When the institution of marriage began people were lucky to live until they were 30.
Now we are living until 80-90. Being in close quarters with the same person for 60-70 years is very difficult.
This has more to do with the evolution of the institution of marriage rather than life expectancy. Look at how many people get divorced young and within 5 years of marriage even when they have kids together. Marriage has evolved to be more of a social and more importantly legal contract. Yes, our hormones play tricks on us to make us believe in soulmates and true love but over time, the reality surfaces. In older days, people stuck together because it was harder to get divorced. Men and women often had distinct roles and it was hard for one to take over the responsibilities of the other. Today, that is no longer a barrier with women working and men being able to take care of the house and kids. There was also stigma attached to getting divorced which is no longer the case.
Originally Posted by wayfarer
WAW promised for better or worse, sickness and health. smilie shouldn't bear the burden of a broken promise as his fault.
The person breaking a promise rarely bears the burden at least in the short term. If they had to bear the burden, they would likely not break the promise. It is usually the other person that is impacted
And speaking of promises and vows, do they really mean anything anymore other than personal convictions? 50% of marriages end in divorce. A large percentage of the ones that don't end in D, involve breaking vows in some form of the other such as EA/PA or even thinking about an EA/PA. What % of couples can truly say they never broke *any* of their marriage vows? I wonder if we can say with confidence that marriage vows are more meaningful than 'pinky promises' made by kids?
First off, may I thank you for all of your replies and the time you have taken to respond. It means more that you will ever know at this point in my life. Again, thank you.
I would like to stress, seriously stress, that my wife didn't give any clues, any complaints or any comments that she wasn't happy. This is difficult to get across, but if she had of done, then I would have sat down with her straight away to discuss such things. There was nothing, honestly, absolutely nothing. I didn't miss the clues, I didn't miss any comments and there was absolutely no nagging - there wasn't the previous time either. There was no mention that she wasn't happy or that I was doing somethings wrong, there was no moaning, she doesn't do that. Like her mother, she is silent in such things. She and I were even discussing what we were going to do this year and we just spent a load of money for the garden and planting vegetables, which I grew from seed, for us to save money on our organic veg order.
3 weeks later, she was gone and the first thing I noticed was 5 days prior, when the kiss she gave me when leaving for work didn't feel right. That week I noticed a lot. I asked is we were ok - "yes", she said. She let it slip that she had booked a week off work and when I said I didn't know that she had and she didn't mention it, she replied "I told you ages ago" - she didn't. She didn't mention it the week prior either, otherwise I would have suggested going away for a break. And I did when I found out - "I don't know what I'm doing yet", she replied. Another lie and a comment she would never have made before. On the Friday I asked if she was going to run again, "No", she said. I asked again, "No, I'm not". "Really?", I calmly asked. Then this is when she said that she was going to stay with her sister for a couple of days, to think. This was obviously a lie, as her sister has not got ANY space in her house and she didn't want to 'think'. This was just an excuse to get out of the house and walk in to the life she had previously prepared. She took no clothes or belongings, except her hairdryer, hair straighteners, the shoes on her feet and the clothes on her back, a small overnight bag to give the impression she was going for a short while (that probably contained the important documents she took) and her laptop. That was it.
This was the first I heard and that 's because I noticed that week. Prior to that everything was fine. Sharing a bed, sharing a life, holding hands indoors and out. No sex though for weeks. Planning for the future, laughing, joking (she said that's what she likes about me, I always make her laugh), talking about loads of stuff. She mentioned nothing. Honestly. I would have known.
As far as asking if it was women that mainly exhibited this trait, I didn't mean anything by it and certainly wasn't being sexist - please forgive if I offended. It's just that from what I have read, the stories and examples seem to be more angled to women. There are a few examples of men doing similar things, I agree, but it's termed WAW, not WAH, so I was just curious.
One things that I have found is "Spousal Abandonment Syndrome", where there is no indication AT ALL, that the S is going to leave and there is usually another person involved. This seems to go in line with my experience more than WAW, in as much as the way that she left, but then the rest fits into WAW fairly snuggly.
