Still putting one foot in front of the other...

[Elbereth]

Hello all!

Thank you all for your opinions on contacting H's childhood friend. I can totally see where this could be problematic, but in my situation I felt it would work out ok. And it seems to have. H knows I have made effort to maintain all of our mutual relationships. And he has encouraged that I do. He is the one who has told his friend about the affair and all, and they are supporting both of us. In fact, he is very open with everyone that is more than an acquaintance about his affair. His friend asked for status of where things were because he wanted to know where his head was at. I told him without drama, anger or feelings, but stressing that I wanted H to have support if he was on the verge of a breakdown. I didn't ask for anything more. He did reach out my H (I only know they spoke because H mentioned speaking to him) but the friend didn't 'follow up' with me nor did I ask him too. The friend supports marriage and would love to see us reconcile, and he is also confused at H's behavior. Even though he doesn't agree with my H's behavior and thinks he's making a mistake, they are such close and old friends that he is going to support him regardless. And he (and his wife) are loving and supportive of me as well. H is still stressed but I think it helped as his mood has been lighter.

Thanks CWarrior for checking in on me...yes, I've been offline lately. There has been a lot going on and some of it is that I've just been thinking a lot. I've been served the D papers by H, and things have been friendly enough between us. He's still living in the home. He is applying for jobs elsewhere and he may be moving away soon. So he's pretty much changing everything in his life all at once. I've started to pack boxes and doing those sort of things to prepare for the move, but the lack of clarity on H's plans is making things complicated as he wants to stay in the house longer, but I want to take all the furniture he doesn't want but would need in the short term (but I don't want to hire movers twice). We are going to talk to some real estate agents and I'm hoping we can move out and they stage the house, so I can just do one move. I think this issue will work out, so I'm just packing the stuff that will be stored first...and will work my way to the critical stuff last. It's not like I have to leave by the end of the month, it's that I am ready to...but if it shifts a week or two, I do have the flexibility in my situation to do that. If I want too of course.

As for thinking a lot...well, it's interesting. I know everyone keeps telling me to not rewrite my history with my marriage but when I think about our lives together, I am starting to realize that our relationship was not what it should have been for what I feel marriage and partnership should be. I was listening to a few podcasts lately (one being Oprah's) and the idea of "the universe/God sends you whispers of things to pay attention too. If you ignore the whispers, you get a smack in the face, and if you ignore the smack in the face, you get the brick wall falling on top of you" or something along those lines. When I look at my marriage and our relationship, I do see whispers that I should have paid more attention too, I see that the whispers happened several times and many times I made other excuses for them. The universe even smacked me the face and I still pushed forward and made excuses. I'm loyal and committed and don't give up easily. Now, I see his affair as the brick wall falling on my head. It's as if the universe knew that I loved my H so much, and I would do so much based on my principles and personality, that it would take this 'brick wall falling on my head' to wake me up to the what the universe has been trying to tell me.

So I guess where my head is at the moment is that I realize that a part of me does deeply love my husband...but I honestly am not even sure that the man I am so in love with IS EVEN REAL or if he is the person I tried to believe he was. I think I saw him for someone better than he really is or just put too much focus on the good things about him and ignored the not so good behaviors. I settled for things I should not have settled for. I was a much better partner to him than he was to me. I've been told this even before the BD. He was more important to me than I was to him. Many of his actions provided these whispers. Over and over. And I made excuses for them. I'm seeing that now.

So, I've come to this place where I feel settled with what has happened and I am just wanting to put my energy into what it takes for me to be happy again. I've been doing a lot of that already, yes, but what I think has shifted is that emotionally, I feel like I've accepted it. Call it forgiveness if you want...but to me, it's I've accepted this is what has happened and I am better off moving on from it and putting all energy into my own happiness. Like the final thread tying me to him is broken. I'm not sure if that makes sense...as I do feel like I've already been at this point but it feels different to me now for some reason.

Anyway, I'm exhausted and need to get to sleep...but that's the scoop friends. I will catch up on all of your sitch's soon, as I also want to know where everyone is at and how everyone else is doing. Tonight, I'm just tired out. And I hope all the mothers out there had a lovely Mother's Day. I had a special one...thanks for the wishes! And thanks for all of your guidance and support too!

El

[Traveler]

When I look at my marriage and our relationship, I do see whispers that I should have paid more attention too, I see that the whispers happened several times and many times I made other excuses for them.

I'm curious. What did those whispers look like?

I'm loyal and committed and don't give up easily.

