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smilie Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Thornton
Who knows why she's not a good communicator, although I have my suspicions..

This was brought up in our marriage counselling sessions 9 years back - that she couldn't/wouldn't communicate.


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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Originally Posted by Smile
180's last time: become more independent, spend time at the gym, do my own stuff rather than always do stuff with her - can't remember the rest. i haven't kept up with them as 3.5 year after we got back together I had a severe vertigo attack that changed my life and the dizziness has never gone, which I why I cannot work. So once again I have fallen back to depend on her and allow her to be in control over everything, simple because I was too ill for about 5 years when it was really bad.

Hi Smile,

Communication takes work from both parties. Listening is challenging. When I asked about the issues she raised 10yrs ago in therapy, you cited your 180s but not her issues. Should we assume they are the same? If her original issues went unheard or unresolved, I could imagine her giving up on communication.

As for your 180s--1) being more independent, 2) being more fit, 3) finding ways to entertain yourself without her--you say you stopped these. It's easy to imagine intermittent vertigo making these more challenging. It's hard to imagine there weren't ways to do them if they were a priority, especially item #2 and #3.

I guess now her only obligation to you is to write a check. Are you reaching out to find support groups and/or services for your condition? Family? Neighbors? Churches? In my area, many will help, even if the help's not comprehensive. This must be an especially challenging time for you and I hope you're getting aid.

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Originally Posted by CWarrior
Communication takes work from both parties. Listening is challenging. When I asked about the issues she raised 10yrs ago in therapy, you cited your 180s but not her issues. Should we assume they are the same? If her original issues went unheard or unresolved, I could imagine her giving up on communication.

Her issues from what I can remember were that she felt overwhelmed because I was out of work for a while and she came home each day to me having to be upbeat, as I was run down due to being our of work. (It was a recession and it took me 2 years to find work. I found an IT contract 2 months after she left. When I found work she continued to come and go for 7 months) She also had an issue with thinking I was seeing a girl at work as she had read an email that I sent and interpreted it as flirting - it wasn't and was just me being nice! I was an IT support guy and sent emails to loads of people. I've have never looked at another woman since we have been together. It was also mentioned that I didn't listen. The thing with this is that she never raised any issues to listen to, so that was confusing.

So basically, I think it was because she was overwhelmed as we were fighting for our house and creditors were chasing for money as I was out of work and she was the only person bringing in the income. Much like now, I suppose - although there are no creditors chasing and we are renting.

We have spoken about this over the past 7 years though and she has mentioned that it's fine. I don't like not bringing in an income and have had a fair few ideas to get something started from home on my own terms and for us to work on that together. She says that she was interested in doing that, but never did anything towards it and I was waiting for her to sort-of commit to it as some money would have been necessary to be spent to start with.

Perhaps she saw this as me not doing what I was saying I wanted to do? I don't know.

I'm explaining this as it appears that I am a lazy git, but I'm really not and this Vestibular Migraine condition is awful to live with, with constant dizziness, chronic fatigue, eye and ear issues, etc.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
As for your 180s--1) being more independent, 2) being more fit, 3) finding ways to entertain yourself without her--you say you stopped these. It's easy to imagine intermittent vertigo making these more challenging. It's hard to imagine there weren't ways to do them if they were a priority, especially item #2 and #3.

Until my initial vertigo attack I was doing ok. I was more independent and I worked at my fitness levels at the gym. My dizziness isn't intermittent though and when I had that violent vertigo attack it was hard. It was hard to get around and just function for the first 3 years or so, so of course I fell into becoming dependent on my wife again. What else could I do? It was as much as I could do to get through each day. Still to this day, it's a similar story, but I have always kept my fitness levels up as much as I can.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
I guess now her only obligation to you is to write a check.

And this is so sad, isn't it? Makes me feel useless.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Are you reaching out to find support groups and/or services for your condition? Family? Neighbors? Churches? In my area, many will help, even if the help's not comprehensive. This must be an especially challenging time for you and I hope you're getting aid.

There aren't any support groups, except a couple online which I gave up on as it was all about people wanting to take pills and I couldn't stare at a computer screen all the time because of my eyes. I have no family and neighbours that I reached out to don't want to know. Absolutely nobody has come to see if I'm OK. Even the doctors don't want to know or understand - a common theme that I have had for 7 years. Yes it is challenging and this stress makes it even more so as it makes symptoms much worse.

Well after typing this I feel like I'm a lazy SoB that won't work and has relied on his wife (without discussion) to bring in the money. Although factually this is the case, this isn't how discussion have been and I'm really not lazy. I would do anything to be able to work and to bring in an income, I truly would, and it is so upsetting to think that having this condition that I can't control and didn't asked for, is the one thing that has ruined my marriage, just because of money.

