5 years pieced & COVID SIP has silver linings

[may22]

Hi Blu,

So good to hear an update, as always. (((Blu)))

I'm so glad to hear things continue to go well, and you were able to have a conversation about the A without feeling triggered. That is wonderful progress. And even though I agree that there is little to be gained from the past, I do think it is also healthy to explore and be able to talk about the past together. The fact that it *was* triggering to you previously and was not this last time says to me that you are continuing to heal, and those feelings may be (or may have been) partially blocking your willingness to reengage in a deeper intimacy with your H.

I remember you saying that you were thinking about your view of his A, and his view of the A, and that maybe you'd thought of it in a certain way in order to help you make sense of it. I wonder if these conversations can help you guys to get on the same page and that might help you let go of some of that fear that you'd been somehow sugarcoating it to yourself? Maybe I'm totally offbase! Just a thought.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if future conversations may still trigger an emotional response, but I bet that dealing with those lingering feelings and letting them go will help both of you grow your emotional intimacy. That is really nice to see from where I sit, at the very very very beginning of this part of the journey. Thank you for sharing!!

Also, FWIW I am no paragon of patience and understanding! I believe myself to be a generally very empathetic and understanding person, but I am NOT PATIENT generally speaking. One of my biggest challenges. And I also completely agree that you and I are both justified in our anger. I guess I am also just not good at being angry generally. But it does make me happy to feel like my experiences and words have helped someone, especially someone who has helped me in such a profound way. I'm so glad to know you.

xx May

[BluWave]

Thank you, May.

I am not sure how to define "sugarcoat." My mindset 6-7 years ago was different. I think in order for me to take my H back, I had a narrative that I needed to believe in order to accept what he had done. The damage was too great. I needed to believe that it was a mistake and that he didn't love her. It felt too painful that he could just pick up and leave our family for this OW and was in love with her only to turn around a year later and change his mind again. I was so overwhelmed, heart broken and humiliated to even think about it logically. And, none of it was really logical. So whatever he told me that reinforced my narrative -- that it was all a big mistake that he regretted -- I clung to. I heard what I wanted to hear in order to feel safe. I also realize now that he was protecting me by not sharing details that would hurt me further. Our first couple years of reconciling were so rocky, emotional and confusing. It was hard to do the real work of piecing because I was so easily emotionally triggered. I remember driving down the street on a normal day and feeling a random onset of doom, sadness and confusion. Sometimes I felt like I couldn't breathe. I had to learn to talk myself out of this and remind myself that I was safe. The trauma was legit.

My H didn't have a couple flings, EAs or just tell me he wanted D. He had a full on relationship with someone else for a long time and left our marriage, home and family. I don't know how many sane people would take someone back after that. I think in some ways I became insane just trying to make sense of it and navigating the changes. I also was grieving the loss of a parent and child, so I was vulnerable. So after he came back and we had these discussions, I think he was walking on eggshells to protect me. At times I would lash out, completely withdraw or ask the same questions repeatedly. I just couldn't make sense of what had happened. I also developed some unhealthy coping mechanisms that I have had to work on. As I dealt with the trauma and as conversations got repeated over the years, I realized that his perspective shifted and further matched mine.

I don't know how much his perspective shifting is because I have convinced him and persuaded him. I also think that the longer times goes by and he is detached from what happened his own beliefs have shifted. And what I am wondering now is if that even matters? ... For instance, her name came up in reference to something a few weeks ago and I saw him roll his eyes, gasp and say under his breath "she's crazy." I don't think he said that to put on a front, as it appeared to be a natural reaction and I wasn't looking for one. What I do wonder, is if he has come to believe that about her because of our conversations over those years or because he has separated himself so much from what happened that he can see the past more clearly now. He has also said that he does not believe he was in love with her, that he doubted his decision to leave me for her the entire time and that it always felt wrong. He will also say that he thinks she lied to him all along and he didn't know what to believe.

This is the first time I have entertained the idea that his separateness from what happened could have been influenced by the last 6 years with me. It is also the first time that I am strong enough to accept that maybe I was wrong. Maybe he really did love her, want to be with her and maybe he came back to me because I made it so hard for him to stay away. He disagrees. And I don't know. I may never know. But I am finally okay thinking about it all without feeling sad or unsteady. So for me this is progress.