I've realized I'm not as loyal as I once believed. I left my ex-wife, no effort on her part for 1.5yrs. I was close to leaving my ex-GF. I won't stick by someone 'til death do us part, only as long as they make an effort. I think that's a respectable level of loyalty that should make anyone who wants a life partner happy. "I do" to joining our lives thru good and bad, not being a doormat. (:

I realize that a part of me does deeply love my husband

I did some reflection along this path, too. Which ex's did I know well enough, and which ex's knew me well enough, for the love to be real? My conclusion, with help from a wise forum member, is that while we can never know another human completely, my feelings of love for each one was valid and real. My feelings even for dates I know only for a few hours are valid and real. It's okay to love someone and realize they aren't a good fit for our lives.

I am just wanting to put my energy into what it takes for me to be happy again. I've been doing a lot of that already, yes, but what I think has shifted is that emotionally, I feel like I've accepted it. Call it forgiveness if you want...but to me, it's I've accepted this is what has happened and I am better off moving on from it and putting all energy into my own happiness.

That's fantastic!

. I will catch up on all of your sitch's soon, Tonight, I'm just tired out.

Listen to your body! Sending friendly love your way.

[OnlyBent]

As for thinking a lot...well, it's interesting. I know everyone keeps telling me to not rewrite my history with my marriage but when I think about our lives together, I am starting to realize that our relationship was not what it should have been for what I feel marriage and partnership should be. I was listening to a few podcasts lately (one being Oprah's) and the idea of "the universe/God sends you whispers of things to pay attention too. If you ignore the whispers, you get a smack in the face, and if you ignore the smack in the face, you get the brick wall falling on top of you" or something along those lines. When I look at my marriage and our relationship, I do see whispers that I should have paid more attention too, I see that the whispers happened several times and many times I made other excuses for them. The universe even smacked me the face and I still pushed forward and made excuses. I'm loyal and committed and don't give up easily. Now, I see his affair as the brick wall falling on my head. It's as if the universe knew that I loved my H so much, and I would do so much based on my principles and personality, that it would take this 'brick wall falling on my head' to wake me up to the what the universe has been trying to tell me.

Thanks for writing this El, it has made me think a lot too. I can recognise now that since BD I had been guilty of rewriting history with a rose coloured tint, just as STBXW was doing the opposite...the truth is somewhere in the middle. Like you, I am realising that my M wasn't where it should have been and I was sent whispers, which I ignored. I also ignored the smacks in the face until the brick wall fell on top of me.

I guess the positive for all of us (hopefully) is that we learn to never ignore the whispers, because at this stage its not too late to fix things. Thanks for helping me see this. I hope you're still dealing with things ok, you're doing pretty well El.

[Elbereth]

Originally Posted by Elbereth
When I look at my marriage and our relationship, I do see whispers that I should have paid more attention too, I see that the whispers happened several times and many times I made other excuses for them.

I'm curious. What did those whispers look like?

It's hard to express this without specific details being up here for all to see...but let's just say that there were times that he definitely showed me little or no respect, forgetting important details or dates he should know, not noticing things that he should, taking more than giving, putting me last, gaslighting, gifts that were way off, etc. Or even behaviors he did to other people around me...that I thought, that isn't so good. Things that hurt my feelings and didn't change even when I brought them to his attention.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
I'm loyal and committed and don't give up easily.

I've realized I'm not as loyal as I once believed. I left my ex-wife, no effort on her part for 1.5yrs. I was close to leaving my ex-GF. I won't stick by someone 'til death do us part, only as long as they make an effort. I think that's a respectable level of loyalty that should make anyone who wants a life partner happy. "I do" to joining our lives thru good and bad, not being a doormat. (:

Originally Posted by Elbereth
I realize that a part of me does deeply love my husband

I did some reflection along this path, too. Which ex's did I know well enough, and which ex's knew me well enough, for the love to be real? My conclusion, with help from a wise forum member, is that while we can never know another human completely, my feelings of love for each one was valid and real. My feelings even for dates I know only for a few hours are valid and real. It's okay to love someone and realize they aren't a good fit for our lives.

I think I have put too much effort into relationships because of the principles I have, but I am beginning to think that I take it too far...and keep doing it when my partners are not making the effort. Something I need to work on... And, when it comes to love, my feelings for him were/are real. I am realizing that I can love him and know that he's either changed, was never the person I thought he was, or just isn't a good fit for me anymore.