Let's talk about depression. Please be assured that over the past 10-11 years I have not been depressed at all, seriously, I haven't. Having been depressed before, which ground me down big time, I can quite categorically say that I haven't been depressed for a fair number of years. I am however, fed up with this illness and it limitations, but I am cheerful most of the time, speak to people easy, go out and mix quite readily, etc. I am happy when my wife comes home from work, {when she used to come home from work} like to hear about her day when she came home and paid her attention - maybe not enough romantic attention granted - but a hug from behind when she was doing something and a kiss on the neck, was always accepted and reacted to positively, even up to a few days before she left. An Act?
Since she has left I have had a hell of a time with high levels of anxiety. This is what you are reading I would assume. Yes, I am sad, really sad. I cannot understand (and never will probably), how this has once again happened with ABSOLUTELY NO INDICATION that there was any issue whatsoever (please believe me on this, once again, there truly wasn't).
Today I have been to see a doctor and yes he has put me on anxiety medication (that I didn't want to go on) as I cannot keep shaking in this way, not sleeping and losing this much weight this quickly. My skin has now gone saggy and dry due to the stress and amount of weight I continue to lose. I dropped half a stone the week following my wife leaving and now I have lost over a stone within 4 weeks. I look like an old person and none of my clothes fit me anymore. Furthermore, I do not have the money to buy new ones.
As far as trying to apply logic and make sense of things, yes I continue to be guilty of this. I cannot stop my brain trying to work things out, but understand that I must. I need to get myself into a mental and physical position where I can cope with this and build myself back to where I was 5 short weeks ago. I was working out, sort of, regularly, picking up martial arts again and planning out a business idea, just days before my wife walked out. I was confident and strong and now, since she is gone, I am emotionally and physically weak and my self-esteem has been shot to pieces.
She is coming round in a little over 2 weeks to collect her belongings and I need to get myself sorted as best I can by then. A big task. I shall never be able to put the weight back on by then, but I hope that I'll be able to sort out my psychology, even if I go to bits after she's left - which I probably will.
I've been out today as I couldn't face being in the house. It was the first day that I've had where I have not had to do anything urgent, or phone anybody, or have an online meeting with my lawyer. It is also the day after my lawyer sent her lawyer a letter requesting her intentions, sharing my intentions and requesting monies that were taken without agreement, to be replaced. I have been dreading this and the response that will inevitably follow. I am expecting that she is up for a divorce, just like she said she was a little over 2 weeks ago. I have heard nothing fro her in that time, despite her telling me to expect a letter from her lawyer. I spent the morning and half the afternoon in the park, went to the doctors and then the pub. I took my reading material - DR - to catch-up on the low-down and re-familiarize myself with MWD's material. All seems to be based on MR's where people haven't split, with some examples and comment of those that have. This has been my study today and I am wondering if it's all a little too late.
Please understand that it was vital that this lawyer's letter was sent and shared, as the rent on this house and my living conditions are linked to her intentions. Seeing as she is paying the rent, she has told me that she will pay it until August, however, because she hasn't started proceedings and they take time, it is apparently an unreasonable timescale and needs negotiation.
I also promised her that I would give her what she wants - Divorce - so communicated that I would honour that, without taking action on it, just asking her agreement. So the ball is in her court and I would expect that she will come back and agree that I initiate a divorce - not something that I have ever wanted, but something that I will have to do if she says that is what she wants. This will need to be done because of the property rent as the length of time that this will be paid for will be determined on the length of time proceedings take. I believe that things should be talked about and resolved, not just thrown away in the heat of the moment and without communicated due cause. But what other choice do I have, as I will have to move out of this rented accommodation and then she can never come back? This is why we have asked her intention.