Blu

[KitCat]

Thank you, May.

This is the first time I have entertained the idea that his separateness from what happened could have been influenced by the last 6 years with me. It is also the first time that I am strong enough to accept that maybe I was wrong. Maybe he really did love her, want to be with her and maybe he came back to me because I made it so hard for him to stay away. He disagrees. And I don't know. I may never know. But I am finally okay thinking about it all without feeling sad or unsteady. So for me this is progress.

Blu

So in my readings - and I've done a lot!!! I'm also on another support board.

In regards to your H, he most likely did "love" her in a way at THAT time. I think the technical term is limerance. In his brokenness there was something missing in his relationship with you at the time that was filled temporarily by this other person. This person is only filling a specific need... not multiple ones that you had been doing as his spouse. It looks and feels like rainbows and unicorns because this one aspect which has been left unfulfilled is just amazing and they equate the amazing feeling to this person and all aspects (but that later proves fatal as they cannot maintain this state in real life). At some point the limerance wears out and then true guilt, anger and remorse set in. Often times the WS looks back in hindsight and truly questions their own decisions to be with that person at the time.

A book I read PRIOR to getting married was How to Affair Proof Your Marriage. Its definitely insightful as to how affairs begin and often why.

Also a book called Rebuilding is very helpful. It is geared to get someone who is divorced or on the path to D towards understanding and healing. But, what is in the book is very helpful. Many times these books are saying the same thing over and over again. However, it really delves into why relationships fail and the reasons we marry. The terms Over-responsible partner and Under-responsible partner really resonated deep with me. Now, I was already working on these aspects of myself prior to this book but it put it in more relatable terms for me that clicked. The book also goes over "rebellion" and how many relationships could survive if the other spouse new what was happening and had an understanding of the process while it was occurring. It helps you look at your prior M and the roles you each played and how they were influenced by your own parents M - once you recognize these things you can make changes into M2.0. I like the fact that this book unlike many out there had no religious component.

The book Love and Respect essentially says some very basic skills in what works in an M. It has a very strong religious component which was hard for me but the basic principles still stand. It is overly simplified but it can be a good starting place on where to improve how you relate to your spouse and in changing your ways of relating it has a magic effect of over time changing their ways of relating to you.

The bottom line is Blu AND May your H came out of the fog and chose you and the M. That was a terrible painful time in both of your lives and May even harder as your H had a lot of back and forth (which is normal from what I've read). May with more time your H will come to do an eye roll as well when this is brought up in a few years down the road. Neither of your H's will recognize who that person was back then - it will be like they were in a fog.

Nothing will ever erase what happened in your M. But, I'm a firm believer that with the right tools... time, space and true work on understanding of you and your partner that a better marriage can take place. That a deeper appreciation and deeper true unconditional love (a stage that many couples never reach) can happen. The Art of Love by Dr Beam is a great book that explains the love path.

It took you both a lot of courage to post your journey. The ups/downs. How you were feeling emotionally. The setbacks. The self care. Your own mood swings and desires in the M.

May you are on a strong path to a M where you can look back in 5yr and see how much you grew as a person, how much stronger you are, what your responsibilities to your M are and to yourself, and what an amazing role model you are for your daughters. It will never make the A go away but I think with more time and hindsight you can appreciate your journey much better and in 5yr your H will have so much more respect for you how you held it together during a time in his life where he didn't really recognize who he was.

Ugh... sorry for the verbal diarrhea... I think you both are strong women.

[Elbereth]

I agree with KitCat. You both are amazing strong women. Thank you for sharing your journeys. (((BluWave))) (((May22)))

[BluWave]

Hi everyone,

It’s been about 4 months since I’ve updated so I thought I would pop on for a bit. I do still check here often and loosely follow several threads. I’m disappointed to see so many people leaving and no longer updating, but I understand why. Unfortunately the energy continues to shift in a negative direction and there is less quality support overall. I started reading here 7 years ago when my H left and things were quite different then. I have thought about if there is something different I can add to these boards, but I honestly don’t have the motivation to take this on. I also refuse to waste my time arguing with people online. This place is for support and advice, with healthy boundaries, and not for protecting your own ego, defending your position or for put downs. If someone reading this doesn’t like what I’m saying or agree with my assessments of the boards, I respectfully ask that you scroll through and NOT comment here with your own reply. I will not host a conversation about board usage on my own thread.

