Spiral - Nothing really new. My sitch has similarities to yours. I think you recently described yours as having occurred " suddenly and definitively". From my own experience events seemingly came at me from out of nowhere turning my life inside out in a heartbeat leaving me with an initial feeling of confusion and desperation. I think you've done much better than I have in processing the reality of what has happened in such a short period of time. I think it's admirable how well you've comported yourself during this unexpected and difficult time.
There are things I know now that I wished I had known the beginning of April. On the top of that list is the fact that once a WAS decides it's time for BD, it's over, done, they're already emotionally divorced and much further from our reach than we realize at the time. They've already advanced into their next life, the one they think guarantees the happiness they feel they've been deprived of, and have no intentions of looking back and feeling any sense of sentimentality or nostalgia for the previous life and particularly for its central figure. During the five weeks I continued living under the same roof with her after BD I would have been better served if I had realized how true this is.
Oddly enough during those five weeks I also was on the receiving end of some ILYs, as well as occasional hugs, and kisses on the head. I wish I dealt with it as intelligently as you recently did. I simply don't get the psychology behind what's happening during those moments.
I'm doing my best to GAL. I'm putting into place both short term and long term goals. I know I need to detach and that it's probably more important than anything as the D is probably going to happen fast and knowing the two of them as I do they'll probably be engaged in no time. I understand what it is I need to do. It's going to be challenging, but all things worth while are.
Shane - I'm a newby, too. Over the last two and a half months I've experienced the kind of emotional pain I never thought I'd experience with the possible exception of a loved one's passing. I've definitely learned some tough lessons from which I intend to use to improve myself as a person and as a potential partner as I MO into my future life.
I realize even today, despite the bitterness I feel at the moment, that my STBXW is a fundamentally decent human being. I think that when WASs/WWs are in this current state of mind they can become extremely cold hearted toward the one they've left, thus revealing a side to themselves not like anything we've seen from them before.
I do wonder, however, if the experience of becoming unhappy within a marriage and with the S, becoming so full of anger and resentment while simultaneously bridging over to the next life and a OM with no time in between, crossing a line in the process that she herself could not have seen herself crossing in the past, violating her own principles and moral compass while doing so, may not result in at least some alteration to their character on a permanent basis. I don't know the answer. It probably varies from person to person.
Spiral - Nothing really new. My sitch has similarities to yours. I think you recently described yours as having occurred " suddenly and definitively". From my own experience events seemingly came at me from out of nowhere turning my life inside out in a heartbeat leaving me with an initial feeling of confusion and desperation. I think you've done much better than I have in processing the reality of what has happened in such a short period of time. I think it's admirable how well you've comported yourself during this unexpected and difficult time.
There are things I know now that I wished I had known the beginning of April. On the top of that list is the fact that once a WAS decides it's time for BD, it's over, done, they're already emotionally divorced and much further from our reach than we realize at the time. They've already advanced into their next life, the one they think guarantees the happiness they feel they've been deprived of, and have no intentions of looking back and feeling any sense of sentimentality or nostalgia for the previous life and particularly for its central figure. During the five weeks I continued living under the same roof with her after BD I would have been better served if I had realized how true this is.
Oddly enough during those five weeks I also was on the receiving end of some ILYs, as well as occasional hugs, and kisses on the head. I wish I dealt with it as intelligently as you recently did. I simply don't get the psychology behind what's happening during those moments.
I'm doing my best to GAL. I'm putting into place both short term and long term goals. I know I need to detach and that it's probably more important than anything as the D is probably going to happen fast and knowing the two of them as I do they'll probably be engaged in no time. I understand what it is I need to do. It's going to be challenging, but all things worth while are.
Shane - I'm a newby, too. Over the last two and a half months I've experienced the kind of emotional pain I never thought I'd experience with the possible exception of a loved one's passing. I've definitely learned some tough lessons from which I intend to use to improve myself as a person and as a potential partner as I MO into my future life.
I realize even today, despite the bitterness I feel at the moment, that my STBXW is a fundamentally decent human being. I think that when WASs/WWs are in this current state of mind they can become extremely cold hearted toward the one they've left, thus revealing a side to themselves not like anything we've seen from them before.
