R2C I'm genuinely disappointed this quote made it to this thread.
I debated in my head if I should quote it. I prefer to quote actual DB poster's words rather than a quote of a quote.
Words are abstract and have different meanings to different people. I have learned not to judge other peoples poor choice of words, but to listen to them to understand the true message they are attempting to pass along. I do not know who Coach Wayne is, but those are his words he chose to use at that time. I can see how you interpreted his words different than I did.
When I read it, I reflected back to the two long term relationships I have had. The way I behaved over a course of 18 years with my X that lead to the end of my marriage compared to the way I have been behaving over the past 10 years with my current woman. I completely related to his message.
There are times when being overly emotional is perfectly OK. There are other times when completely controlling your emotions is the best choice. The problem is when one doesn't even know there is an option to behave the other way.
Congruency of thoughts, words and action (and I throw in core beliefs, body language, facial expressions, tone and inflections) is also something we all should master. Men and woman.
From my personal experience and observations, I believe this to be a true statement: "Wives that make all of the decisions results in resentment and a loss of respect, affection and intimacy to the Husband."
I believe the wife wants a partner, not a man behaving like a child. A man making decisions is attractive. Most men here need a boost in confidence and a new set of skills to get them headed in the right direction.
Wayfarer, you are in a very unique position where you can help point the men here in that direction. What traits of your husband do you admire and find attractive? Which areas need improvement, how swould you prefer him behave compared to how is is behaving?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I agree Corey's words weren't the best, e.g. “When men become the women in their relationships by becoming.. unsure of themselves"--he asserts low confidence is feminine. A study of ASU students with a 3.3 GPA found that men believed they were smarter than 66% of other students, while women felt they were smarter than 54% of other students. There's a gap, but both genders generally believed in themselves. When dating, I don't seek out "unsure of themselves" as feminine. Confidence is sexy in any gender!
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
I believe the wife wants a partner, not a man behaving like a child. A man making decisions is attractive. Most men here need a boost in confidence and a new set of skills to get them headed in the right direction.
Maybe we can replace Corey's quote with Ready2Change's quote, the idea without the gender stereotype? (:
When your quote is literally “When men become women by [doing these clearly negative things, and BTW I’m also telling you those negative things are inherently female traits and not male traits]” it’s easy to say WTF, are you telling me females are inherently inferior or what?
Ideally, both parties to a relationship should be confident, sure of themselves, and be willing to lead (and follow) at times. They should be in tune with and comfortable with their emotions, and be clear and expressive of how they feel and what they want. While compromise is necessary, if you just become a passive participant in the relationship and decline to make any decisions on the basis of just going with the flow or not wanting to appear needy, your needs are ultimately not going to be met and you are going to become resentful, which in turn will push your partner away.
So just by browsing the internet you can find all kinds of studies backing his claims. You do not have to agree with what he says but I typically find his advice to be dead on.
National polls conducted in America over the past three decades have consistently shown that both men and women endorse the concept that women are more emotional than men (Brescoll, 2016; Dolan, 2014).
The Confidence Gap Evidence shows that women are less self-assured than men—and that to succeed, confidence matters as much as competence.
n studies, men overestimate their abilities and performance, and women underestimate both. Their performances do not differ in quality.
Do men doubt themselves sometimes? Of course. But they don’t let their doubts stop them as often as women do.
Women applied for a promotion only when they met 100 percent of the qualifications. Men applied when they met 50 percent.
We found perhaps the most striking illustration of how the connection between action and confidence might play out to women’s benefit in Milan. There we tracked down Zachary Estes, a research psychologist who’s long been curious about the confidence disparity between men and women. A few years ago, he gave 500 students a series of tests that involved reorganizing 3‑D images on a computer screen. He was testing a couple of things—the idea that confidence can be manipulated and the idea that, in some areas, women have less of it than men.
When Estes had the students solve a series of these spatial puzzles, the women scored measurably worse than the men did. But when he looked at the results more closely, he found that the women had done poorly because they hadn’t even attempted to answer a lot of the questions. So he repeated the experiment, this time telling the students they had to at least try to solve all the puzzles. And guess what: the women’s scores increased sharply, matching the men’s. Maddening. Yet also hopeful.
Estes’s work illustrates a key point: the natural result of low confidence is inaction. When women don’t act, when we hesitate because we aren’t sure, we hold ourselves back. But when we do act, even if it’s because we’re forced to, we perform just as well as men do.