Where my M stands today. H has been back in the M for over 6 years. I have to think about the timeline because I lose track of the years now. Triggers and resentments continue to fade into the background. Occasional memories come up and I note them and move forward. I never thought this could be possible the first couple years of piecing because I felt so emotionally triggered so often. So I maintain my belief that all wounds do heal in time.

My M is not perfect at all. Is it better than pre BD? Maybe? I love my H and the home and family we created and continue to nurture. I think we have a stable and comfortable life together, which I love. Am I smitten or feel in love or in lust with him? Well, not like I was before all this! But that’s okay with me. I can also recognize I had an unhealthy love for him before BD for many years and perhaps even put him on a pedestal. And he was the nicest guy and super dad, but really, he didn’t know how to state his needs and was a doormat at times that could not stand up to me. I was in turn impatient and frustrated or even controlling. And round and round we spun. That dynamic is no more.

We still have our disagreements and frustrations. Some dynamics are the same because we are the same people. We are also more self aware and more willing to compromise and change. I think that might be the key to a relationship lasting. Both people have to learn to be more flexible and own their issues. I am still a work in progress and will always be.

I see so much conversations on what is a deal breaker for people and they seem to be these things one can measure — a PA, some amount of EAs, “abuse” (which people also define differently), moving out of the house, some amount of time separated, filing for D, etc, etc. Don’t we all have some bottom line when we enter a M? We all do! But let me tell you what happens when your spouse starts crossing those lines. Your perspective starts to shift as you go through the motions of it. As you both move forward, your actions, reactions and thus positions on said bottom lines will and do change! So stating “once this happens the M is over” is short sighted and ignorant. You do not know how you will feel until is actually happens! So please do not limit yourself or judge others. Because as a person that had a laundry list of bottom lines that got violated, I was forced to remeasure every value I had over and over again! But you know what? It’s been so many years now and my M works. It has nothing to do with our bottom lines or the betrayal we both committed. It works because we both choose to be here each day and make it work. That’s all folks. Step into a more open minded way of thinking and you will find more benefits.

I continue to work as usual. Covid has slowed down. Our family is going on 2 big vacations this summer and I’m really excited about that! Our adult daughter is joining us so that should be wonderful/fun/stressful. Lol. I think the biggest update I have is that I am doing really well in the GAL and self care department. I have found a way of eating and exercising that I love! I feel good about my health and my body. I also have maintained some amazing friends that really feed my soul. My kids are awesome but each have had various hardships we try and support them through.

I welcome positive and thoughtful replies. For those of you reading that might need some nonjudgemental support, please feel free to reply here. So many of you I think about and would love to speak with. If you are a poster or newcomer and want to ask me something, please do so.

May — if you are reading, I think about you often, and I can only imagine the rollercoaster you are on. I hope you will check in here if you see this!

All my best,
Blu

[ovrrnbw]

Hey there,

hope all is well in your part of the world. I am still checking things out here too but I don't have as much time as I used to. You could say that I squandered the gift of time. I know this board will always hold a special place in my heart. It got me through the toughest time of my life. It helped shape me, helped change my mind, and I learned lots of relationshipo skills I wouldn't have otherwise. I think of many great posters here and I thank you and them.

I have a baby coming in less than a month, don't know if you saw my thread. I don't get on the gram much anymore so I'm not keeping up with anyone there. I am almost finished with the 4 agreements, it has been a good read. In many ways, it is a parallel to DB but coming at things from a different angle and honestly I love overthinking things so that is a huge plus for me.

Nice update. Have fun on the vacations.

[joejoe1]

Blu,

What's up? You'll are on the Gram together. Wow, I didn't get an invite. I'm glad to see you and the fam bam is doing good.

This July will make 4 years since BD. My wife has worked hard to show her loyalty. My triggers still come, but very rarely. We just got back from Vegas last week, first trip since COVID started and first time being without the kids. We have a few family trips coming up as well.