I do wonder, however, if the experience of becoming unhappy within a marriage and with the S, becoming so full of anger and resentment while simultaneously bridging over to the next life and a OM with no time in between, crossing a line in the process that she herself could not have seen herself crossing in the past, violating her own principles and moral compass while doing so, may not result in at least some alteration to their character on a permanent basis. I don't know the answer. It probably varies from person to person.
BobP, interesting thought. But be aware. Who she was in the past. Who she might be in the future, none of that matters. You have to deal with the person she is RIGHT NOW. sandi's rules say "She is not the girl you married." We as LBHs struggle with this. Who she was 2, 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago does not matter. Who she is today is a WAW, and a WW, and a lying cheater. Deal with that. When you get caught up in who she was, and who she may be down the line, it clouds your judgement. I know, I was there.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
"Not the girl I married" would seem an understatement. I think the dopamine high has staged a coup d'état on her brain.
I had been having a better last few days. Then she called this morning to discuss some details of the D. She mentioned also that she was going to start renting out her home and move in with the OM, and then the plan is to buy a home together along the Long Island Sound before the end of the year. When I moved out on Mother's Day it was to give the two of us space, and of course deep down I was still holding on to a feeling of hope. I wish in my mind it had been more along the lines of letting her go.
As recently as February we were in Florida on vacation seemingly enjoying a nice vacation together as husband and wife. I remember conversing with a friendly Uber driver and my W digging her nails into my arm because she thought I was flirting with her, which I was not. At the time I was put off by the jealousy, but now I look back at the moment almost with nostalgia as I would have to think there was at least some emotional investment on her part toward our marriage. February still seems recent to me.
Then in March she emotionally checks out, which I wasn't yet aware of. She gets real close to her band mate and then the EA turns into a PA pretty fast. The bomb drops on April 6th. I move out 5 weeks later on May 10th. And today she confirms that they're going to be buying a home together. This just seems all so fast. Is this typical of the MLC, or WAW, or WW mind set? I almost said why don't the two of you wait a year before making such a move so early on but that would have seemed self-serving and it's really not any of my business. She can do what she wants. The speed of all of this just seems crazy to me and it's hard for me to process everything that has happened over the last few months.
It's calm but certainly not easy. There really isn't much new to report. The fact is my marriage is going to end and for the most part I've come to accept that reality. What's more important is that I get myself to a place where I can live peacefully with this, forgive myself for not having been more aware of the severity of our problems back when there might have still been a chance to save the marriage, and to move forward and live a happy life. I think this is where DBing can help, and man I'm trying, but at about 3 months post BD it still isn't easy. I don't think I've had a night where I've been able to sleep more than five hours since the morning of BD day.
I'm still hear everyday, following with interest anywhere from fifteen to twenty threads each with their own unique sitch. These aren't people I know but in a way I feel I know them as I root for them with compassion as they try to contend with some extraordinary challenges. I learn from their cases, and especially from the advice offered them from a few of the vets like LH19, Sandi2 & Steve85, who graciously share their time and wisdom with others in an effort to help folks they don't know personally regain their lives in the face of some extraordinary, and often times traumatic, circumstances.
I wish I was as natural at this as you are, Spiral. A week ago my W sent me a text that I almost saw as patronizing and infantilizing, though maybe that's on me and reflective of my own current state of mind.
"Bob, it may be too soon to write this, I am sorry things got so screwed up!!! I should have caught what was happening between you and I a long time ago!! You are smart, kind, empathetic and I only want the best for you. You will always have a special place in my heart. I want you to be happy!! You deserve it!!!! I got complacent in our relationship and just took things for granted the way they were. At the end I started hating myself for I knew I shouldn't have felt frustrated because I was part of the problem! I miss your family!! I just wanted to take a moment and tell you how I felt and I know it wasn't all your fault, I was probably more to blame. You will always be very special to me!"