I agree with you OnlyBent...our relationships are not all they appear to be if we only focus on the good things. Paying attention to the bad things, the red flags, the whispers are important too...even if we figure it out too late. I say that because the knowledge we've gained will hopefully help us to be better and find better in our futures. And to listen to our gut instincts more!

I'm doing okay... My financial course has ended and this month will be a lot of transition. But I am motivated to see what is next for me and trying to not focus on what I am losing. I'm hoping there is more to be gained in the future and I know I can only control my way of moving towards that.

El

[DnJ]

Good Morning El

I think I have put too much effort into relationships because of the principles I have, but I am beginning to think that I take it too far...and keep doing it when my partners are not making the effort. Something I need to work on...

We hold to our principles because of who we are. Hold to those values and convictions for you. Or alter them, for you. Not because your partner wasn’t making the effort.

Its part of strengthening our beliefs that serve us, altering/creating those that we aspire to, and discarding those that do not serve us.

I know everyone keeps telling me to not rewrite my history with my marriage but when I think about our lives together, I am starting to realize that our relationship was not what it should have been for what I feel marriage and partnership should be.

Please be careful, that ^^^ is how one rewrites their history. We all, at first, are looking through rose coloured glasses; amplifying the positive events and traits. As we remove those glasses we similarly amplify the negative. Both situations are us justifying our feelings and thoughts, which unrecognized can lead to you unwittingly altering your values.

Feelings are fleeting. Do not make life decisions or changes in who you are based upon them. Look to your principles and convictions.

It takes time to just see your history simply as it was. And an interesting observation: The rosy events and the less so rosy events, are real. Neither is incorrect. Both are part of your history. See it simply as it was. Accept it as it was.

It takes a bit of stretch to accept one’s history without rationalizing it along the way. Thing is, we need to gather both sides and the middle to be able to see, understand, and rationalize well. That, is the heart of the caution of not rewriting one’s history.

Also marriage is different than a relationship. A bit of an excerpt from a previous post of mine.

Marriage. That formal union of two people. The taking of a relationship to the next and highest level. Why get married?

Most people get married for love. They are in love and therefore get married. But why? You already have the love. What does marriage do? Why do you need to get married? You already have the love.

People marry for love. They should and need to marry the person, not the love. Love is the icing on the cake; it is not the cake.

A marriage should be based upon a solid respectful relationship, which both parties want to, and vow to, upon hold and strengthen.

Love is a thing. Marrying for love is no better than marrying for money. Marry the person not the thing. Vow to the person not the feelings you have.

That distinction, I believe, allows people to weather the storms of life. Love ebbs and flow, has its up and down, yet the person remains. Marry the person. (This is some of the reason I am where I am. Have the beliefs I do. Make the choices I do.)

I'm doing okay... My financial course has ended and this month will be a lot of transition. But I am motivated to see what is next for me and trying to not focus on what I am losing. I'm hoping there is more to be gained in the future and I know I can only control my way of moving towards that.

The next month or two will be busy and full of change. It is hard not to reflect on what we lose. Yet, you wisely see your hopeful future and your control thereof. Yes, there are much positive gains ahead for you my friend.

D

[Elbereth]

Please be careful, that ^^^ is how one rewrites their history. We all, at first, are looking through rose coloured glasses; amplifying the positive events and traits. As we remove those glasses we similarly amplify the negative. Both situations are us justifying our feelings and thoughts, which unrecognized can lead to you unwittingly altering your values.

Feelings are fleeting. Do not make life decisions or changes in who you are based upon them. Look to your principles and convictions.

It takes time to just see your history simply as it was. And an interesting observation: The rosy events and the less so rosy events, are real. Neither is incorrect. Both are part of your history. See it simply as it was. Accept it as it was.

It takes a bit of stretch to accept one’s history without rationalizing it along the way. Thing is, we need to gather both sides and the middle to be able to see, understand, and rationalize well. That, is the heart of the caution of not rewriting one’s history.

I know, I know...but honestly, I am a very logical and rational person. I know I am not just rewriting my history because I was hurt. I have known for a while some of the flaws in character that my H has. I loved him regardless. But in this time of stepping back emotionally from him and really growing and learning and exploring, I am looking back and realizing that there really was more bad than good in my relationship, at least for the last few years... Yes, I loved him and I wanted it to work, and I did a lot of trying. It's hard to deny that I was not a priority when I have done as much as I have done for my H with his baggage, his depression, his personality, etc. and as soon as I become ill and need support and ask for help, he gets angry and ditches me for another woman. Yes, I do feel that he is in MLC. But I do also realize he's a very selfish and weak person, who takes more than he gives, and cannot handle difficulties, etc. There are many examples of things that if I listed them all out here you would all say...oh, okay, I get it. He's a great guy but a not so great husband.

