Charting My Course (Part 2)

[Gekko]

Hi All,

It's been quite awhile since I've checked in here, just far too busy between work, kids and various GAL activities. Haven't read anyone else's sitch in forever but still want to try and give something back to the boards in the future. I'm like a broken record on that, I know. One of these days.

So my D is FINAL. As in the judge approved the papers and we are officially done. As much as you can be when you still have two young kids together anyway. A couple of my buddies wanted to go out for a big steak dinner to celebrate, but truth be told getting the papers finalized was very anti-climatic for me, as the MR was dead and buried for me pretty quickly after BD. So no celebration dinner per se, though we are going to get some steaks soon just because. To celebrate life in general and friendship.

I see my ex pretty frequently due to kids activities and it's fine. It's easy in part because I don't want her back and would not take her back in the unlikely event she asked to give it another shot. She can feel that I have zero interest in her and zero time for her other than to get straight to the point of kid logistics. In social settings involving other parents it's all good and many people have commented how great it is that we can get along and be at the same events in the same group of people and it's cool.

I started dating but nothing remotely serious. In my prior experience as a bachelor, I have always just lived my life and done my thing and dated around for fun, and eventually an amazing women just seems to fall in my lap. I am not seeking, I am just living, and letting life unfold. Summer is underway and it is going to be a really great one.

In doing the occasional retrospectives on my MR, I have pretty clearly identified my mistakes and owned them. As for my exes overly critical and harsh commentary toward me, among other issues, I could have and some say should have BD'd her years ago due to her BS, but I don't really regret not doing so. I got several extra years of full time with the kids under one roof, which was fantastic. I have to admit that I might feel a little more swagger now if I had just BD'd her and said enough, you're out, but it's not really grinding on me or bothering me that I didn't.

Listen, I saw evidence of my exes personality issues when we were dating and called her out at the first instant i saw a potential problem. She clearly understood me and appeared to course-correct. I thought we had an understanding but her core nature never did change and the harshness resurfaced after kids. But I take responsibility because I married her and did not have to. I could have been more skeptical that she had changed in her core being. I feel good about looking at myself and accepting responsibility for making the decision to marry her despite what i had seen in her.

My reaction to her critical harshness was sometimes perfect and sometimes not, and I'm fine with all of it. When I wasn't perfect it's because I'm human and also because I was grasping for alternative approaches to just get her to effing stop when the right responses weren't getting results. Ultimately, I now believe that the best response was probably to have just BD'd her when my appropriate reactions had no effect, instead of some of the other stuff i did. Oh well. Lessons learned. But look i think it is important to say that I was and am not a victim. I felt for awhile that i had somewhat slipped into that mentality but that feeling is mostly gone. It helps to say it out loud. I am not a victim.

Anyway I've rambled on for too long. I encourage everyone to stay positive, GAL and don't let your sitch drag you down. Don't allow your identity to be defined by your WW or WAW. Take control of you life, all of it, grab it with both hands. Unless you believe in reincarnation, this is it so make the most of it. Don't be afraid of being alone for awhile, or of new experiences and R's. Don't let fear dictate your decisions. Put a smile on your face and watch how much better it will make you feel, it really works.

[SteveLW]

Good update. I think the biggest learning as you head into dating again is to NOT ignore red flags during dating. Most of us that have been through a BD (or 2) can look back and see where before and shortly after marriage, there were red flags that we chose to ignore. You now have a chance to go into the next R with your eyes wide open.

Beauty, being fun, and all of that goes with it means nothing if the person has severe character flaws. We guys I think are worse at recognizing red flags because we are so visual. "She is gorgeous, sexy, in good shape!" When we look shallowly at a potential mate we shouldn't be surprised when that is exactly what we end up with: a mate with no depth.

So Gekko I love that you admit to overlooking the red flags with your EX, it sets you up to not make that mistake again!

[LH19]

Hi All,

[quote=Gekko] It's been quite awhile since I've checked in here, just far too busy between work, kids and various GAL activities. Haven't read anyone else's sitch in forever but still want to try and give something back to the boards in the future. I'm like a broken record on that, I know. One of these days.