Yeah it's over. Sometimes I think I'd feel better if I were hated by her but still respected. At this time she's questioning why we had even been together in the first place. Well it had been fourteen years so I would think at least at some point something was working right. Later that same day we had to meet to exchange some things and she volunteered to me that she had just returned from her first therapy session. She stated that our marriage was a main topic of discussion. Like with any relationship we had our issues, but my own memory tells me that throughout most of it there existed a mutually supportive element to it from which we both benefitted. Perhaps she remembers it differently. One thing is for certain, we sure as heck weren't communicating effectively over the last year or two. She was frustrated and rather than express it in a constructive way it usually came in the form of snide remarks and dramatic flair ups. When she was like that I typically stonewalled and tried to weather the storm hoping to maintain harmony, figuring we'd get to it when she could be more civil. Big Mistake! So, same old story, conflict avoidance, mostly on my end, killed us. I think I need to have NMMNG shot straight into my veins.
I'm glad you're doing as well as can be expected during this challenging time, Spiral. Like yours, my own sitch has seemingly happened with breathtaking speed. For me it just makes it a bit tougher to process all of this. Entering into 2020 I could have never expected this is what was going to happen to us, and yet, that's probably a pretty good indication for why it did. So I move forward, GAL, 180s and work on detachment. I'll get there.
Sorry it was so soon over. Your wife did not give you the gift of time.
As for sleeping 5hrs per night, most people need 6-7 hours. What have you tried? When I was struggling, I shifted to being a consistent early morning (dawn) riser. I find daylight hours when you can be out and about easier to fill productively than late night hours. I also use asleep app called Pzizz when I expect sleep trouble. I’ll admit to alcohol (wine) some nights to sleep, but moderate exercise like a jog a few hours earlier worked much better and costs less. Audiobooks and textbooks help me, too.
Well, she sent the text because she wanted to send it and it is about making herself feel better. So, don't take it personally. That's the point of DBing. Don't read into any of what she does. You might be right. You might be wrong. But you never know and it doesn't matter.
As for forgiving yourself for not being more aware of the severity of your marriage's problem, there's no sense in looking back on things. It doesn't help and we all make mistakes. And I'm not sure that the problems were unresolvable before OM came onto the scene. In my sitch, we were doing fine a year before BD. Things started to go downhill toward the end of the year and I think that OM coming onto the scene was a big part of that. I bet it is also true in your sitch. Of course, none of that matters either. Just now and tomorrow.
As for conflict avoidance, I made that mistake too and it isn't always NMMMNG. In a marriage with love, folks don't want to fight and they put conflicts aside in order to keep the peace. But I haven't read NMMMNG.
Well it's been 288 days since last posting here, last Independence Day to be exact. My time here had been brief and was in the immediate wake of Bomb Drop, a difficult time in which I was trying to cope with the shock and betrayal, hoping to better understand just what the heck had happened over the previous year or two while trying to see if there was even the slightest chance, or hope, of reconnecting with my W. After having been here for a few months, tracking other people's sitches, some consultation with a DB coach and reading with interest what the vets had to say, it quickly became clear there wasn't going to be any getting back together with the W anytime soon or probably ever. Man was I naive.
If there was one thing I wish I had realized to be as axiomatic as the sun rising in the East and setting in the West prior to BD day is that when a WAS informs an unsuspecting spouse of their intent to file for divorce and, "oh by the way there's someone else and I wasn't really out running errands today like I told you I was going to do but I was actually at OM's place", they are SO FAR GONE already, SO Emotionally Checked Out and divorced from that spouse and probably have been for quite a while, that the only logical response for the poor LBS at that precise moment is to probably say "well, sorry it's come to this, I wish you every happiness, it's been a great so many number of years, give my best to OM, but I'm outta here, like NOW!" Then disappear, make yourself conspicuously scarce and visit your lawyer. Well, it's fun to fantasize about another course of action I could have taken at that moment, and of course I write this in jest as I'm pretty certain it rarely ever goes down like this. The other thing is we didn't have children together and I can't imagine being so cavalier when that's the case as their well-being would have been foremost in my mind. But I sometimes wonder what might have been different if I had been expecting it and better prepared rather than making many of the typical mistakes made by unsuspecting LBSs, in house, for five miserable destructive weeks. We live and learn I suppose.