So, yes, I can go on and on and on about all the things about him that I loved and the parts of him that were amazing. Those were there too. But the truth is, the parts that were missing are important parts. Respect, selflessness, integrity, support and more. I mean, all the books and marriage programs I've been doing and reading discuss how to have a successful marriage, and with this new knowledge I have begun to see flaws more clearly. Sure, things could turn around. But I am not sure he wants to do the work. He's said so himself to me and to others that 'he just doesn't have it in him to work on our marriage'...so that alone says to me that he doesn't even share my principles about marriage and the commitment around it. But he didn't come across this way when we met or when we discussed marriage. He really was good at having me believe we were really aligned. But in hindsight, with the new knowledge I have gained over the last six months, I realize it wasn't as rosy as I thought it was. I was blinded by my love for him. So I really do not see it as emotionally rewriting my history. I really feel that it's a very rational woman learning and growing and connecting the dots of all that she has learned that has changed her opinion of her marriage. It's knowledge, not feelings that is driving these revelations.

Yes, it hurts. Deeply. I truly loved this man. I believed he was a different person than who he has shown himself to be in our marriage and with his affair. Maybe I was manipulated. Maybe I was blind. Maybe I just saw things through rose colored glasses. Honestly, in having no support (and even more pressure) when I felt my worst and needed him the most was a pretty big wakeup call to something being really wrong in the marriage. All the learning is validating and bringing to light more evidence of serious flaws that need to be acknowledged and not ignored.

I feel sad but empowered. Disappointed too. How could I not be? Honestly, facing these things has helped me to drop the emotional rope and detach, because I am doing it on logic and not feelings. I hope that makes sense?

Thank you so much for your perspective. It really does help me to dig deep and say "uh, yeah, I think I am not just rewriting my history on feelings". That is golden.

El

[Traveler]

Yes, it hurts. Deeply. I truly loved this man. I believed he was a different person than who he has shown himself to be in our marriage and with his affair. Maybe I was manipulated. Maybe I was blind. Maybe I just saw things through rose colored glasses. Honestly, in having no support (and even more pressure) when I felt my worst and needed him the most was a pretty big wakeup call to something being really wrong in the marriage. All the learning is validating and bringing to light more evidence of serious flaws that need to be acknowledged and not ignored.

I'm sorry you've had to go through this, Elbereth, I love how much thought you're putting into the distinction between re-writing history and seeing history more objectively.

[DnJ]

Good Morning El

I feel sad but empowered. Disappointed too. How could I not be? Honestly, facing these things has helped me to drop the emotional rope and detach, because I am doing it on logic and not feelings. I hope that makes sense?

Totally makes sense.

I do see you as a logical and rational person. Such traits help with detachment, letting go, and seeing clearly, and being accurate. You are doing excellent, IMO.

So, realizing the valid and temporary reality of feelings, and the logical rational view of intellect, what about your beliefs? Those principles and convictions one stands for. Are they seen clearly? Accurately? Do they align with your intellect? With your emotions? Or does your intellect and emotions need to alter a bit to align with your convictions? Maybe a bit of both?

Beliefs, those deep convictions and values, are somewhat akin to feelings. Beliefs, like emotions, exist outside of intellect; and are not directly controlled, again similar to a feeling. However, unlike feelings, beliefs are slow to change.

For a while we are attached and dragged around by our emotions. Then we follow logic and reason and detach, let go, and find indifference, as well as quite a bit of peace. Honestly, finding detachment is the single best item on a new LBS’s to do list.

It is perfectly normal and healthy to be focused intellectually for a while, even a good long while. After getting our logical views organized, one turns towards their beliefs. This will happen quite unintentionally if one is not aware. As one gain more and more acceptance, their indifference rolls back and one’s feelings and emotions return. As well as other “feelings”, which are actually one’s deeply held values.

Our peace from our intellect may be interrupted as contrary values and deeply held convictions slowly emerge. And other values will reinforce our peace and world view, being more aligned with our intellect and logic. It is pretty amazing what one holds dear and believes after a lifetime of experiences, bias, prejudices, and such. Letting go, fear, ego, and so on are some of the trials of this time.

Strengthen those beliefs that serve you. Alter those that need altering. Discard ones that do not serve you or are undesirable. Create new beliefs which you aspire to and want to achieve.

