Man I really feel for you because I think you’re a good dude who came down with an unfortunate illness.
Not sure that the wife would agree that I'm a 'good dude', but yes this is a really unfortunate illness. I have always said that I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
I could still set up an business though, on my terms and I shall. I am starting to draft this out over the next few days - hopefully it will take my mind of this stuff. I don't have to wait for my wife to come along for the journey now. I don't need to seek approval - possibly something I was waiting for, eh? I need to learn some new coding skills as I can't pay anybody to help. I have a couple of people lined up from a few weeks before my wife left, that would help market it for me by word-of-mouth and to social media platforms. Just need to get on with it.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
I'm 4 weeks in to my wife walking out for a second time after 10 years. I have continued this thread from my previous one (hope I've linked it right?):
Sleeping is an issue and something that I need. Waking early in the morning with dramatic panic attacks are the worst and happens each morning. At the end of the thread (above) suggestions were being made about how to get some more sleep and how the importance of having a routine - which I agree with - and other options to promote sleep.
Does anybody have an idea of these panic attacks and how to cope with those, it may take a couple of weeks for the meds to kick in? Any suggestions most welcome.
To say that panic is uncomfortable is an understatement. I struggled with them for years.
The best thing to do is to know that the sensations, although intense cannot and will not hurt you. Feel the panic. Actively challenge it to do worse. Panic is fear of the fear. Fear of the sensations that are being caused cause more sensations. The terror of this feeling is what keeps it alive. "So what-ing" it and actively challenging it work.
In the opening pages of "Breakup to Makeup: How to get your ex back", by Lanie Stevens, a relationship book for women. I read and interesting paragraph:
This is and interesting viewpoint and has been written by a woman in a book about relationships about breaking up and how you are told:
"A 'real man' will sit down with you face-to-face and explain why he does not want to continue the relationship. A man who is a selfish narcissist and has no respect for you will disappear only to re-appear when he has satisfied his needs and selfish desires elsewhere and wants the comfort and safety of your relationship and love. In other words he is not interested in a long-term relationship and only seeks out comfort and love when he desires it and he does not concern himself with your needs. A man who will send you a text message to breakup is a coward and thinks very little of the relationship. The way he breaks it off will speak volumes about him as a person and a potential lifetime."
I take it that this will also apply the other way around also? Seeing as my wife left and lied about shy she was leaving - needed space - and that she told me it was over by text, if it does also apply to women (as WAW applies also to men, WAH) then it would make her a cowardly narcissist and would the rules of WAW still apply, I wonder?
Also the authors view is that she would not accept being cheated on and being treated with blatent disrespect. Which I can agree with and if it was anybody else that had treated me in such a way, then they would be history also. So why is the pull to my wife so strong? It was last time also. Why am I contemplating getting her back if I can? After all she has admitted cheating on me and has also left me before and probably cheated on me then also (even though she promised she hadn't). Am I a fool? A stupid fool that will keep lining up to be treated in this way over and over again?
At the moment I feel that I am not. I feel that this is not an acceptable way fro somebody to treat me and that it should be over. I think about filing for divorce as I said that I would and that I need to somehow pick my life back up and piece it back together again.
Then the next hour comes, or the next day and I'm right back where I was shaking in panic and wanting her back. Why would I keep doing this to myself when I categorically know that in all likelihood, if she did come back, that she would do it again sometime in the not too distant future.
If she had had an affair 10 years back and wasn't prepared to own up to it, then she was prepared to build the last 10 years on a lie and now that's she's left again - with the savings - is prepared to see me penniless and homeless. Is this the person that I want to be with for the rest of my life, I ask myself? Really? Where is my self-respect?
So if my brain knows all this then I dumb-founded why I would even contemplate wanting her to return, and yet this is exactly what is happening.
Talk about not being able to work her out, I can't even work myself out!
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
To say that panic is uncomfortable is an understatement. I struggled with them for years.
The best thing to do is to know that the sensations, although intense cannot and will not hurt you. Feel the panic. Actively challenge it to do worse. Panic is fear of the fear. Fear of the sensations that are being caused cause more sensations. The terror of this feeling is what keeps it alive. "So what-ing" it and actively challenging it work.
