She's Gone Again - 10 Years On

[LH19]

Wayfarer I look forward to your posts everyday. Thank you for being nice to Smiles.

LH I think more the point is vows were made therefore commitment was promised and reliable trustworthy people keep their promises.

I would argue that most WS are not trustworthy.

Evolution means eff all if we use our higher selves. We have these big beautiful brains for a reason.

Yes but most decisions in these sitches are made on emotion. Not logic and reason from our big beautiful brains.

If this weren't so we might as well all being living in caves again.

My point is our brains don't know we are not living in caves.

similie's W also wasn't some naïve girl who was barely more than a child when she walked down the aisle.

My comment was about marriages in general but in this situation when she made those vows she had no idea what it would be like living with a man who was ill and hadn't worked for seven years. Again, not his fault but you see my point.

I have about a million thoughts on why this marriage didn't/isn't working.

As do I.

The archaic nature of matrimony isn't one of them.

I see we agree that it is archaic.

[JosephS]

Sorry for the hi-jack, but I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. LH, you don’t believe adults should be held responsible or accountable for promises they made to remain committed because they were young adults? And you believe marriage is archaic?

[MrBrside]

Sorry for the hi-jack, but I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. LH, you don’t believe adults should be held responsible or accountable for promises they made to remain committed because they were young adults? And you believe marriage is archaic?

I think the point LH is trying to make ( and i'm sure he will reply soon ) is that the average 22 year old person is rarely the same person they are 20 years later.

I am a totally different person to the person i was when i was 20. People change, as do priorities, and in some cases that persons values.

[MrBrside]

Sorry for the hi-jack, but I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. LH, you don’t believe adults should be held responsible or accountable for promises they made to remain committed because they were young adults? And you believe marriage is archaic?

and when it comes to accountabilty - well Joseph, you know the drill as well, if not better than most here..

Emotion kick in, rational goes out of the window and you no longer recognise the person you loved - and in their mind, who's fault is it - the LBS!

Cheaters rewrite history to escape accountability for their actions !

Its rare that a LBS comes here and posts about how their WW have accepted responsibility for the car crash they caused.

[LH19]

Sorry for the hi-jack, but I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. LH, you don’t believe adults should be held responsible or accountable for promises they made to remain committed because they were young adults? And you believe marriage is archaic?

I think the point LH is trying to make ( and i'm sure he will reply soon ) is that the average 22 year old person is rarely the same person they are 20 years later.

I am a totally different person to the person i was when i was 20. People change, as do priorities, and in some cases that persons values.

Bingo! Thanks Bside.

When the institution of marriage began people were lucky to live until they were 30.

Now we are living until 80-90. Being in close quarters with the same person for 60-70 years is very difficult.

Either something needs to change or people need to be more informed what this "promise" really consists of for the next 60 years. Of course this is only my opinion.

[wayfarer]

I would argue that most WS are not trustworthy.

Ageed, but that isn't what Steve was saying with the vows. Nor was that the purpose of my argument. WAW promised for better or worse, sickness and health. smilie shouldn't bear the burden of a broken promise as his fault. She might be in a situation now that she didn't sign up for. And there can be understanding there. But commitments are meant to be upheld. That failure is on WAW not smilie.

Yes but most decisions in these sitches are made on emotion. Not logic and reason from our big beautiful brains.

Fair enough, but still not my point. I'm well aware that in crisis we're all functioning on instinct. But a decision to break one's vows is far more calculated than instinctual. The running after and the fighting and everything else all instinctual. I'd maybe agree with you fully if I could tell if this WAW is in an MLC but given that this has happened before I think we're safe to say she isn't just running to run.

My comment was about marriages in general but in this situation when she made those vows she had no idea what it would be like living with a man who was ill and hadn't worked for seven years. Again, not his fault but you see my point.

Also agreed. But also not my point. You said barely older than 20. WAW here was not a 22 yo making promises she had no ability of knowing whether she could keep them or not. She was a little beyond the fairy tale age when she walked down the aisle. So once again the onus isn't on smilie. That was my point.