Peace and contentment comes from following our beliefs. Beliefs that we have intellectually strengthened and crafted. Morals, ethics, compassion, forgiveness, empathy, understanding, and such are reflections and expressions of your deep self. Alter that which you need, for that which you are not proud or happy about.

Our beliefs, our spiritual path, influences and reinforces our intellectual and emotions paths. And those influence and reinforce each other, as well as our beliefs. It is such an interesting web.

We only control our intellect. And life’s true contentment comes from following our beliefs, and having emotions that reinforce the same. Having that skein sorted with all paths aligned, is a pretty nice place to be.

Keep walking the path, you are doing great. From one very logical and rational person to another.

D

[Elbereth]

Hello DnJ,

By beliefs haven't changed. I still feel that M is a serious commitment and with my principles, I struggle with the D and leaving the MR without doing everything in my power to work through it. But it takes two to work through it. I tried to do what I could from my side, but I alone cannot save our MR. I put out there that I wanted to reconcile, etc. H refused. And I now require financial protection. So, I am getting the D. He may never come out of MLC. He may have always had these character flaws that I have come to recognize. I committed to a marriage, a partnership. He ended that partnership, not me. I am not required to stay even if I took the partnership seriously.

Yes, I married this man and I expected forever. But I can't make that happen, and being alone waiting for it to happen is also not going to help it happen. So I am going to move on, for me. I know that is different than what some people feel. My deep self tells me that I did more in this relationship than I should have. I sacrificed a lot. I put up a lot. I did a lot more of the heavy lifting. I was the partner that really put effort in. I wasn't perfect, but I sure tried to make the marriage a strong one. So for me, I am not sacrificing some side of myself with my decisions. I know how hard I tried. Staying in a relationship where I continue to be less important, respected, cared for, is not what I chose for myself. I feel I am too valuable of a person to do that.

Still have a lot of work to do, but I am feeling contentment with my choices. Even if they are hard and I am sad. I have hope for the future. My future.

El

[Elbereth]

General status update...

My H has accepted a new job and is moving to another state within a month. All while I am moving out and we are moving forward on the D process and selling our home. I'll be moving to my temporary home over the next couple of weeks. SS18 is planning to attend college in a town nearby, and I will have a place for him with me if he wants to be until the fall when he leaves. H has had very little time to S18. He's a sensitive boy and I know he is trying to be supportive of his dad, but I sense that he struggles with the situation. All while we just found out SS20 has Covid. He is sick but still in flu like level. So now I am worried about him, and H is consumed with his own life.

I have been served the D papers and H got a lawyer as well. I am being amicable but told H I will not help him with the process. My financial course ended and I am trying to find someone to help me with financial strategy for the the D who understands my states rules. I plan to ensure I get my max equitable split of the assets, while being as nice as I can be through the process. Fingers crossed it doesn't get ugly. I don't need the stress.

Job-wise, I am a freelancer but have been working with a company for years. This company was purchased by another and the parent company has expressed interest in hiring me full time. This would be great to provide me health coverage and more reliable income. Fingers crossed this happens. However, H said he will keep me on his health insurance as long as I need to be...but I don't want to trust anything he says. It could involve me also moving to another state...that part is unclear at the moment, but will consider it if it comes up.

Things have been light between us while we've still been under the same roof. I think this is good since the next month is going to be super busy with moving out, house upgrades, and putting it on the market, not to mention the D moving forward. So being light and happy is where I need to be emotionally. So I'm doing everything to keep it that way. I think H thinks this means we will be friends in the future, but when that time comes, I will just pull away as I see fit. I do want to remain as amicable as I can be with him for the kids sake, but I have no desire to be friends with this person after the D. This person he has become (or always was) is not someone I need as a friend in my life.

It's sad that our home, a fixer upper, will get some of the nice cosmetic things done that not getting done contributed to the demise of our relationship. H insisted on doing so much ourselves and hated it and now he is running from the projects. Now, for less $$ than he thought, all that work will be done, and done for the next family that lives here, by other people. Makes me sad and a bit angry, but maybe this is the way it is supposed to go. The market is hot and we hopefully will make a lot of money on the house.

Feeling very overwhelmed and struggling with balancing everything, but excited to get into my new place and get it over with at the same time. Then I feel I will have more time to really focus on me and my growing and healing.

Seeing Sunshine Again

Literally there was sun and warmth today
but figuratively I'm seeing the light.

It feels so good...
to know I don't have to put up with any of
his lies or mistreatment ever again.

I'm free to be me...
just me...
not some made up version I've twisted
myself into to make him happy.

[e-mail]

El