Gek it would be great to have a really go DBer on here giving advice.

So my D is FINAL. As in the judge approved the papers and we are officially done. As much as you can be when you still have two young kids together anyway. A couple of my buddies wanted to go out for a big steak dinner to celebrate, but truth be told getting the papers finalized was very anti-climatic for me, as the MR was dead and buried for me pretty quickly after BD. So no celebration dinner per se, though we are going to get some steaks soon just because. To celebrate life in general and friendship.

I think divorce parties are absolutely disgusting. Not sure what sick fuch came up with it.

I see my ex pretty frequently due to kids activities and it's fine. It's easy in part because I don't want her back and would not take her back in the unlikely event she asked to give it another shot. She can feel that I have zero interest in her and zero time for her other than to get straight to the point of kid logistics. In social settings involving other parents it's all good and many people have commented how great it is that we can get along and be at the same events in the same group of people and it's cool.

Just so you know this may change over time. I was the same after my D but circumstances changed that dynamic.

I started dating but nothing remotely serious. In my prior experience as a bachelor, I have always just lived my life and done my thing and dated around for fun, and eventually an amazing women just seems to fall in my lap. I am not seeking, I am just living, and letting life unfold. Summer is underway and it is going to be a really great one.

I have been dating roughly 2 years with a couple mini exclusive relationships. I am sure an amazing woman will again fall into my lap.

In doing the occasional retrospectives on my MR, I have pretty clearly identified my mistakes and owned them. As for my exes overly critical and harsh commentary toward me, among other issues, I could have and some say should have BD'd her years ago due to her BS, but I don't really regret not doing so. I got several extra years of full time with the kids under one roof, which was fantastic. I have to admit that I might feel a little more swagger now if I had just BD'd her and said enough, you're out, but it's not really grinding on me or bothering me that I didn't.

I could say the exact same thing except for instead of critical harsh words she was texting other dudes.

I encourage everyone to stay positive, GAL and don't let your sitch drag you down. Don't allow your identity to be defined by your WW or WAW. Take control of you life, all of it, grab it with both hands. Unless you believe in reincarnation, this is it so make the most of it. Don't be afraid of being alone for awhile, or of new experiences and R's. Don't let fear dictate your decisions. Put a smile on your face and watch how much better it will make you feel, it really works.

Agree 100% Gek!

Beauty, being fun, and all of that goes with it means nothing if the person has severe character flaws. We guys I think are worse at recognizing red flags because we are so visual. "She is gorgeous, sexy, in good shape!" When we look shallowly at a potential mate we shouldn't be surprised when that is exactly what we end up with: a mate with no depth.

Uuuuummm just so you know Steve, there are gorgeous, sexy and in good shape women who also have depth.

[SteveLW]

Uuuuummm just so you know Steve, there are gorgeous, sexy and in good shape women who also have depth.

Never said there weren't.

[Ready2Change]

...just far too busy between work, kids and various GAL activities...but still want to try and give something back to the boards in the future.

Thanks for the update....Maybe one way to give back is to post about your GAL during COVID. Many posters struggle with GAL ideas.

[BL42]

Gekko,

Great update! I read through your entire sitch (2-3yrs) after seeing your latest post yesterday. Other than the MR result, what a great positive DB story. You seemed strong and collected from the very start - well done! I wish I was stronger from the start, but have over the months gotten much more into your mindset. A number of things in your sitch resonate with me from the focus on the kids, to the holding off on dating and not making it a priority. Glad to hear all is well.

Haven't read anyone else's sitch in forever but still want to try and give something back to the boards in the future. I'm like a broken record on that, I know. One of these days.

Gek it would be great to have a really go DBer on here giving advice.

This would be fantastic. Please do make the time to share if you're able. Wish more people would pop back in and give updates/provide feedback. I'd certainly benefit, but even more so the folks right after BD.

