The rules of engagement with her at this point should be really simple: Do not initiate contact. If she does, then: If it is informational then you have no reason to respond. If it is a question, then answer it only after some time has passed (not right away) and in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
This is what it looks like:
Her: "I need to come by in the next couple of weeks to get my clothes."
INFORMATIONAL, no response necessary.
2 days later: HER: "Did you get the message about needing to come by and get my clothes?"
QUESTION. After 2 hours, YOU: "Yes."
2 days later HER: "You never told me when I can come to get my clothes, does 7/10 work?"
YOU, after an hour: "Yes."
HER: "Ok what time?"
After another hour YOU: "Anytime after 10am until 2pm. Then anytime after 5pm."
HER: Okay, I will be there at noon. Thank you."
No question from her, the exchange is over.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Oohhh boy this is my favorite newbie advice to give.
I'm a horrible sleeper in general even in times of calm. So when the EA started before H was willing to admit it I had already stopped sleeping. Once I kicked him out of the bed I was sleeping maybe 3 hours broken like you. So the meditation audio is great. But it's just one piece of a bunch.
One of the biggest things is our brains crave predictability. Even more so in times of stress so you need a bed time and a bed time routine. Let's say you pick a 10:30pm bed time you have to be in bed and done with your routine by that time every night. The routine I strongly recommend is a warm shower with a lavender soap about an hour before bed. There are lavender soaps out there that aren't so feminine. A good one is Dr. Bronner's. I don't know what the availability is for you where you are. But there are others. It may take some research.
After your shower no TV, phone, tablet, kindle what have you. Make a nice cup of tea. But not like a cuppa. A nice herbal tea no caffeine. Chamomile if you don't mind it. I strongly suggest ordering a weighted blanket if you don't have one. I also suggest a diffusor for essential oils. Put it in the bedroom. There are a million sleepy time blends. Just find one that you like. Start that when you make your tea so the room is already filled with the scent when you lay down.
You can add in or take out any steps as you like. It's your routine. But definitely stay away from screens at least 30 min before bed and do that routine consistently at the same time every day for a few weeks. I promise sleep with come easier. My last suggestion would be CBD oil in tincture form. High dose. Like 700mg or more. Take that about an hour before bed too.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
There seems to be some serious correlation to the left behind spouse not giving a rip anymore and moving on with their life and being super happy, focused and seriously living everyday to its fullest and the walk away spouse seeing this and wanting to come back. No promises or guarantees but it’s the best shot. And it can not be fake. They’ll see right through that.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
My H in the midst of his A told me: he never loved me, he only continued our relationship to the point of where we were because I forced him to, that our entire relationship was based on ultimatums from the get go, that was always his plan B, that I belittled him, that I went out of my way to make him feel stupid, that I was controlling, that I was insecure, that it was my fault he was driven to an A. He also said all kinds of things that would've opposed that also in the middle of the A. He has since officially recanted the things he said that he actually remembers, a huge chunk of the awful sh!t he said to me he doesn't even remember saying.
People in crisis whether is be a wayward spouse, MLC, milestone crisis, just done trying in the MR...whatever, are like caged animals. They will do anything, say anything, manipulate and behave in completely out of character ways to removed anything in the path between them and what they think will make them feel better. You are a person in that path. As personal as her behavior is to you, currently in this moment what she's doing isn't personal. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. Which is why every one keeps saying stop focusing on her focus on you. She isn't focused on you so why are you wasting all this time and emotional energy on focusing on her?
She loved you. Your love and the good times weren't a lie. She isn't the magic manipulator that you'd like her to be. Your whole life wasn't a lie even if it feels like it. And it does. It really, really does. It feels that way for all of us. And WS/WAS work really really hard at convincing the LBS, themselves and any one who would listen that the love wasn't real and/or the LBS was the problem. But that doesn't make it true. Right now it's really hard to extrapolate the objective truth of the nature of your relationship, and the reality is you may never find a place where you can see your relationship in an objective place so you just need to focus on what your truth was in the relationship. That you loved her and for a time she loved you. The rest is all confetti.