Thanks for replying, I have read your thread today and saw my situation embedded firmly inside it. It was an eye-opener of sorts and seeing a similar story from somebody else's perspective has helped my thinking of the situation and whether I would accept being treated in such a manner, especially a second time.
As far as the Panic goes, I should know that it's the fear, but for some reason fail to recognise it as such. When I feel it coming on, you're right, it makes it worse as I start to panic about it coming on. I just wished that they didn't have to exist in the first place. For some reason breathing doesn't seem to work, talking does. Taking talking as a pattern interrupt, anything should work. I was hoping to do a workout to interrupt them, but these tablets the Doctor put me on make me head feel weird until after midday.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
In the opening pages of "Breakup to Makeup: How to get your ex back", by Lanie Stevens, a relationship book for women. I read and interesting paragraph:
This is and interesting viewpoint and has been written by a woman in a book about relationships about breaking up and how you are told:
"A 'real man' will sit down with you face-to-face and explain why he does not want to continue the relationship. A man who is a selfish narcissist and has no respect for you will disappear only to re-appear when he has satisfied his needs and selfish desires elsewhere and wants the comfort and safety of your relationship and love. In other words he is not interested in a long-term relationship and only seeks out comfort and love when he desires it and he does not concern himself with your needs. A man who will send you a text message to breakup is a coward and thinks very little of the relationship. The way he breaks it off will speak volumes about him as a person and a potential lifetime."
I take it that this will also apply the other way around also? Seeing as my wife left and lied about shy she was leaving - needed space - and that she told me it was over by text, if it does also apply to women (as WAW applies also to men, WAH) then it would make her a cowardly narcissist and would the rules of WAW still apply, I wonder?
Also the authors view is that she would not accept being cheated on and being treated with blatent disrespect. Which I can agree with and if it was anybody else that had treated me in such a way, then they would be history also. So why is the pull to my wife so strong? It was last time also. Why am I contemplating getting her back if I can? After all she has admitted cheating on me and has also left me before and probably cheated on me then also (even though she promised she hadn't). Am I a fool? A stupid fool that will keep lining up to be treated in this way over and over again?
At the moment I feel that I am not. I feel that this is not an acceptable way fro somebody to treat me and that it should be over. I think about filing for divorce as I said that I would and that I need to somehow pick my life back up and piece it back together again.
Then the next hour comes, or the next day and I'm right back where I was shaking in panic and wanting her back. Why would I keep doing this to myself when I categorically know that in all likelihood, if she did come back, that she would do it again sometime in the not too distant future.
If she had had an affair 10 years back and wasn't prepared to own up to it, then she was prepared to build the last 10 years on a lie and now that's she's left again - with the savings - is prepared to see me penniless and homeless. Is this the person that I want to be with for the rest of my life, I ask myself? Really? Where is my self-respect?
So if my brain knows all this then I dumb-founded why I would even contemplate wanting her to return, and yet this is exactly what is happening.
Talk about not being able to work her out, I can't even work myself out!
The reason is that you are grasping to re-estabish a feeling of control over your life.
Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.
With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.
Logically you know you should divorce your W. She has cheated before and likely will cheat again. Emotionally you are not there because your brain still sees your W as essential to your survival. This will fade in time.
The reason is that you are grasping to re-estabish a feeling of control over your life.
Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.
With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.
Logically you know you should divorce your W. She has cheated before and likely will cheat again. Emotionally you are not there because your brain still sees your W as essential to your survival. This will fade in time.
Wow! So much to unravel there and it makes sense as the feeling of control that I presently have is close to zero. It's like sailing down the river in a boat without a rudder, that's for sure. I think in time, as you say, my emotions will catch-up with my logic and I think that my logic will provide the rudder to steer me in the first instance.
I absolutely know that I cannot go through this again as it almost killed me last time (gone for 9 months) and it has had the same shocking effect this time. That's got to be enough. Whatever she thinks I have done, nothing warrants what she has done towards me a second time and the way she has gone about it. The way of the WW seems to border on evil with how they treat you and at the very least, totally devoid of any and all emotion.
