluous and that I did say some things I didn't say before. In any case, I don't think I had expectations, at least consciously
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Wow, amazing! Your STBXW is a DB guru! Imagine that if the day you arrived to this forum, you committed to this this plan: GAL, work on yourself (180s and improvements), and detaching (IE stop being codependent), where do you think your sitch would be today? I know hindsight is 20/20, but she just said what this board tells you to do! Focus on yourself, etc. If only every newcomer could read this and learn from it.
Yeah, I was actually amused to read it. I think it's just the general way that you have to deal with this type of thing. The sooner the LBS gets it, the better.
mako, if you did not have expectations and said things she hadn't heard before with the letter, than no harm no foul! If it was merely to get things off your chest so you could move on without regrets, then I actually support it. But it has to be with all of that or it is a setback (this is for any newcomers reading this).
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks Steve. I appreciate the distinction and also that it is useful to point out for any newbies reading. Part of the benefit here is to read and learn from what others are doing and going through.
Me: 43 W: 41 Together 2009, Married 2011 Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5 Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
Yeah, since it is such a common mistake for LBSs to make. A newcomer to the board just said they sent a long love letter before finding DB. It is one of those instinctual, intuitive things to do!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
On the nesting, I am not a big fan of it. First, nesting just delays the inevitable. The kids wills end up in the new normal of going between their mom's and their dad's places eventually, so nesting is temporary. Further, most LBSs struggle with it (like you have). It just isn't sustainable. AND the worst part, is that it let's the WAS cake eat. They get to come play house in the marital home, and then go off for a week and be girls gone wild. It is no path to R if that is what your goal is.
Well, I am going back to the house. I got a second opinion and determined my first mediator was wrong about the necessity of separating, and I told W I wasn't going to do it anymore. So that's that. Now I have a bit longer before I have to split time with the kids.
Me: 43 W: 41 Together 2009, Married 2011 Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5 Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
Well, I am going back to the house. I got a second opinion and determined my first mediator was wrong about the necessity of separating, and I told W I wasn't going to do it anymore. So that's that. Now I have a bit longer before I have to split time with the kids.
Good. That's a power move. Make sure to do it out of strength. Let her move out if she wants to.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Good job, mako! Never seen anything good come out of "nesting" for the LBS who wants to reconcile in real life or these forums. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's a great setup for the WAS/WWS. It's also worth more consideration for kids with special needs where medical equipment is impractical to duplicate.