So my D is FINAL. As in the judge approved the papers and we are officially done. As much as you can be when you still have two young kids together anyway. A couple of my buddies wanted to go out for a big steak dinner to celebrate, but truth be told getting the papers finalized was very anti-climatic for me, as the MR was dead and buried for me pretty quickly after BD. So no celebration dinner per se, though we are going to get some steaks soon just because. To celebrate life in general and friendship.

I think divorce parties are absolutely disgusting. Not sure what sick fuch came up with it.

It must be a relief to finalize the process - I know it was for me. The waiting and back and forth is not fun. I think you're right not to celebrate - to me, it doesn't seem right to celebrate such a thing - but do like the idea of going out with the friends to celebrate life / the future. Great GAL.

I see my ex pretty frequently due to kids activities and it's fine. It's easy in part because I don't want her back and would not take her back in the unlikely event she asked to give it another shot. She can feel that I have zero interest in her and zero time for her other than to get straight to the point of kid logistics. In social settings involving other parents it's all good and many people have commented how great it is that we can get along and be at the same events in the same group of people and it's cool.

Just so you know this may change over time. I was the same after my D but circumstances changed that dynamic.

I see my Ex-W many times a week do to the young kids and me caring for them on her weeks, and then the sporting events...etc. I personally wish it were fewer times we had to cross paths, but maybe my detachment will get there.
LH19 - Change how?

I started dating but nothing remotely serious. In my prior experience as a bachelor, I have always just lived my life and done my thing and dated around for fun, and eventually an amazing women just seems to fall in my lap. I am not seeking, I am just living, and letting life unfold. Summer is underway and it is going to be a really great one.

Any stories to share? LOL

In doing the occasional retrospectives on my MR, I have pretty clearly identified my mistakes and owned them. As for my exes overly critical and harsh commentary toward me, among other issues, I could have and some say should have BD'd her years ago due to her BS, but I don't really regret not doing so. I got several extra years of full time with the kids under one roof, which was fantastic. I have to admit that I might feel a little more swagger now if I had just BD'd her and said enough, you're out, but it's not really grinding on me or bothering me that I didn't.

Great perspective.

Listen, I saw evidence of my exes personality issues when we were dating and called her out at the first instant i saw a potential problem. She clearly understood me and appeared to course-correct. I thought we had an understanding but her core nature never did change and the harshness resurfaced after kids. But I take responsibility because I married her and did not have to. I could have been more skeptical that she had changed in her core being. I feel good about looking at myself and accepting responsibility for making the decision to marry her despite what i had seen in her.

I think the biggest learning as you head into dating again is to NOT ignore red flags during dating. Most of us that have been through a BD (or 2) can look back and see where before and shortly after marriage, there were red flags that we chose to ignore. You now have a chance to go into the next R with your eyes wide open.

Beauty, being fun, and all of that goes with it means nothing if the person has severe character flaws. We guys I think are worse at recognizing red flags because we are so visual. "She is gorgeous, sexy, in good shape!" When we look shallowly at a potential mate we shouldn't be surprised when that is exactly what we end up with: a mate with no depth.

So Gekko I love that you admit to overlooking the red flags with your EX, it sets you up to not make that mistake again!

Same here. Looking back there were red flags I didn't pick up on, or give enough significance to. Key for all of us is to understand those flags better moving forward and not making the same mistake again.

I encourage everyone to stay positive, GAL and don't let your sitch drag you down. Don't allow your identity to be defined by your WW or WAW. Take control of you life, all of it, grab it with both hands. Unless you believe in reincarnation, this is it so make the most of it. Don't be afraid of being alone for awhile, or of new experiences and R's. Don't let fear dictate your decisions. Put a smile on your face and watch how much better it will make you feel, it really works.

^This!

Best of luck post-D!

[Gekko]

Following up on Steve's comments above about Red Flags ("RF") - this is a major major subject area and probably deserving of more analysis, discussion and brainpower than I can provide, but i did want to pop back on the board with a few thoughts and my own cautionary tale.