My wife knew that I was conscious of this and I have always suggested starting up different forms of income that we could do together in spare time and I could work on during the day. She said that she was up for it but when it came to doing anything with the ideas, she never committed. So I was always waiting for her to want to work together, which never happened. I should have started alone perhaps, in hindsight.

Last edited by smilie; 06/24/21 05:28 AM.

M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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After replying to CWarrior, I realise that it would appear to be all my fault that this has happened again. I have not brought in an income due to this dreaded condition and I am probably less of the man that I was because of it.

No wonder she left. Found somebody who's not ill and who has an income or in financially stable. It doesn't change the fact that she wouldn't help to build up an alternative income stream (and I would have liked and was waiting for that support), but I take full responsibility for her leaving.

I just wish she would have said something in the 7 years that I have had this condition and certainly when she was thinking of leaving. Rather than acting as if everything is fine, telling me everything is fine and telling me that she loved me right up until the day before she left.

So I give up? My illness isn't going to suddenly go away, so why would she come back to useless me?

It's my fault, period. I've lost my wife and gave her cause to leave me for another, more suitable man. I get it and I will have to live with that for the rest of my life.


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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I have been reading Sandi's story and "Was2Sad"'s response.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1119385#Post1119385

I can't help feeling that this is what my wife was/is thinking and the battle she is going through. Reading this makes me feel physically sick, as if I am somehow getting a glimpse into my wife's head, thoughts and her new life.

The only difference at this stage is that my wife has admitted a PA. I still can't fully understand why H's don't ever seem to be given any opportunity to address the issues in the M. Nothing is ever said, brought up or mentioned. Also I am finding that it is mainly women that exhibit this type of behaviour - is this correct?


M(55), W(45)
BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21)
Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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Smilie,

You are still trying to process / understand your WW's mindset. - We have all done it, so we all understand how you are feeling.

I know it doesnt make it any easier, but trust me when i say that its pointless.

You are sitting there, trying to analyse this with a logical outlook ( although your emotions will be in full swing as well ) and it really is pointless.

Reading old threads may help you understand the mindset, but you can get consumed by it and read posts that give you a false hope.. Your WW is running on emotion, so there is nothing you can do - apart from work on you.

You also need to be careful ( we have seen it here time and time again ) not to cherry pick the responses that people did post as positive.. ie x did this and y did this and their wives came back. For the most part, assuming what x and y did will work in your sitch is futile.

Focus on you and what you can control.


Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
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Originally Posted by smilie
After replying to CWarrior, I realise that it would appear to be all my fault that this has happened again. I have not brought in an income due to this dreaded condition and I am probably less of the man that I was because of it.

No wonder she left. Found somebody who's not ill and who has an income or in financially stable. It doesn't change the fact that she wouldn't help to build up an alternative income stream (and I would have liked and was waiting for that support), but I take full responsibility for her leaving.

I just wish she would have said something in the 7 years that I have had this condition and certainly when she was thinking of leaving. Rather than acting as if everything is fine, telling me everything is fine and telling me that she loved me right up until the day before she left.

So I give up? My illness isn't going to suddenly go away, so why would she come back to useless me?

It's my fault, period. I've lost my wife and gave her cause to leave me for another, more suitable man. I get it and I will have to live with that for the rest of my life.


smilie, again, she took vows: for better or worse, in sickness and health, til death do us part.

Remember, you cannot change someone. You cannot fix her. It sounds like she has had issues committing in relationships her whole life. I do not blame you for getting ill. Maybe you have some blame for being blind to her not being a person that can remain committed.


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Originally Posted by smilie
I still can't fully understand why H's don't ever seem to be given any opportunity to address the issues in the M.

This is actually false. You were probably given warnings but not the ones you were look for at the night. A man wants to be beaten over the head with a baseball bat. I rarely happens that way.
Originally Posted by smilie
Nothing is ever said, brought up or mentioned.

Again I would bet money it was mentioned.
Originally Posted by smilie
Also I am finding that it is mainly women that exhibit this type of behavior - is this correct?

Oh boy Smile I think you are really going to regret saying that lol.

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Originally Posted by SteveLW
smilie, again, she took vows: for better or worse, in sickness and health, til death do us part.


It amazes me that that people actually believe that a statement made often in your early 20s is going to supersede millions of years of evolution.

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Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by SteveLW
smilie, again, she took vows: for better or worse, in sickness and health, til death do us part.