We all wish they would've said something instead of blowing up our MR and lives. But this is a wish in one hand sh!t in the other situation. Hindsight is always 20/20, but since it's not the hand any of us were dealt we can only control things we can control. Namely ourselves. Just focus on you, and know you're in good company feeling the way you do right now. If you can stop spinning, get some sleep, get something in your stomach, and breath you'll get through this.
We also all feel that loss. Even those of us who made it to recon. The man I'm married to now is not the man I married. He's not the man who had the A. He's not the man I recon-ed with. People change and grow all the time. Sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. Sometimes it's worse then better. Sometimes it's worse then worse. I had to grieve MR 1.0. I had to grieve losing the man I thought I married. I had to grieve the future I thought we were going to have. I had to grieve who I thought I was. You lose a lot when something like this happens. All of it needs to be grieved. But your truth is your truth. You're life wasn't a lie simply because you're on an unexpected detour. It's ok if you're not ready to accept what's happening right now. You'll get to that in time. But if nothing else use that anger that's flaring up to refuse to let WW take what you know to be true away from you. You know there were good times and good things. You know you were good. Just hold on to your truth and focus on you.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
As you know mate, all of us felt like this and no one ever expected to be in this position, I have really had trouble with this. What has helped me accept and process is to ask myself questions inspired by my reading of Stoicism.
- The divorce rate is circa 50%, so why shouldn't this happen to me? - If there are so many people affected in the same way, and they all say after a few years things get better, why wouldn't they get better for me? - If this person is actively choosing not to be with me, how can they be the right person for me? - If I had a great life before this person was a part of it, why can't it be just as great, if not better, after?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
When I feel strong emotions is often precisely when I bite my tongue. Must this be expressed now--or could it be expressed in an hour, in a day, when I've cooled down and organized my thoughts? It's not about being nice. It's about achieving your goals--a strong relationship with your kids and a working relationship with your XW.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Her stopping indicates your co-parenting relationship with her is deteriorating. Is there anything you can do to improve that? The more you can do to bump up your relationship and not bump down your relationship, the more you may get "perks" like the above.
"Dear XW, I get I have not always been the co-parent dreams are made of. This transition has been tough. I want to do better. I don't expect a response now, but expect me to be more receptive than defensive the next time you reach out about the kids (e.g., something you'd prefer to happen at both homes or that I could do to make their lives easier.) Thanks, Me"
Based on prior communications, you seem to be allowed to communicate with your XW. I would not admit any faults that could be used against you in a courtroom. You could consult your attorney if you're unsure about your wording.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
What a great weekend with some amazing friends! Over the weekend, I was thinking about many of you that are here, posting and working sooo hard to save your marriages. I applaud you.
I wanted to share with you some of my thoughts over the past few weeks. Some of this may be a bit of a ramble; however, I believe that some of you may find it useful.
I have entitled this post….. The star is inside of you.
There is no magic bullet, magic pill, set of actions, set of words or specific post that can ensure that your marriage will be saved. Not one. The advice that you receive here will vary. Some will be very related to your specific sitch – some will not. I see a lot of people still focused on your spouse. Still focused on what they do, do not do, say, do not say, act, their actions. I understand this, I was there at one point too. What I feel is missing is the “work” that is needed to FIX YOU. We say often around here…”we didn’t break ‘em so we can’t fix ‘em”. So ask yourself – do you still believe that? Do you? Are you still worrying about every word you say, every step you take, every action you do? Do you still live a life walking on eggshells? Do you live in FEAR? Do you worry if you should leave the bedroom, take off the wedding band, make dinner, do the laundry, go to work? Does you every decision get run through a process where you think…….”what is my spouse gonna think or say”? Do you try and overcompensate for your crazy spouse? Do you do everything for the kids…to protect them? Have you totally devalued yourself? Have you tossed aside your own needs and wants? Do you walk around in guilt? Do you really think that…..that time, 10 years ago that your forgot the cranberry sause on Turkey day that it cause your spouse to wig out? If so, why?