I have just read "The Lighthouse" post, about how the WS is in huge conflict and not really in a position to be in any relationship. That is my only consolation along with the fact that her new relationship probably won't work out either, and that maybe somewhere down the line, in weeks, months or even years, she will inevitably play out the same act again, but this time I won't be the subject of her 'unhappiness'.
So much more of what I have read about Persuers and Distancers have also been enlightening, in as much as her having sex for her own gratification rather than being a joint emotional bonding experience. This has always been like that for her and I've always felt that I was just the 'part' that she needed. I never mentioned that, and probably should have done at some stage over the past 19 years.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
From an outsider looking in, you appear to be codependent. Have you read up on codependency before?
Just curious what your childhood was like. Are you parents still together? Were you ever abandoned as a child?
You continually ask why you have such a strong pull towards someone who has repeatedly cheated on and left you, I think exploring your childhood might hold some clues for you.
Also, look into attachment styles. Clearly you have an anxious attachment style, that might be something to look into as well.
This is and interesting viewpoint and has been written by a woman in a book about relationships about breaking up and how you are told:
"A 'real man' will sit down with you face-to-face and explain why he does not want to continue the relationship. A man who is a selfish narcissist and has no respect for you will disappear only to re-appear when he has satisfied his needs and selfish desires elsewhere and wants the comfort and safety of your relationship and love. In other words he is not interested in a long-term relationship and only seeks out comfort and love when he desires it and he does not concern himself with your needs. A man who will send you a text message to breakup is a coward and thinks very little of the relationship. The way he breaks it off will speak volumes about him as a person and a potential lifetime."
I take it that this will also apply the other way around also?
Hi Smile,
I disagree with the author on almost every point. 1) I take offense whenever a woman tells me I must behave a certain way or I'm not a "real man". It's an attempt to shame us to follow gender stereotypes OR comparing us against some ideal man like women are sometimes compared to the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition. 2) Most would agree a face-to-face breakup is good form at the end of an LTR barring safety concerns or other special circumstances. However, I don't believe it's obligatory to explain all the reasons why. That makes more sense before ending the relationship. 3) While a narcissist may do those things, doing those things doesn't make you a narcissist as she implies. See the DSM-5 for how to determine if someone is a narcissist.
Originally Posted by smile
Seeing as my wife left and lied about shy she was leaving - needed space - and that she told me it was over by text, if it does also apply to women (as WAW applies also to men, WAH) then it would make her a cowardly narcissist and would the rules of WAW still apply, I wonder?
No, your XW and my XGF aren't narcissists just because they broke-up with us over text, lol.
If she had had an affair 10 years back and wasn't prepared to own up to it, then she was prepared to build the last 10 years on a lie
Smile, if I understand correctly, she said she didn't cheat 10yrs ago, and you believe she did cheat. We don't know the truth of that situation. We do know YOU were willing to build the last 10yrs on a lie.
Originally Posted by smile
Is this the person that I want to be with for the rest of my life, I ask myself?
Wherever you go, there you are. Why were you willing to do that? You might have had a good reason. You say it led to 10 good years for you before she gave up again and had an exit affair.
From an outsider looking in, you appear to be codependent. Have you read up on codependency before?
Just curious what your childhood was like. Are you parents still together? Were you ever abandoned as a child?
You continually ask why you have such a strong pull towards someone who has repeatedly cheated on and left you, I think exploring your childhood might hold some clues for you.
Also, look into attachment styles. Clearly you have an anxious attachment style, that might be something to look into as well.
Funny enough I have been reading about this a bit. No, both my parents are no longer alive and I did have an abusive childhood. No abandonment issues, but my father was a bully and my physical abuser and my mother was a psychological manipulator, using guilt to control.
So yes, there's probably a lot there. I have had counseling ages ago through my life for this and it's never been an issue and i've been ok in emotional relationships, until this.
Interestingly, my wife was abandoned by her father early on in her life. He went to work away when she was a young child (about 4 or 5) and only came home for a day at weekends. They were never allowed to go and visit him where he worked/lived as he didn't want anybody there. For over 40 years his wife, daughters and grandchildren where not allowed to go and see him. Of course, this is because he had another family....
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
