WAW Walks Away a Second Time

[smilie]

Hey Smilie,

I know that feeling. It is tough but it 100% gets better in time.

Your mind will eventually start thinking about something else. And then it is normally after being said to start feeling happy again. You can recognize these patterns and plan for them.

Just sit tight and get through the tough times.

Sounds like something to look forward to then - happiness! Thanks pal.

[Ready2Change]

This is hard. Very hard. I feel that I have had my insides ripped out today and I feel that I'm on a downward spiral into oblivion - somebody please tell me that this gets better at some stage....Does this actually get better? Because after 5 weeks it feels like it's getting a lot worse....

You most likely have lots of repressed emotions. We are emotional beings. Society tells us men not to show our emotions. For example, we learn at an early age not to cry. All those emotions are stuffed down inside. Crying is healthy and releases the emotions. Just find a safe time and place to do it. Some people's safe place is in the shower. IC might be an option. One important thing is to let the tears flow and COMPLETELY feel the pain. I always feel better after a good cry.

The "not safe" place right now is during any interaction with your W. During this phase, your W will be the trigger. Feelings of Sadness, Anger etc. Put your "game face" on and control your emotions during this time. Let them out after the interaction is over.

[smilie]

This is hard. Very hard. I feel that I have had my insides ripped out today and I feel that I'm on a downward spiral into oblivion - somebody please tell me that this gets better at some stage....Does this actually get better? Because after 5 weeks it feels like it's getting a lot worse....

You most likely have lots of repressed emotions. We are emotional beings. Society tells us men not to show our emotions. For example, we learn at an early age not to cry. All those emotions are stuffed down inside. Crying is healthy and releases the emotions. Just find a safe time and place to do it. Some people's safe place is in the shower. IC might be an option. One important thing is to let the tears flow and COMPLETELY feel the pain. I always feel better after a good cry.

I agree with this repressed emotions. The thing is, when my W initially left for some "space" (which I now know was just a ruse to get out of the house with agreement), I was crying for almost 2 days solid. As soon as I received the text message from her to say that she wasn't coming back and that she had feelings for somebody else (aka moved in with someone she was having an affair with), I haven't been able to cry at all - not for her. The only tear I've shed is for my sitch and that's only for a couple of seconds.

I had a chat with a Hypnotherapist (he was also a stage Hypnotist) this morning, and we were talking about my sitch and emotions and my extended issues of Vestibular Migraine. He is also of the thinking that this Neurological issue I have has been created as a result of the trauma from last time this happened 10 years back, as the symptomology came on 3.5 years afterwards, following me continually wondering if the W was going to run out again, if I would come home from work to her gone, if I was saying/doing the right things, etc, etc. He has known other people to have similar issues to mine and known other hypnotherapists to help them, but he hasn't worked with anybody with those issues before now. So it's an experience for him.

I went down this route first as he has a very good reputation and 3 sessions with him is less than the cost of 1.5 session with a relationship counselor, which would have cost in excess of £900 ($1,200+) for 9 sessions and she was talking more than 10. So if I can get some results working with him, then that would be a good start. He is solution-focused and was saying that counseling can keep you in the problem as a lot of methodologies and counselors just want to keep talking about the issue. We'll see, but if he can sort my bigger issue also, that would be great. He said that we should be able to get something done for when W comes to get her things, so it won't have such an emotional response. He has done this type of thing successfuly many times for others.

He says it how he sees it though and basically said that " ... she obviously doesn't give a sh!t about you ... ", I would have to agree, her behaviour has shown that she doesn't.

Which leads me on to....