I can go on and on about the stuff people have written, the post I have responded to and have read. Heck I was there too. IMO, the root of all of this is one word.
FEAR
When you come here…you are afraid, afraid of everything your spouse does, is doing, saying, etc. The answer to the issue though is NOT YOUR spouse – it really is YOU!
Stop for a second and ask yourself…..
Why am I afraid my spouse may leave?
Why am I afraid my spouse may divorce me?
Why are you afraid? Can you answer it honestly? Do you understand and know the root of YOUR fear? Yeah..yeah..yeah…I get it…”the kids”, “our family”, “our friends”……”the house”….”the finances”… I get it.
These ^^^ though are SURFACE answers. They do not get at the ROOT of the issue. Why are you so worry about the house? Do you think you will not be able to afford it? Do you think that you will not be able to maintain it? Do you love your neighbors? Do you just love that “woofy” your dog can walk around and all of your neighbor adore him? Stop for one second and ask yourself…… “what do these FEARS say about ME”. Can you see how you are devaluing yourself? Can you see how you may be assuming a deafist attitude? Can you see that in reality…..YOU WANT to CONTROL EVERYTHING.
CONTROL….. we like it. It is safe. It allows us to put everything in a little box. IMO, some levels of control KEEP US STUCK. They keep us from LOOKING INSIDE and facing OUR FEARS. So we cling to them. We figure out nice ways to hide behind them. Do you really think you can control everything? Do you really think that what you do, do not do, say, do not say….will CONTROL how your spouse acts? Now, I am not saying that your actions may not impact someone else. I am not saying that a love and compassion do not help heal, promote happiness, etc. No. What I am saying is that STANDING for your marriage does not mean that YOU ACCEPT that you are treated like dog poop. What I am saying is that YOU cannot spend every waking moment in FEAR of EVERYTHING YOU DO. At the end of the day, you cannot control your spouse. At the end of the day….NONE OF YOU, NO ONE ON THESE BOARDS, NO ONE….can make your spouse wake up, come home, become a better person. Some of you may say I know this. My response to you is….so what are YOU really doing for YOU.
IMO, doing the “work” is about facing YOUR FEARS. It is about, letting go of the notion that YOU can control everything. Doing the work…mean that you look inside. I will use my life, my journey as an example……
Some of you have read my journey, at least what was posted. I was an abused child. My mother was…well not the greatest. I was pretty messed up. At one point I become a drug addict. I was put away as a kid. I was homeless for a short period of time. I was broken. So…what does one do, HE CONTROLS. He controls how close he allows people to get. He manipulates his relationships, he keeps everyone at a distance. He carries around a ton of guilt. He lives in TOTAL FEAR and he USES CONTROL to manage that fear. He thinks….well if I am good H, or a good worker..that I can control the outcome of my job, my marriage. Now, I am not saying one should not be a good H, or a good employee. Nope. I am using this as an example of how sometime we control things. The control….keeps us from looking inside. Lemme give a few specific examples:
Specific to me….I tried to control everything. I’ve listed a few examples as reference for some of you.
I became super DAD. I did everything for my kids. My ex would leave at 5am and come home at 11pm. I did the laundry, cooked, cleaned, house work, a full time job, pick up and drop off the kids – pretty much a full time single parent. Although I do not regret it….i could have done things differently. Allow me to explain….. being as busy as I was with the kids, was in a small way, helpful in keeping me from looking inside. You see, I felt that I needed to protect them, I felt that I needed to control what they saw, what they heard, I wanted them to NOT have any pain from the divorce. I tried to CONTROL IT. ALL OF IT. Yes, some of you may say…it was for a good reason. My response to that is…was it? YOU really cannot control everything. The kids, will at some point FEEL this. They will feel the issue that are going on in the household. They will feel the stress of your spouse actions. YOU really cannot CONTROL it. You may think you can but all you are really doing is postponing it. Needless to say, I kept controling the sitch…take the kids here…make sure they did not see mom monster on me. The control prevent me from FACING MY FEARS. FEAR of what you may ask….