Using a different test, Estes asked everyone to answer every question. Both the men and the women got 80 percent right, suggesting identical ability levels. He then tested the students again and asked them, after each question, to report their confidence in their answer. Just having to think about whether they felt certain of their answer changed their ability to do well. The women’s scores dipped to 75 percent, while the men’s jumped to 93. One little nudge asking women how sure they are about something rattles their world, while the same gesture reminds men that they’re terrific.
Finally, Estes decided to attempt a direct confidence boost. He told some members of the group, completely at random, that they had done very well on the previous test. On the next test they took, those men and women improved their scores dramatically. It was a clear measure of how confidence can be self-perpetuating.
These results could not be more relevant to understanding the confidence gap, and figuring out how to close it. What doomed the women in Estes’s lab was not their actual ability to do well on the tests. They were as able as the men were. What held them back was the choice they made not to try.
The advice implicit in such findings is hardly unfamiliar: to become more confident, women need to stop thinking so much and just act. And yet, there is something very powerful about this prescription, aligning as it does with everything research tells us about the sources of female reticence.
Most men are driven by fear and scarcity when it comes to dating and romance. They have seen too many movies with the theme that men must lock their dream women down to a commitment as quickly as possible before other men do. The beta males who make these movies don’t understand women and wish they acted in ways that are simply unnatural to how women really are and what attracts them to men. Men who watch these movies but don’t know any better behave this way and chase women right out of their lives. The reality is that women will chase and pursue men more and more as their interest rises. This creates the conditions where women naturally are the drivers of commitments and relationships. Love is allowing. Love is freedom. By allowing women to come and go as they please, men simply just have to say yes when women open the door.” ~ Coach Corey Wayne
Here’s a suggestion. This is not the Coach Corey Wayne board. Can we stop quoting him? And people that want to hear his “insights” can go follow him on the internet and let this board be? It is very off-putting for some of us and those of you that like him can go bother his website.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Here’s a suggestion. This is not the Coach Corey Wayne board. Can we stop quoting him? And people that want to hear his “insights” can go follow him on the internet and let this board be? It is very off-putting for some of us and those of you that like him can go bother his website.
I agree with may22. MWD has lots of great resources, some at this very site! (See the TV & Media link above.) She also has pointed, gender-specific advice for husbands and wives, and general advice that pertains to all. No need to pull in other resources when MWD is such an expert at what she has dedicated her life too She is the reason I came to this site, and while I've also read other authors and marriage experts, she is the premier anti-divorce expert in my estimation. I think sometimes we forget what a treasure-trove of information her books, the resources at this site, and even MWD's videos, interviews and writings that you can find across the internet truly are!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Though I believe in freedom of speech and understand that people have the right to read or not read if they so choose, I will expect your wishes May as the newest board monitor lol.
My decision may change if Wayfarer starts man hating again lol.
Here’s a suggestion. This is not the Coach Corey Wayne board. Can we stop quoting him? And people that want to hear his “insights” can go follow him on the internet and let this board be? It is very off-putting for some of us and those of you that like him can go bother his website.
Yeah me having this crazy requirement that men don't talk about women like they're another species and that some how in no way are equal, as well as, refusing to live in a magical land where people some how lack entirely either traditional masculine or feminine traits definitely makes me a man hater. Oh, ok. I was willing to roll with the joke previously because it felt like a joke. It doesn't any more. Seriously, if I hated men that much I'd be single, stay single and use men. But I don't. I love and respect men, just as much as I love and respect women and non-binary people. Simply because I won't kowtow to many times over debunked gender pseudo-science does not mean I hate anyone. The fact is if what I'm saying is offensive when I stand up for how trite, belittling and reductionist those statements are about women or those with effeminate traits I think that says a lot more about the reader than the writer. I'm not asking that an entire sex be wiped out. I'm asking to not have an entire group of people be reduced to a monolith and forced into a box of archaic expectations. That's not hate. That's called self respect. This isn't a zero sum game. And the fact that that has to be said is sad.
Also to clarify and simply because I was asked by R2C, I don't like when my H acts like a child, not "feminine", like a child petulant or otherwise. I'm not his mother. Children have problems with emotional regulation, because they are children. Children have problem with boundaries because they are children. Children have problems anticipating or fully understanding the needs of others because their not yet fully formed brains make them self focused as their little bodies and minds are functioning on a much lower level of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. Children have difficulty putting the needs of other's first for the same reason. Adults who behave like children well into their 30s, 40s and 50s are a turn off for literally every one. Men and women alike, and I've met both. H and I, like every other human person on the planet, brings both masculine and feminine energy and traits into our relationship. I however due to years and years of therapy and being forced, either by chance or circumstance, am more emotionally and intellectually mature. Our situation has forced him a long here, and hopefully in the years to come he can further address his arrested development in a professional setting so we can continue to grow together.