I have also been reading about "The Dark Triad" and covert narcissism and quite frankly upon further investigations there are some astounding similarities to my relationship with my W and WAS/SAS. It's uncanny. Although there were no explosive arguments and she didn't start any arguments at all, she did partake in gaslighting and using a lot of information shared previously against me a lot of the time. Also she has taken everything from me and left me with nothing, not only financially, but as far as self-esteem and self-worth goes and the way she has done it has been meticulously planned, coordinated and executed and just 5 days after she set up a joint account for my pension money to go into that she arranged to cash in and emptied the savings account - all the same traits as the Dark Triad. Also there is an interesting article on "Monkey Branching" and how they keep two simultaneous relationships/affairs going and swing to the one that best suits them. And also what they may do and say to get you back - dropping breadcrumbs - It is exactly how my life has been, with the added element of her in control of everything. The things she said last time she wanted to come back are the same as the things that are typically said. It is spot on.

The "not safe" place right now is during any interaction with your W. During this phase, your W will be the trigger. Feelings of Sadness, Anger etc. Put your "game face" on and control your emotions during this time. Let them out after the interaction is over.

This is very unlikely to happen, apart from on the 10th when she has arranged to collect her stuff. There is still no word from her though, either directly or through my lawyer, so she seems to have slowed down the pace of her wanting a divorce, or she's playing a different game.

I shall have a workout shortly - GAL - see if I can stop these shakes somehow, they are there almost 100% of the time.

Sorry about the verbal diarrhoea, but what I found was very interesting and has given me a different take on things, whether rightly or wrongly, but worthy of consideration.

[Traveler]

I have also been reading about "The Dark Triad" and covert narcissism and quite frankly upon further investigations there are some astounding similarities to my relationship with my W and WAS/SAS. It's uncanny.

It's common to re-write, or re-frame our ex's as villains we're lucky to escape who will do poorly without us. Often, the WAS has already done this, and the LBS follows suit when their odds become long.

If your ex was a narcissist and everything was about her--why did she stick around for 3.5yrs while you didn't work, were too clingy, and didn't have a disability? Why did she stick around for 7.5yrs when you had a disability? My XGF's XH left after 25yrs of marriage the month my XGF was diagnosed. Either way, he was on the hook for $$$, but that freed him from the rest. That XH was never diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He was just selfish with baggage around caring for a dying parent years before.

I have a friend with an XH who is a narcissist. The week she won in court against him their son graduated. The son was proud of his hair. The XH shaved the son's head in retaliation. Narcissists lack empathy.

[wayfarer]

Just as a point of reference I had a step dad with the dark triad, while he wasn't ever officially diagnosed it was unmistakable. People who have that kind of deep disorder display all the symptoms they aren't particularly cherry picked. As my mother was dying he'd talk about the women he'd finally get to sleep with now since he hadn't been "getting any" while she was sick. He would bark at her about banking information she never gave him, probably for good reason, but the brain fog of a nearing death was clouding her mind in a way that even if she wanted to she didn't know it by heart any more. She had to tell him where he could find the info. That was an inconvenience so he'd bark at her more until she was in tears. The day my mother died he picked a huge fight with me because I apparently didn't show him the sympathy he thought he deserved. I watched my mother die after being up for 40 hours straight while he slept comfortably in his California king, but he felt he was entitled to my sympathy and I should've displayed it in the way he wanted. He did and said horrible things to everyone who could see through him and wouldn't bend to his manipulation. He was equally awful to everyone he did manage to manipulate to be under his thumb. I've read everything you've said about WW. She's not an ideal spouse, but she doesn't have the dark triad. I'm sorry.

LBSs at your point in the game are reaching for anything to make it make sense. I've seen the narcissist thing come with almost every single LBS on here at some point. It's very common to hit the anger stage of grief in all this and to villainize the WAS/WS and they aren't angels so I'm sure some of that scorn is well deserved. This stage almost always immediately follows the fun period of the LBS blaming themselves for everything. But relationships fall apart because 2 people fail. And people as whole tend to not be perfect all the time. Humans are fallible beings and can display really, really ugly traits and behaviors like narcissitic tendencies or manipulative behavior. But that doesn't make them a true narcissist. Try to keep in mind WW probably did some pretty crappy things but it's unlikely that she would've stuck with you so long when (and I'm sorry if this seems harsh but from the perspective of a narcissist) had little to offer to her. Narcissist only like to be with people that can elevate their status, provide something for them, and/or they can completely control. Given your situation. None of that was the case in your marriage. Be angry. You deserve that. But don't diagnose. It won't help you, her or make you feel better in the long run.