FEAR of…. Could someone like me really be a good parent, would the kids no longer love me, would the kids grow up to be F’ed up, fear of FEELING like maybe I was really a crappy dad, fear of what they would think of me? FEAR….that DEEP DEEP DOWN INSIDE…..I DID NOT BELIEVE IN ME! Yep…the deep issue that really needed to be deal with was ME. I did not believe in ME. I used everything else, the kids, my sitch, everything to HIDE from facing and learning about ME.
FEAR of…. Facing my role in the demise of the M. What did I do wrong? Why was all of this my fault or was it? Was I done? Why wasn’t I done? Why did ex wife have an OM? Was that my fault? To deal with some of these fears I controlled. I controlled how I felt. I did things, said things, did not do things….all for the sole purpose of getting my ex back. The bigger question was WHY? What was I afraid of? When I really started digging I did not like some of the answers that I found. I was fearful of: losing my house, change, change in my lifestyle, change in my income. Would I find someone? Could I find someone? Did I really love my w? What did love mean to me? Hell could someone like me even really love?
Finding the answers to these questions was painful. It required me to face every single one of these fears. It is no easy, fellow posters. Not easy at all. IMO, though….if you do not do it YOU will never really find your true self, your true happiness. When I started to dig, I realized – yes I did love my ex. Yes, I was capable of love, I also realized…..that I did not really KNOW how to LOVE MYSELF. That I based my own sense of SELF on what other thought, said, felt. That I had hid for a long, long time behind a viel of FEAR. When I finally learned how to love myself, learned how to ACCEPT EVERYTHING about myself….well then I was FREE. Free to choose for ME.
I have a seen a lot of poster post very similar questions ….
1) Should I leave the house? Should I leave the master bed room? My answer to these is this….WHY do YOU want to leave or stay? Are you staying because you are afraid? Afraid that you are not strong enough? YOU can! You are strong enough! You will survive this! Only though if you really look inside and UNDERSTAND why you feel the way you DO. It is only then, can you make choices that are NOT based in FEAR. It is only then that you can determine if you are done or not done.
2) Am I am done? I think I am done? I want to be done? MY answer – Define done. What does it really mean? Why does it even need a definition? Why put yourself in a box? Personally, I think it is our way of controling everything and as I have said….IMO, CONTROL is just a way for US to NOT have to FACE our FEARS. IMO, you can be done. You can change mind later. You actually do not even have to decide today, tomorrow….YOU can JUST LIVE. Live a happy life. Make a promise to YOURSELF that I CHOOSE happiness. Let go of the darn need to control everything. YOU CAN’t. Can you really control what your ex does? If you end up getting divorced – can you control what the judge says, his/her attny says – NO. YOU CANNOT. ACCEPT THIS! Instead of using the energy trying to figure out if you are done..use it to figure YOU out. Use it to understand yourself and accept your own fears. Use the energy to sit down and really figure out what you want and WHY? The star that you look for….the answer to all of YOUR questions is really inside of YOU.
3) Do I confront H or W about OM/OW? What do YOU really want to do? Better yet – why? What are you afraid of? Are you afraid they may leave? Are you afraid you will piss them off? Are you afraid they may file? Do you really think you can control it? FACE your FEAR! Why are you afriad? What is the root of the fear? Is it that you never really valued yourself? Is it that you are afriad if they leave how you will put food on the table? If so, is that who YOU really want to be? Dbing DOES NOT say you should be treated like crap. It is about health boundaries. Are you afriad to tell your spouse to stop texing OM/OW in front of you? Why? YOU matter! You are worthy of LOVE and RESPECT too. YOUR feeling do matter. Now I am not saying that you should confront today, tomorrow…what I am saying is UNDERSTAND why you are making the choice you are making. Cause if it is the result of FEAR – you have not address the real issue. FACE your fears.