I appreciate all of your input, I really so, I am a mere beginner in this and I never expected a past situation to re-occur, especially her admitting to OP and having committed adultery - a big, big shock! But she does have a trait of having affairs I suppose, as she had one with me. I should have seen it then but didn't recognise or even think that she would do the same to me a few years down the line. I did wait 8 years before I agreed to get married, to make sure we were ok and it was exactly one year after that that all this began - on out first year anniverssary. Prior to that everything was good, our sex life was great and then after we were married, it slowed significantly. It tookk 3 days to comsumate the marriage. She has never refused sex, but she seemed to prefer to read her book (kindle) in bed than to pay attention to us - this is something that I mentioned at counselling 9 years ago. When she doesn't pick up her kindle as soon as she gets in bed and wants a 'cuddle' I know that she wanted sex. This is the only time she comes for a cuddle and it always has to end in sex. Why can we just cuddle and chat and fall asleep like we used to?
So that's me.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
I am sorry you are struggling right now. Right now you are in the thick of it and I am sure when the dust settles you will start to see the signs. My EXW NEVER claimed she was unhappy or asked to go to MC. But looking back now I could see she was unhappy. Snapping at the kids a lot. Typically in a bad mood. She felt caged like an animal with no way out.
Regardless, you need to take the focus off her and put the focus on your health first. Take it hour by hour or minute by minute.
And speaking of promises and vows, do they really mean anything anymore other than personal convictions? 50% of marriages end in divorce. A large percentage of the ones that don't end in D, involve breaking vows in some form of the other such as EA/PA or even thinking about an EA/PA. What % of couples can truly say they never broke *any* of their marriage vows? I wonder if we can say with confidence that marriage vows are more meaningful than 'pinky promises' made by kids?
Spit my coffee (pinky promises) but to your point you are absolutely correct and would argue this has been going on for centuries.
You cited her as an “obstacle” to starting your own business and now that obstacle is removed. Smiles, this could be an empowering year.
I agree with this and have thought the same. I am trying to focus to get this started. It involves coding and it's really difficult to concentrate on it feeling this way. Hopefully the tablets will help when they kick in. Meanwhile, I shall put an hour in each day and make a start.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I agree with wayfarer to start with therapy. Find coaches in other areas, too!
Due to having no money at hand, I have registered with the state run systems. CBT they have suggested (not convinced) and there is an 8 week waiting list. It's been 3 weeks, so 5 weeks left. No appointment yet. I have been thinking about a relationship counselling charity here, that help people come to terms with separation. They should have flexible pricing models so it will be affordable. Other than that, what type of counselling/coaching would anybody recommend I look for?
Originally Posted by CWarrior
As to fitness, my trainers find ways to make me sweat whether I have a cold, a stress fracture, or an impingement. To be clear, I’m not rich—I’m paying $70/month for 5x/week group training. Many gyms and PTs offer a free first training session where you can outline your limits and learn possible workarounds. Physical therapists specialize in working around disabilities and can be seen for 2-4 sessions with or without insurance. With constant and/or unexpected vertigo maybe, e.g., they’d recommend weight machines over free weights so a sudden loss of coordination wouldn’t hurt you. Maybe instead of a M, W, F schedule they’d have you train on whatever good days you have even if it’s only 90 out of 365 days. That’s probably still more training than the average middle-aged adult.
I used to do bodybuilding when I was younger and am familiar with the gym exercises I can do. I am able to use free weights. I can push myself without issue and I have a small gym here at home. The only difference is I don't get to "mingle". I used to be a member of the only gym here in town, and it's a awful one. Nothing is maintained and it it really pokey and dirty. It's only a small town where I live and facilities are almost non-existent, which is a shame.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Originally Posted by smiles
There aren't any support groups, except a couple online which I gave up on as it was all about people wanting to take pills and I couldn't stare at a computer screen all the time because of my eyes.
That sounds like an excuse—eye fatigue as a reason not to engage on a forum about your illness, given you are able to engage on this forum to find ways to bust your divorce. It wouldn’t take too many words. “Hi forum! Does my illness mean it’s impossible for me to ever exercise? Has anyone here exercised after their diagnosis?” That may sound insensitive. I have an XGF with a neurological disease. I get both living an illness and being a caregiver are hard. Just getting through a day may take more effort than my normal day plus 2.5hr fitness routine plus chores. You may have to choose strategically one of your 180s instead of three. Breakups suck. I’m glad you keep posting! I do believe in you, though!