Also you need to be careful about where the blame lies on the self confidence and self worth thing. You allowing someone the power to make you feel bad about yourself is a you problem not a them problem. If you saw your self as a person of value she could call you horrible things and it would roll off your back, because you know who you are and what your worth is. Self worth is the responsibility of that person alone. So let's focus on that, not diagnosing WW. What can you do to remind you're self of who you are? What can you do for yourself to improve your physical health, your spiritual health and your emotional health? What kind of interests or hobbies or things like that have gone on the back burner for you that you could maybe take up again? Books left unread? Movies or shows unseen? Podcasts or audio books unlistened to? (which have nothing to do with marriage help, self help, or divorce support.)

[smilie]

CWarrior / Wayfarer:
Of course you're both right. You see it in me and yes, I am just trying to make sense of stuff in different ways. I was very interested in the behaviour similarities of WW and this type of personality. I have been looking back and questioning whether W does have empathy. For her job she sees people who's relations have died and are going through grief (probate lawyer), and she acts in certain ways towards them, says the things that you are supposed to say and do the things that you are supposed to do. In the 20 years that I have known her (19 together), she has never shed a tear, had a lump brought to her throat or felt sorry for anybody, that she has mentioned. At times also during our relationship, I've had to request that she stops treating me like a client - where she exhibits a different 'persona' in order to deal with a situation, remain detached from it if you will.

She also never sheds a tear if we have an argument and she never shed a tear the day her mother died. She goes quiet, goes inside of herself and locks it away in a box somewhere. I know this, I've seen it, I've lived it. This ability to emotionally detach is, I believe, a defence mechanism to protect herself from hurt. She speaks in a different, more formal way and is totally emotionless and only 'acts' in a way that another person would perceive her to be somebody who is indeed acting in a genuine compassionate way. But she is acting in that way. I have seen this many times over the years and I saw it shortly after we split and I needed to pick up the satnav. She was emotionless, cold, it was horrible to see her 'acting' in that way towards me (such has she did before 10 years previous). For somebody to be able to switch off all emotion is scary. It changes their whole persona, the way they look, the way they hold themselves and their eyes are just dark pools of nothingness. It literally sends shivers down my spine.

This is all I was trying to understand.

CWarrior:
The thing is I don't see my ex as a villain. She has done what she needed to do for her and she has chosen the way that she did that. I hate the way she has decided to treat me and that she has stolen the savings and hasn't been nice about anything. I also hate the fact that she says she wants a divorce, tells me to expect a letter and then I get nothing 3.5 weeks later, neither has my lawyer. It all feels like she is playing some kind of game and I'm trying desperately not to play it, especially in my head. Furthermore I don't want to follow her lead in the blame game, certainly not.


wayfarer:
As you say some people just do some crappy things and yes she has done that certainly. However, I don't feel anger, at all and I've already gone through the stage of blaming myself for it all, both at the beginning and a few days back. I fully understand that she thought that I had nothing to offer and it is frustrating that she knew that I was trying to get into a position to pull in an income and had it not been for this 'pandemic' that is exactly what would have happened mid last year. It was just unfortunate, bad timing, bad luck - another bad luck feather to stick in my cap that I seem to have had for my entire life.

I am not stupid and fully I know the part that I've played in this relationship. Yes there are things that I could have done better, things I could have tackled better and things that I should have done but didn't. I am not trying to use and 'but's' here to get myself out of responsibility, but being struck down with a condition that I cannot find a cure for that effects every single facet of your life is a struggle, both for me and for her. I have had this for 7 years exactly, she walked out. She was ill after a year of us being together for 7.5 years, I stood by and supported her. No, it's not a peeing contest of who could last the longest and stood by, but this was before we got married and I was committed to the relationship and committed to her. The part I have played in this relationship is giving up my life and my interests in order to spend more time with her. She had nothing to give up as she had no interests and the interests she tried to have since we have been together went nowhere and were discarded just as quickly as they came. We became each others lives and that was one big problem that we both need to work on. However, she probably won't see that seeing as she is under the 'spell' of her new guy, but I see it in me and it was not a good thing to do - to give up on me to devote my time to her.

