It was MLC. Now I am calling moving forward.

[Ready2Change]

From my personal notes about "toxic parents":

If you fail to take a firm stand in support of your relationship with them, how can you expect them to withstand your x’s manipulation.

[Wolfman]

So I went to pick up my daughter today. Her mom came home early and parked her car I. The garage so I wouldn’t know she was there. I picked up my son from school which is literally across the street. He wanted to play basketball for a little. It started to rain a little so we decided to leave. As we start to pull up to their moms house, their pulls out of the garage with my d in her car. I pulled up and said what’s going on? I am supposed to pick up my d. She said she left work early because my d was terrified I was coming to pick her up. Terrified, I have done nothing to my d for her to feel that way. You all say to focus on me, I am but my ex is completely destroying my relationship with my d. It was funny because my ex looked like a deer in head lights when I pulled up, she thought I was gone. Showing once again the alienation. I am at the point do I just give up on my d? Or do I fight through court to get her back? I am mentally exhausted and this is not fair to my gf while she is pregnant, because she see how it upsets me. And we should be happy about having a baby in a month.

[kml]

Did she LOOK terrified? What did D say to you?

[Dawn70]

That’s a lot of speculation on your part. How do you know XW parked in the garage so you wouldn’t see her car? Deer in the headlights look on XW doesn’t really track either. And honestly, whether your daughter said she was terrified or not, I still don’t see how this is alienation. Did she physically block you from talking to your d? You have NO idea what is being said when you aren’t around and there could be many reasons your d is not wanting to spend time with you. She’s a teenager! I agree with everyone’s advice to focus on you and just treat your d with kindness and love. Playing tug of war with your XW using your d as the rope is only going to end badly for all of you. If she won’t come with you, enjoy time with your son. Let her know she is missed and that you love her but you respect her boundaries. Stop expending your energy trying to prove parental alienation when that energy could be expended on something positive.

[Traveler]

As we start to pull up to their moms house, their pulls out of the garage with my d in her car. I pulled up and said what’s going on? I am supposed to pick up my d. She said she left work early because my d was terrified I was coming to pick her up.

Hi Wolfman,

Okay. So, what did you do? I'm imagining myself in this situation--((turns away from ex-wife)) "Hey D, you look scared. That's totally okay. Is it my GF? My new place? Me? I get you don't want to be around GF. Would you like to get dinner--just son, you, and I--then return to mom's? Not tonight? That's okay. I love you always. If you change your mind, text me, else I'll be here the same time with the same question next week."

I am at the point do I just give up on my d?

I'd hope not! What message does that send? What does that say about your feelings towards her?

Or do I fight through court to get her back?

I would fight through court for any proven misbehaviors by your ex.

I am mentally exhausted and this is not fair to my gf while she is pregnant, because she see how it upsets me. And we should be happy about having a baby in a month.

If you're having trouble coping, seek your own therapist. If a therapist is too expensive, seek a life couch. If that's too expensive, seek a free support group. It's totally okay not to be happy all the time when going through this. I agree you don't want to put too much emotional weight on your pregnant GF. From this place of strength, fight for your D with love and understanding, and fight your ex-wife in court with facts showing any wrongdoing. OR, if you're not up to fighting your ex-wife in court, accept that and reach out to her as the one with the power.

[Wolfman]

I am supposed to have my d for the weekend. How do I go about approaching this. I spoke to some very close friends and I am so confused. Do I just back off and let her be, but basically ruining myself for ever trying to fight for her in court. Or do I go to the house to pick her up and when she doesn’t come file a report with police that it’s custodial interference? This way I document it and have it for court. Ugh this is just horrible.

[Wolfman]

Did she LOOK terrified? What did D say to you?

D did say anything. Ex did all the talking. She said she came home because my d was terrified to go with me. Terrified? Right before this “2 week break” with my d I took my kids to a museum in the city and lunch. We had a great time. I said I was trying to call my d. Ex’s response was she text you. I said I know but I would have liked to talk to her on the phone. Ex response was why? If you were texting her. My d said nothing.