It's not an excuse, honestly, even though it may sound like one. Putting on a pair of reading glasses in order to use the computer, make me spin almost instantly. Eye fatigue does follow, but is not the main issue, dizziness is. This condition is made worse/triggered by visual stimulation and head movement (nothing to do with balance either), as head movement changes the way your eyes see things and therefore triggers a neurological response.
Hard exercise takes the 'edge' off my symptoms I found, as does polishing the car, until I go to bed and wake up the next day. I have worked out for years with this illness in my home gym. Yes it take a huge amount of effort and I am completely knackered afterwards and really tired throughout, but I do it. So I've picked that up again daily.
Vestibular migraine forums that are available have never been productive to me. There is never any suggestions and people just want to take medication that never works. They moan and complain and spend all day in bed. I'm solutions focused and have been looking for and trying different things up until my wife left, including iodine, Vitamin C, Tryptohan, water fasting, organic diet, plant-based diets, foods that I may be allergic to (after a hair test), physio specifically for deep neck flexors, physio for migraine (Watson Approach), private blood tests, Limbic system retraining, etc. Whilst people on the groups couldn't be bothered to try anything apart from wait for a magic pill. I am still looking for answers and have for 7 entire years, with the help of my wife. I even have the idea of starting a solutions-focused group for VM. I spoke about this at length with my wife a couple of months back and she agreed it was a good idea because there isn't anything like it - something else to do as my 180!
I've tried all I can think of over the past 7 years and I will not stop until I find a solution. Look online at the medical information for Vestibular Migraine and they say that there is no cure, just options to manage it. These options only work for the minority of people and not me. My thought is that this condition is misdiagnosed and I have been told as much by the medical professional in the ENT clinic who tested me. He told me that if they can't find anything wrong with my balance system, they just put you in the "Vestibular Migraine" bin. I think it's more. I think it's brain trauma caused by an event - in my case a violent vertigo attack that lasted weeks. Furthermore it was discovered that I have an pituitary tumour and it's not known if that has a bearing, or a cause, to VM. The medical industry do not care and will not even attempt to link the two. I have an appointment each year with the endocrine clinic and when I tell them I still have all my symptoms, nothing has got better and nothing has got worse and is there anything that can be done, the response I get it "See you next year". This pituitary tumour effects my sex drive and that is recognised, as does the feelings of being knackered and dizzy almost all of the time.
My point is this: Being on this forum is important to me, really important and believe you me, because I have worn my glasses for an hour or so in order to read and reply, my head feels like jelly and awful. Yes, my eyes are also blurry and will remain so for many many weeks. It is an effort and it triggers dizziness. So please be assured that it is certainly not an excuse. It's something that not a lot of people understand unless you have got it, or have lived with somebody who has.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
Smilie, Regardless, you need to take the focus off her and put the focus on your health first. Take it hour by hour or minute by minute.
It's good you've addressed the anxiety over this. I know you didn't want the meds but it helps I promise. It helps with sleep, with eating. With surviving.
I lost 60lbs because of my stich. I needed to lose weight my depression and find meds that worked packed pounds on my body. But I didn't need to lose so much so fast. I lost it so quickly my hair was falling out. About 20 lbs rebounded back on my body almost immediately once I started eating real meals again because I lost the weight too fast. How about we focus on your nutrition next.. On my worst days I lived on meal replacement shakes and water. Liquid was the only thing I could keep in. What are kind of food you can handle right now?
Now as to sleep. I'm guessing you're not sleeping. What are ways you're helping yourself find sleep? I have tons and tons of suggestions for this if you need them.
You will be amazed at how much less chaotic you feel once you've gotten some solid sleep and some calories in you.
Smilie, One advice I would give you is to look forward and not second guess things in the past. It does not matter whether she did not give you signs in the past, it does not matter whether she did give signs and you missed them, it does not matter if there were things you could have done better to prevent this from happening. Most LBS dwell on what could have been done but it is usually not productive.
Look forward from where you are today. Focus on the present and focus on what you can control. Be confident that whatever happens, you will come out of this better and stronger.