I see we agree that it is archaic.

To a point. My fundamentally feminist take on life doesn't allow me to not see marriage in it's full historical context. However, because I am who I am I also still believe in love and a forever kind of love. I always have. And no matter how many times I get burned I probably always will. It's a fundamental flaw of mine. Also until the legal system finds a better way to recognize partners at the end of one's life I'm still a pretty big advocate of it. I worked in probate for a while so I know how ugly things can get when that lovely little binding contract of marriage isn't done.

[Traveler]

Wayfarer offered some insightful words.

And this is so sad, isn't it? .

Yes and no! Yes, you’ve lost a partner you “need” and that will make life harder in the short run. No, long-term I suspect you will discover beyond the monthly check you don’t “need” her to survive or be happy. You cited her as an “obstacle” to starting your own business and now that obstacle is removed. Smiles, this could be an empowering year.

I agree with wayfarer to start with therapy. Find coaches in other areas, too!

As to fitness, my trainers find ways to make me sweat whether I have a cold, a stress fracture, or an impingement. To be clear, I’m not rich—I’m paying $70/month for 5x/week group training. Many gyms and PTs offer a free first training session where you can outline your limits and learn possible workarounds. Physical therapists specialize in working around disabilities and can be seen for 2-4 sessions with or without insurance. With constant and/or unexpected vertigo maybe, e.g., they’d recommend weight machines over free weights so a sudden loss of coordination wouldn’t hurt you. Maybe instead of a M, W, F schedule they’d have you train on whatever good days you have even if it’s only 90 out of 365 days. That’s probably still more training than the average middle-aged adult.

There aren't any support groups, except a couple online which I gave up on as it was all about people wanting to take pills and I couldn't stare at a computer screen all the time because of my eyes.

That sounds like an excuse—eye fatigue as a reason not to engage on a forum about your illness, given you are able to engage on this forum to find ways to bust your divorce. It wouldn’t take too many words. “Hi forum! Does my illness mean it’s impossible for me to ever exercise? Has anyone here exercised after their diagnosis?” That may sound insensitive. I have an XGF with a neurological disease. I get both living an illness and being a caregiver are hard. Just getting through a day may take more effort than my normal day plus 2.5hr fitness routine plus chores. You may have to choose strategically one of your 180s instead of three. Breakups suck. I’m glad you keep posting! I do believe in you, though!

[LH19]

[ However, because I am who I am I also still believe in love and a forever kind of love. I always have. And no matter how many times I get burned I probably always will. It's a fundamental flaw of mine.

I do too. Although due to my experiences I feel that this kind of love is only meant for my children.

[SteveLW]

Sorry for the hi-jack, but I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. LH, you don’t believe adults should be held responsible or accountable for promises they made to remain committed because they were young adults? And you believe marriage is archaic?

I think the point LH is trying to make ( and i'm sure he will reply soon ) is that the average 22 year old person is rarely the same person they are 20 years later.

I am a totally different person to the person i was when i was 20. People change, as do priorities, and in some cases that persons values.

That I agree with. I advocate people NOT marry until late 20s at earliest as today's generation are much less mature than in decades past. However, based on smilie's signature info, his wife was a GROWN-BUTT-WOMAN when she committed to their MR. So this early 20s argument is ignorant in this context.

[LH19]

That I agree with. I advocate people NOT marry until late 20s at earliest as today's generation are much less mature than in decades past.

So Steve in your mind what decade was the generation very mature? 60s, 70s?

However, based on smilie's signature info, his wife was a GROWN-BUTT-WOMAN when she committed to their MR. So this early 20s argument is ignorant in this context.

My point with him is that is easy to say in sickness and in health until you are the only one working for seven years. Again, not his fault that he got sick. Not excuses his W.

Point is it is MY opinion in the future marriages will be more like contracts and will be renegotiated every 5-7 years.