The 2nd half of 2020 was better. I began to sleep more than four or five hours a night and my appetite slowly came back. GAL is tougher during the era of social distancing but I reached out to many of my friends from the past who I had neglected for far too long during the marriage. It was good for the soul to reconnect with them, talk about old times and to make plans to do things later on once it's more safe for everyone to do so. The 2nd half of the year was political season so I was involved with that. I started to read more. I was anxious to start to experiencing a life that was outside the context of the one I had known for the previous 14 years where everything seemed to revolve around the relationship with W. I was anxious to see and feel that there is another life out there waiting and it can be good, maybe even less stressful and quite fulfilling and enjoyable. I started to get involved with some of the activities of my past, a few that W had either been hostile to or simply didn't relate to. I made up my mind that I was going to get back in touch with CORE Bob. Maybe I'll get back out on a golf course this summer and see how many sand bunkers I can find after not having had the sticks out for almost ten years. I still have a ways to go, especially in terms of detachment. I've read up on it. I think I have a better understanding now than I did before about what it actually is. I'm often reminded of Steve talking about self-differentiation in relationships. But I'll admit it, lovingly detaching from this person has been one of the most challenging things I've attempted. I'll always love the woman I once knew and married. I still miss her but I try not to think about it. Strangely enough I just don't think she exists anymore.
And speaking of her she and the paramour have sold their respective properties and have purchased waterfront property on Long Island Sound along the CT coast. When she and her lawyer brought this up I almost asked her when exactly in 2018 or 2019 did the two of them start planning on this course of action. I know when Waywards and their special friends hop on the Dopamine Express to Fantasy Land they can act like they've known each other all their lives and make rash life decisions, and why not seeing that they finally found their "soulmates who get them like no other ever has"?, but the speed in which she's zoomed off is stunning, so it makes me, and others, wonder. We don't communicate much except for when we have no choice like to discuss taxes, some other items of business, and brief pleasant exchanges during the transfers of our Golden Retriever. Brief, pleasant in a borderline coolish & indifferent way, and I'm always the first to say "take it easy" and go. One of the friends I've been back in touch with told me he and his wife know of at least 10 other couples over the last two years that are splitting, all blindsided, and all involving a spouse that flipped. As an old-fashioned kind of guy who believes in the institution of marriage I find it kind of depressing. Divorce seems all the rage I guess. Fewer and fewer want to make the commitment and put in the work. Marriage almost seems like a crapshoot these days. And we think we know someone, but do we really know them? I don't know, all I know is I'm committed to living a happy life and I'm going to keep working on it. Maybe some day I'll even be glad this all happened and think it was for the best.
I'm not here often, at least not here writing, so I want to thank those who reached out to me last year to offer a perfect stranger help during a truly awful, confusing and challenging time. I could list quite a few but I may forget some, and I want to particularly thank SteveLH aka Steve85, whose advice and words helped me see the only course I had available to me at the time. It took a while for it all to sink in but I think it finally did.
I can totally relate to what you are saying Bob. My XH was engaged and a new home owner within seven months of BD...and we do have kids... kids that he introduced OW to three months before BD. So to answer your question... no, I don’t think we ever really truly know someone. Like your XW, the person my XH was when I married him, no longer exists. You are lucky, in some ways, that you didn’t have kids as you are able to move forward and have very little, if any contact with your X. I think that helps with the healing process. Having said that, time is a great healer regardless. In my sitch, XH has been super reasonable with the business end of our split so we have been able to establish a pretty positive co-parenting situation. And OW is very good to my kids so I think we are doing as well as we possibly can given the circumstances. XH was over at my house yesterday dropping some planters off (he and OW have bought me out of my share of the home I co-own with his mom so are moving in once they sell their home and pay me) and we had a funny, lighthearted conversation about our kids and the logistics of the move(s). It was nice and bodes well for our kids that we are in that place. Three years ago, I would have never predicted that and yet here we are. Life is good. And in a weird way, I AM glad that it happened because the life I lead now would have never happened if it hadn’t. It’s not the life I planned but it may turn out to be an even better one. I hope yours does too. (((HUGS)))