My comment was about marriages in general but in this situation when she made those vows she had no idea what it would be like living with a man who was ill and hadn't worked for seven years. Again, not his fault but you see my point.
Also agreed. But also not my point. You said barely older than 20. WAW here was not a 22 yo making promises she had no ability of knowing whether she could keep them or not. She was a little beyond the fairy tale age when she walked down the aisle. So once again the onus isn't on smilie. That was my point.
I would also like to add here, that after one year of us being together, she woke up yellow - jaundis. She was diagnosed with Autoimmune Hepatitis and she spnt 2 weeks in hospital and needed to go on steroids which made her gain weight and then an immunosuppressant. She was in tears worrying that I would dump her and not love her anymore because her body blew up and she gained weight in a few weeks (she had a tiny frame prior to that). For 7.5 years I stood by, not once thinking I didn't want to be with her - liver biopsies, bone scans and a termination due to the specialist telling her not to get pregnant as they didn't know if the baby would be affected or if my wife life would be at risk. She culdn't take the pill because of the liver issue and we used protection, but one still got through! Never any counselling and it has affected us to this day. She has never been able to get pregnant since - we have tried, but not that hard as she is more focused on career and never really said that she really wanted a child. Through all this, I loved her - I love her (still do really). This was years before we were married. I didn't need a vow to be faithful as it's in my values as a man. I would never and have never had eyes for anybody else in 19 years. I couldn't do that to anybody as it was done to me in my first ever relationship and I found out how it felt. And now I am finding out all over again.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
I am sorry you are struggling right now. Right now you are in the thick of it and I am sure when the dust settles you will start to see the signs. My EXW NEVER claimed she was unhappy or asked to go to MC. But looking back now I could see she was unhappy. Snapping at the kids a lot. Typically in a bad mood. She felt caged like an animal with no way out.
Nope, none of that. We haven't got kids but she never snapped, never argued, never complained. Just gave the impression all was good and rosey. Honestly, there were no signs. I know people here will find that hard to believe - lord know I do myself - but there was absolutely nothing. She was never sad. We always laughed and joked, made funny comments, sent funny text messages and emails - right up to the week she left.
Originally Posted by LH19
Regardless, you need to take the focus off her and put the focus on your health first. Take it hour by hour or minute by minute.
I agree and that's what I have been doing. One hour at a time. I tend to get extremely anxious when thinking about the day or tomorrow, or next week. But I need to to get my belongings sorted for when I need to move.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
My comment was about marriages in general but in this situation when she made those vows she had no idea what it would be like living with a man who was ill and hadn't worked for seven years. Again, not his fault but you see my point.
Also agreed. But also not my point. You said barely older than 20. WAW here was not a 22 yo making promises she had no ability of knowing whether she could keep them or not. She was a little beyond the fairy tale age when she walked down the aisle. So once again the onus isn't on smilie. That was my point.
I would also like to add here, that after one year of us being together, she woke up yellow - jaundis. She was diagnosed with Autoimmune Hepatitis and she spnt 2 weeks in hospital and needed to go on steroids which made her gain weight and then an immunosuppressant. She was in tears worrying that I would dump her and not love her anymore because her body blew up and she gained weight in a few weeks (she had a tiny frame prior to that). For 7.5 years I stood by, not once thinking I didn't want to be with her - liver biopsies, bone scans and a termination due to the specialist telling her not to get pregnant as they didn't know if the baby would be affected or if my wife life would be at risk. She culdn't take the pill because of the liver issue and we used protection, but one still got through! Never any counselling and it has affected us to this day. She has never been able to get pregnant since - we have tried, but not that hard as she is more focused on career and never really said that she really wanted a child. Through all this, I loved her - I love her (still do really). This was years before we were married. I didn't need a vow to be faithful as it's in my values as a man. I would never and have never had eyes for anybody else in 19 years. I couldn't do that to anybody as it was done to me in my first ever relationship and I found out how it felt. And now I am finding out all over again.
Smilie unfortunately they are so many factors in these situations including hormones, brain chemicals, the happiness u-curve that it is hard to rationalize. The one thing I can tell you is that you will survive this and be happy again.