I can go on and one with all sort of examples: The key point that I want to make to many of you is…..
Inside of you is a star! That star is your guiding light. Not me, not another poster. YOU. YOU are your guiding light. Ya just have to get past the fear. You just have to ACCEPT YOU, learn to LOVE you, Choose happiness over everything else. Find the issues and fears that you have and then slay them – one at a time. They may not go away today…but just knowing what they are EMPOWERS you to make choices that are TRUE to YOU. You are star! Every single answer to your question is inside you.
If you work on you – fully – if you totally commit YOU to YOURSELF, to healing YOUR core. You will be happy. You will have an inner peace and joy.
Stop looking at your spouse – focus on you and face your fears!
Life is a river…..it flows…it changes….. YOU can’t control it.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Regarding my "begging" comment, ok maybe that was too strong of a word.
What you will notice if you comb through these threads (mine included), if the LBS has not made the WAS work (and by work, I mean over a sustained period of time) to prove their sincerity in the desire to reconcile, one of two things will happen.
1. You will reconcile and there will be another BD after the honeymoon phase. 2. The WAS will drag things out, be uncommitted (even though they say they are), and buy more time to continue their affair or their desire to explore other options.
Someone mentioned the book Love Must Be Tough by Dobson. I highly recommend that book in this situation.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
The one that most folks here recommend is cutting the WS loose as soon as possible after BD. They want a D? Great, go get it. They want to ride off in the sunset with AP? Have fun. You're a horrible shrew who ruined their lives and they never really loved you anyway? Thumbs up emoji while you're off building your life back up.
Then the WS rides off into the sunset and learns that wow, things didn't all magically get better when I cut my LBS loose. The R with the AP goes south because it was all built on fantasies and lies and now you have to deal with a real relationship with another human, usually someone who is an @sshole of a person because they thought it was OK to get involved with a married person (with kids being the extra kicker for those extra-special a-holes). Slowly, the WS starts to realize that the problem wasn't in their S-- it was inside them all along. Then at some point-- maybe they hit absolute rock bottom-- they realize what a dumb@ss they are being and go back to their LBS asking (begging? ) for another chance. Many times the LBS has moved on at this point and doesn't want anything to do with their former lying, cheating partner. Other times they're open to R. But that is the basic path that most here will advocate.
Some of us took a different path which is uber difficult (though in fact is probably closer to how MWD talks about DBing in the book) and requires you to watch that sloooooooow transformation and realization in real life. Over many months. With no guarantees anything is going to actually work. You have to do very much the same thing in terms of DBing, focusing on yourself and detaching from your @hole spouse, even though you're still sharing a house. Planning for that amazing future that doesn't include him. Taking a good hard look at the parts of you that you might have lost during the M or behaviors you've picked up that are toxic and doing the hard work internally to make those changes. Spending oodles of time working on understanding your boundaries and how to enforce them. The difference between a boundary and attempting to control his behavior. Refocusing all that energy you're wasting on wondering what he is up to on your kids and really enjoying them. Stopping caring about what your WS is up to and just focusing on yourself, what brings you joy, what you want for your future regardless of the state of your M. This can be a lot harder with him in the house than if you are living on your own because you have very little leeway. WSs will breadcrumb like crazy and try with all their might to hook you back in. The dance of distance and pursuit is real. You just have to keep your head down and DB.
Originally Posted by may22
I purposefully did not read any piecing threads for months. I just started a couple months ago when Steve posted some links on my thread. I would highly recommend staying away from that board because what you need to do in piecing is very different from what you need to do in the thick of your sitch and you, my dear, are still very much in the thick of it. Patience is going to be your best friend here.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
) for another chance. Many times the LBS has moved on at this point and doesn't want anything to do with their former lying, cheating partner. Other times they're open to R. But that is the basic path that most here will advocate.