That's your opinion that you are entitled to have.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
Displaying emotion has no gender.
I agree. They key is to control your emotions.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
Over emotional is a way patriarchal men like to keep people who identify as women in a little box.
I have no idea what you mean in this statement
Originally Posted by wayfarer
No, no silly little girl that baby box of yours tells you how to think not your teeny tiny little girl brain. It's disgusting way to characterize women and an even worse way to mansplain what "feminine" behavior is to "men."
What?
Originally Posted by wayfarer
People who can articulate how they feel and don't just swallow emotions are typically known as healthy individuals, not effeminate losers.
I agree
Originally Posted by wayfarer
Along with that, I know a h3ll of a lot more men who are unsure of themselves than women, but pretend they're not, and tell themselves they're not and it almost always comes out as hypermasculinity or aggression whether that be passive or active.
Right! So the goal is for the man to become sure of themselves which will in turn make their woman feel safe.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
Insecurity is an interesting animal when swayed with testosterone. It has very little to do with women "taking on the masculine" and far more to do with an individual's self worth, and emotional maturity.
Most women don't want to make all the decisions and take the family lead.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
DBX needing to go further down the path of detachment and doing a little more self work to focus less on the emotions of the MR falling apart has nothing to do with some caveman like display of "leadership."
I just randomly chose his thread to post the quote.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
The only valid point that entire paragraph has is NO ONE should change into something they are not in order to please ANYONE.
Incels is a label (involuntary celibate) given to a group of folks which other folks use to push back against their (incel's) own labels for groups of people. It really is as gross of a term as any other term used to describe a "group" of people.
Last edited by SteveLW; 05/06/2102:50 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
NO ONE should change into something they are not in order to please ANYONE.
If someone is a "nice guy" with NGS should they not change and stay that way as long as they feel it makes them happy? If someone has anti-social tendencies should they not change? If your partner is distressed by certain behaviors of yours, should you just ignore that as long as you are happy?
NO ONE should change into something they are not in order to please ANYONE.
If someone is a "nice guy" with NGS should they not change and stay that way as long as they feel it makes them happy? If someone has anti-social tendencies should they not change? If your partner is distressed by certain behaviors of yours, should you just ignore that as long as you are happy?
Well the problem is that most people with NGS are not really all that happy if they honestly get down to it. The same is probably true for those with anti-social behavior disorders. But if you really are, and a partner has problems with the things that you do yet you are truly happy the way you are, then you have to choose how much your partner matters compared to that thing, and a lot of time it depends on how big that thing is.
People always say, if you change for someone else it's not really going to stick. If you're going to change you have to change because YOU want to. But a big thing is that it also depends on how important the thing you're changing is to you. If I give up drinking or eating meat or change my religion for my partner, and I didn't really want to, maybe I'm just going to end up resenting them. If I change my brand of socks because they hate how they look then it's probably going to be no big deal. That's a wide spectrum, and some things are big core changes that can only be changed for yourself and not for anyone else, and some things are minor. There are two parts of the quote from wayfarer: Changing "(1) into something they are not (2) in order to please ANYONE" else. (1) seems more like it's addressing the big stuff, and I agree no one should change the big stuff for someone else, because it just doesn't work out if you aren't on board with it yourself. And if you're on board, you may be changing into someone you are not, but then (2) it WON'T be in order to please someone else. So basically, don't make huge changes for someone else that you aren't on board with. I agree.
Last edited by mako; 05/06/2103:45 PM.
Me: 43 W: 41 Together 2009, Married 2011 Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5 Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
I can definitely see wayfarer’s point about the quote. The problem with the quote is that it equates “unsure of themselves”, “overly emotional” and lacking “leadership” with “women” and “feminine.”
Ideally, both parties to a relationship should be confident, sure of themselves, and be willing to lead (and follow) at times. They should be in tune with and comfortable with their emotions, and be clear and expressive of how they feel and what they want. While compromise is necessary, if you just become a passive participant in the relationship and decline to make any decisions on the basis of just going with the flow or not wanting to appear needy, your needs are ultimately not going to be met and you are going to become resentful, which in turn will push your partner away.
That is what I take from the quote, but you have to sort through a bit to get there and the audience is really men only I guess so that’s his focus. It’s kind of like the NMMNG book, which has tons of useful stuff in it, but when he started going on about Vietnam and women teachers and women’s lib I kind of just had to gloss over all that. When your quote is literally “When men become women by [doing these clearly negative things, and BTW I’m also telling you those negative things are inherently female traits and not male traits]” it’s easy to say WTF, are you telling me females are inherently inferior or what?
Me: 43 W: 41 Together 2009, Married 2011 Sons 10 and 6, Daughter 5 Bomb 2/21/21. W moved out 10/2021
Changing certain behaviors is different then pretzeling yourself into someone you are not.
Stating that 'no one should change into anything they are not for someone else' is different from what you state above. Sometimes we need to have faith that trusting someone else and attempting to change is the right thing. For example, an addict may not always want to go into rehab. They sometimes do it for their loved ones such as during an intervention and then eventually embrace the change when they see the positive changes. Also, sometimes pretzeling yourself into someone you are not is the only available option.
Yes, everyone has their list of non negotiable things that they won't compromise and that is completely fine. However, as mako mentioned it is a spectrum and there are things we compromise on a daily basis for others whether we like it or not.
'Who you are' is also influenced by circumstances and external factors. You could be a different person at 5pm on a Monday than at 5pm on the Friday of the same week You are changing constantly and so if the definition of 'who you are as a person'. The difference is often in your attitude towards the required change not the decision to change itself.
So after emailing her back that I won't be funding the divorce petition, she of course did not respond.
And now this past weekend, she sent me two emails with pictures of the dogs, with one email containing a picture of myself with one of the dogs, and saying that she thought I would like to know that it's been six years since we adopted the first dog.
I'm was just baffled. Literally a week after filing for divorce, she's sending me pictures via email to reminisce? I obviously did not respond. It's just so strange...
Just to bring this thread back to helping DBX80:
Good job on standing up to her demand on the divorce petition. The emails are probably trying to soften you up to get what she wants. WASs are notorious for mind games.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You are changing constantly and so if the definition of 'who you are as a person'. The difference is often in your attitude towards the required change not the decision to change itself.