It amazes me that that people actually believe that a statement made often in your early 20s is going to supersede millions of years of evolution.


LH I think more the point is vows were made therefore commitment was promised and reliable trustworthy people keep their promises. Evolution means eff all if we use our higher selves. We have these big beautiful brains for a reason. All humans are capable of using their mind to over come instinct. Including but not limited to monogamy in perpetuity. If this weren't so we might as well all being living in caves again. similie's W also wasn't some naïve girl who was barely more than a child when she walked down the aisle. I have about a million thoughts on why this marriage didn't/isn't working. The archaic nature of matrimony isn't one of them.


Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by smilie
Also I am finding that it is mainly women that exhibit this type of behavior - is this correct?

Oh boy Smilie I think you are really going to regret saying that lol.
I'll be nice he's new around here. Buddy no. No this is not something mainly women exhibit. Literally anyone can coast along in stagnant and painful MR and do what the LBS feels like is up and leaving. But as a lot of people told you it's far more common in women for things to get to this point like this. Because they say what they want and need over and over again on deaf ears and then give up. I was a WW in my first marriage. exH was crappy person there wasn't much going to fix that unless he could see that himself. But I asked him for bare, bare minimum things to keep me all in. To make me feel like I wasn't having to choose between the lesser of two evil. Him with a roof over my head or no him with no roof over the head of myself or our daughter. He never heard me. You know when he heard me? Not when I cheated. Not when he begged me not to leave him for AP, even though that was never the plan. Not when I gave up and finally left. Not when I started dating again. Nope. Not even when things started to get sort of serious with my now H and I told my exH speak now or forever hold your piece because this is the absolute end of the train. He finally heard me about 2 months after my current H and I signed a lease and moved in together. I had stopped asking him for what I wanted and needed more than 3.5 years before that.

My current H actually didn't say anything before the A and BD. But I could tell he was struggling with himself and me and our MR for about a year before the A and BD. I had asked him repeatedly what was going on. I begged him to tell me what was going on. I begged to go to counseling or a M retreat. Something anything. He would say he was tired or stressed, and then he'd put on a happy face and act like nothing had happened. My depression took a huge toll on him and our MR. My independence took a toll because he liked feeling needed. His inability to deal with negative emotions or communicate effectively was crushing us, but at the time he saw that as my fault.

If I wasn't negative he'd be happy. If I would just stop expecting things of him he would be happy. If I would be less intelligent he wouldn't feel bad about himself. If I would, I would, I would. And trust me I needed to change a lot of things first and foremost getting mentally healthy and physically healthier. But until we got into some knock down drag out fights during the A (because he never wanted to fight, because at the time he felt fighting makes him feel the not happy feelings) he hadn't realized that I was never meeting his expectations because they were either unspoken or unreasonable. And that he was never meeting my expectations because he was either ignoring the request entirely or thought I was asking too much when I was asking for the bare minimum because he didn't want to give it to me out of resentment. And when he'd act like a petulant child I would just take on more and more and more responsibility in the household, in the MR, in parenting at work. Whatever I needed to do to get what I needed whether it was making meals, hauling the kids or more money for the house. Which I then resented him for. And being stretched thing drove me into a deeper depression. Which then made him resent me even more. Until we were in a resentment spiral that was sukking our M down the drain.

I say all this because I've read through a ton of what you said. And I'm going to be honest. There are a lot of MRs that have a disabled partner. A lot where that partner was a huge contributor in the household and then became homebound for the most part. A lot of those MRs work. I think your relationship falling apart has a lot less to to do with a changed dynamic than you think it does. If this isn't what W signed up for she wouldn't bowed out a while ago. 7 years is a long time to hang on to a MR out of pity. I doubt W is perfect and you're a disaster. She clearly has issues of her own. But if I had to guess what your biggest part in the demise of this MR was it's your depression. Dude, you are very clearly depressed. And not because of the BD and W. I can see it in every line. Whether you save this MR or not, you really need to be worrying about how to heal you. And I really think you should discuss depression with your doctors and a psychologist.

Which brings me to my last point that everyone is trying to tell you. Trying to mindread why your WAW walked is a waste of time and energy. We all do it. I get it. So you will be hearing this a lot. Like a lot, a lot. But you really do need to focus on you right now. The L thing is great. Reading some old threads to feel like you're getting some kind of handle on what's happening here. Also good. But I really need you to do some serious assessing and let's fix things that are fixable. Depression even chronic depression is treatable. But you can't get to those fitness goals of yours if you're not mentally healthy enough to even start. Worry about you first and foremost.

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