I agree with out about the traffic and support that has left this site. The no non-sense tone that has taken hold seems to be a bit destructive. I don't have the time to try and counter some of the other posters comments. I really prescribed to AS (detachment with love), Sandi (respect yourself and don't chase behind your spouse) and TxHubby (you are the prize worth fighting for). But those philosophies are being transfixed, (you don't have to take it, and D if your spouse don't change immediately).

I have read some situations on here, where I think the LBS have reached the end of their journey with their spouse, and in my opinion, it was time to move on from their spouse, but it was my opinion, and not my choice, so I presented the information in that vein. Now people are on here calling people weak for not leaving their spouse sooner. And when they finally do, they say things like, "you should have done that months ago". That sentiment wasn't on this board 4 years ago. And I'm glad it wasn't, because, I probably would of been lost, reading some of the comments, on a divorce busting site, having commenters, push for D.

My wife and I have been dealing with a lot of emotional issues with our boys. Especially the two middle ones. The oldest one is here visiting for the Summer, and we have to always counter what his mother has allowed him to do.
I guess I will have to update my thread soon as well.

[wayfarer]

Hey Blu,

A huge part of the reason I'm still here is waiting on updates from you and ovr. Piecing for almost a year now. It's nice to hear how other people are doing. Not that anyone can gauge their relationship next to another, but it helps me to gauge my mindset about where I should strive to be moving forward. Because it hasn't quite been a year I get hung up on triggers occasionally and it's nice to know that hurt while it's always going to linger just a little gets easier and easier with time. That life continues on. That people will still fight after all the mess and it doesn't spell disaster.

May isn't here right now. She may not return. Another poster Sage left bread crumbs on my thread of contact info and they've been communicating via email and spending much less time on here. H and I recently bought a home so I haven't had time to dig through my thread to find the pieces. But I intend to when things calm down and I can circle back and drop some May hints here for you. I know when she decided to exit she had trepidation missing out on updates from you.

Thank you for the time you spend/spent here. It's always appreciated and nice to have someone around who survived this. If for nothing else as a reminder that all MRs aren't doomed. That all WSs aren't irredeemable. And that LBSs can forgive and move on without forgetting.

Enjoy your breathers this summer. Given your work in the last year you truly, truly deserve that.

[OnlyBent]

Just a comment, but something that I have noticed is those that think the board has gotten negative seem to be those who have gotten a second chance from their WAS. It might be worth remembering that there are many on her whose S left them for another and have never looked back, not even for a second. A bit of empathy, from both sides, goes a long way.

[joejoe1]

Only,

Wow, really your perspective is a little off IMO. The only thing that separates the LBS spouses that came back and the ones that didn't, is the choice of the WS. My Wife decided to give our Marriage another chance. That was her decision. Our relationship and M hasn't nothing to do with the tone of this forum. In August of 2017 when I came to this board. Not one person was telling me I need to get a Divorce (Maybe LH). Any person that I can vaguely remember. I also had people on this Forum calling out my actions in the Marriage and how it contributed to the downfall of the M, even thou my wife had an Affair. I had Vets on here giving me great advice about detaching and taking responsibility for my actions inside the M. I has AS, explicitly hounding me to detach with love, and don't do anything towards Divorce until you know you are ready. I followed the advice of the Vets, I didn't argue or push back with what they were saying, I updated my thread with as much information as possible and as accurate as possible. And, I got a bunch of 2x4s to the head but none of it felt negative and none of it felt like attacks. Most of it felt like heart felt advice.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758010&page=11 (The start of my thread)

I had posters like 25, Txhubby, AS, Sandi, Holding, Joseph9 and many others really helping me along and hitting me upside the head about what type of husband and man I was. I don't see this type of interaction on here at the moment.

One of the reasons, I stopped posting as much, because, I didn't want my comments to come across as bragging or insensitive. My wife coming back hasn't always been great for me. I have struggled with staying in my Marriage, because Trust and loyalty is big for me. So, me saying that, I think could come across as insensitive for those, who WS haven't come back. But i wrestle with people in dire need of a person who's been thru where they have been and not coming across insensitive.

Onward and Forward