That’s a lot of speculation on your part. How do you know XW parked in the garage so you wouldn’t see her car? Deer in the headlights look on XW doesn’t really track either. And honestly, whether your daughter said she was terrified or not, I still don’t see how this is alienation. Did she physically block you from talking to your d? You have NO idea what is being said when you aren’t around and there could be many reasons your d is not wanting to spend time with you. She’s a teenager! I agree with everyone’s advice to focus on you and just treat your d with kindness and love. Playing tug of war with your XW using your d as the rope is only going to end badly for all of you. If she won’t come with you, enjoy time with your son. Let her know she is missed and that you love her but you respect her boundaries. Stop expending your energy trying to prove parental alienation when that energy could be expended on something positive.

She never parks her car in the garage. So obviously she was trying to hide that she was home. My d did t say she was terrified never did she say that is our text conversation, my ex said it in front of her. You mentioned I have no idea what is being said when I am not around. I do a while back and yes I know I said a while back I saw my d cell phone and the conversations she was having with her mom. Her was saying things like to hide things from me, aren’t you happy you don’t have to spend time with dad, that I am a loser, things like that. So, I can’t imagine it has ever got better.
C.W. Your first response about taking her to dinner with just my son, I have been doing that for 8 months now. For my d at times I have put my pregnant gf on the back burner to appease my d.

[Traveler]

Hi Wolf,

I encouraged love and understanding towards your daughter and fighting any ex wrongdoings in court.

When you met your D and XW, I wouldn't say engaging in a negative conversation with only your ex-wife and expressing displeasure at her decisions ("I said I know but I would have liked..") falls along that continuum. I get the word "Terrified" may have triggered you. The path you're on isn't improving your relationship with D or XW (who you're allowing to be a gatekeeper). Giving up on D doesn't get you closer to D (ever). You say you already have many documented wrongdoings--so continuing to do so without fighting in court doesn't get you closer to D.

Your relationship with your D is in a tough place. Your D is your family. You are one of two rocks she should be able to count on in her life. I hope you continue to work to salvage your relationship with her.

[Traveler]

Yes, we keep saying focus on you and your D!

I pulled up and said what’s going on? I am supposed to pick up my d. She said she left work early because my d was terrified I was coming to pick her up. said I was trying to call my d. Ex’s response was she text you. I said I know but I would have liked to talk to her on the phone. Ex response was why? If you were texting her. My d said nothing.

If you're going to call your lawyer for an emergency hearing to fight your XW in court. There's no need to continue talking to XW after establishing she's violating the custody agreement. If I understood correctly, this is the first time you've seen your D in two weeks. Wouldn't this be a great time to talk to her directly for a few minutes?

[Dawn70]

She never parks her car in the garage. So obviously she was trying to hide that she was home. My d did t say she was terrified never did she say that is our text conversation, my ex said it in front of her. You mentioned I have no idea what is being said when I am not around. I do a while back and yes I know I said a while back I saw my d cell phone and the conversations she was having with her mom. Her was saying things like to hide things from me, aren’t you happy you don’t have to spend time with dad, that I am a loser, things like that. So, I can’t imagine it has ever got better.
C.W. Your first response about taking her to dinner with just my son, I have been doing that for 8 months now. For my d at times I have put my pregnant gf on the back burner to appease my d.

Listen, I'm not going to argue with you, because as I read back through your posts, many offer you advice and you tend to deflect it pretty regularly and continue to blame your XW for everything. I will just say you are STILL speculating a LOT. So what if she doesn't normally park in the garage...you yourself said it had started to rain and maybe she had stuff in the car she didn't want to get wet. I don't know, but this whole thing is not just about you, so there could have been a completely different motive on her part that had absolutely nothing to do with hiding from you.

As far as knowing what is being said, I understand you saw texts on your d's phone, but those are snippets. You are not privy to the conversations that go in within their household. I'm not saying that it is likely that those conversations are a lot different than the text you saw, but you do NOT know everything being said...it just simply isn't possible that you do, just because you saw some texts. (Which by the way, tells me you were snooping on your daughter's phone and could be one reason she has pulled back from you.)

CW gave you some FANTASTIC advice. I'd listen to him because he sounds wise. If you have documented this alienation on your XW's part, STOP trying to communicate with her and communicate with your lawyer. You're allowing her to have control in a situation where it isn't really warranted. The courts are going to listen to your d, but if you have proof that there is interference from your XW, they can intervene. I highly recommend that you get yourself some counseling too. You may not think it is necessary, but it can go a LONG way to helping you find your footing in this uncertain situation.