First off I say never let RF behavior go unaddressed. Raise the issue on the spot. If for some reason it's not a great time to discuss it on the spot, follow-up ASAP at the first opportunity. But always make it known that you have an issue at the time of the RF, even if it with a look and body language.

When I discuss RF behavior I try not to make it about right and wrong, I just make it clear that the RF behavior does not work for me and why. Calllllmmmmmly. It's not about pointing fingers. The question is whether we are a good match. For instance with my ex, I immediately raised the name-calling harshness as an issue the first time i experienced it. I said I had an issue with that type of communication in a R, had never been in a R with that level of harshness, and never would be. And I specifically said to her it was not about right or wrong, it was about what I know would not work for me and that we were just not a good match if that's how she was going to communicate.

She appeared to get the message. She's a smart girl with many great qualities. Of course she also reverted back to the harshness, and then some, after a wedding and a couple of kids. Which leads me to my next important point and my cautionary tale.

Raising a RF, talking it out, feeling as if the message was received, watching RF behavior disappear thus confirming she got the message - these are all great. Fantastic. It's the whole idea behind raising the issue. However, as everyone here knows there is no guarantee of future performances.....

So where I went wrong in my RF assessment is that I did not focus enough on what i call the True Nature of my ex. Yes she got my message and ended (temporarily as it turns out) the harsh BS. She was faced with the prospect of me ending the dating R so she changed. But what she changed was only the manifestation of her underlying issues - high-strung, high-anxiety, anger management, control issues, etc. So i suppose it should have been apparent that without digging much deeper and addressing those underlying problems, her harsh talk, snideness, sarcastic insulting commentary would manifest over time.

I saw that she could be this way. Her family and old friends all know her to be this way. They all had a good laugh whenever I checked her behavior as they were not used to seeing that. They were used to her raging and bullying to get her way. Doesn't work on me.

But I knew, deep down I knew her True Nature. So I made the decision to focus on her keeping her mouth in check as a sign that she knew it was a deal-breaker and would end the R. But her True Nature did not change. So in a sense you can say yes I did overlook the real RF.

I'm a cautionary tale to the extent that it appeared on the surface that the RF behavior was corrected, so all is well right? Sorry, nope. It's deeper than that and it requires much more thought and analysis than what I invested. You have to look at not only RF behavior, but what is behind it, get to the root of it, and only then can you fully evaluate what you are dealing with. You have to do the work up front.

[Traveler]

Interesting read, Gecko, as someone occasionally dating I appreciate the thoughts and advice. (:

[Michka]

Gekko this is really interesting because I too had red flags which I thought were addressed and resolved before marriage and then again during marriage... so I had a question for you.

How do you define or what is it you see as a red flag?

Also, given the dynamic nature of relationships and life in general do you think that RF are generally always present from the start or perhaps potentially manifest themselves along the way?

[Gekko]

To answer your question Michka, I feel that there are several general categories of Red Flags. The first being anything that would fall into a category of behavior that I suspect most everyone would agree to be either toxic or seriously worrying - such as alcohol or drug abuse, violent temper/anger management issues, major inability to manage finances, extremely poor decision making, lack of responsibility, not trusthworthy, very poor choice of friends, poor health habits, etc etc.

There is a separate category of Red Flags that are very specific to me, relating to my personal values, lifestyle, interests, desires, etc. If a woman exhibits behaviors or beliefs or desires that are not a good match for me, those would be Red Flags to me. Understanding that they would not necessarily be Red Flags to someone else. It's about matching up, and the behavior at issue is not toxic, it's just not a good match for what i want.

I think there is another category of Red Flags that I might refer to as Passive Red Flags or Background Red Flags, which refers to someone's life history and what they have been subjected to. Childhood abuse, lots of divorce throughout the family, toxic family or serious family issues, severe issues in prior MR or R, etc - these are things that would be Red Flags for me even though they are in the background and may not have yet appeared to have manifested behaviorally, at least not to me and not yet. The concern of course is that such serious background issues will eventually manifest in certain behavior that could be a real problem for a R.

I guess that's my general definition of the Red Flag categories as I currently see them.