About the self-confidence & worth, yep I know where that blame lies also. I know that I have given my power away, I know that I have let somebody else control every single area of my life from bank accounts and finances to where I go on the weekend. I've let that happen and she wanted to do those things, she even told me that.

I used to train regularly at the gym and in my home gym, so I've picked that up again. Spiritual: I have started meditating and the emotional side I have been speaking with a couple of friends and have some therapy sorted from next week that may help. I also have another couple of people to contact on this. I like to read books but can't for too long because wearing glasses makes my head feel strange, but if I can suss this Vestibular Migraine issue with the hypnotherapist that will be a bonus.

Interests and hobbies are getting there also, but I need to put more effort into those - martial arts weapons training that I started to pick up last year and I have re-started the coaching training that I did a couple of years back so that I can pick that up again for an income stream in the near future. I listen to podcasts all the time and I'm into interviews and personal development stuff, so do that anyway and I have done for years.

I have book shelves of unread books to read, a hypnotherapy course to study a Shadow Work course to get in to (Carl Jung stuff) and I have language courses in Spanish, French, Italian and Greek. I also have foraging to learn and a karaoke system to sing on - although I haven't felt much like singing recently and was going to pack it all away - perhaps I won't as it's a good stress reliever!

This is some of my GAL and I am actually started doing some of this stuff this week. Actually, I've once again realised how uncomfortable you can get a day or two after a weight workout! I also meet up with a small group of people each Sunday for a coffee and a chat for an hour or so

I appreciate your input though and realise that I am maybe trying to portion blame. I didn't think I was, but perhaps I was just telling myself I was innocently curious. I'll leave all that stuff until later then... work on me first. It is exceptionally difficult to stop looking into this stuff and learning though.

[wayfarer]

Quietly hiding inside yourself and not showing others emotion is a trauma response. It's actually very common. You never saw her cry because she didn't want you to see it. She's not a sociopath she has issues and learned behaviors she never broke from. Like most of us.

Also I worked in juvenile justice for a decade. I heard and saw horrible sh!t on a daily basis. The kind of stuff that gets CPS in the news. If you don't learn how to detach from your job it will consume you. This is also super normal.

WS/WAS aren't exactly known for for their reliability or follow through. She's not playing mind games. She's just genuinely not considering how it would affect you. Nor does she care. You are out of sight out of mind. And that hurts like h3ll. But that's what it is.

I don't think you're stupid. Nor did I call you stupid. I know you've been doing some self assessment here. But that's not the point. It isn't 100% your fault and it's not 100% hers either. That's the point.

Also she didn't leave you now mainly because you have nothing to offer. The point both CW and I we're trying to make is that if that were actually the case and if she was truly a narcissist she would've left a long time ago.

WAS/WS seem to have a common theme of picking up interests and dropping them quickly.

Situations like this seem to have the common theme of co-dependency in the relationship.

And last little tid-bit, and I don't know why I need to say this, but since I must I must, you are angry. You're clearly anger. It's ok to be angry it's part of the process. Be angry. Sit in it for a while. And then worry about you.

[smilie]

WS/WAS aren't exactly known for for their reliability or follow through. She's not playing mind games. She's just genuinely not considering how it would affect you. Nor does she care. You are out of sight out of mind. And that hurts like h3ll. But that's what it is.

I can't get my head around that. How can you live with somebody and have them part of your life for 19+ years and then not think about them at all, or care about what you are doing? That is cold and callous to me. I don't suppose I will ever know.

I don't think you're stupid. Nor did I call you stupid. I know you've been doing some self assessment here. But that's not the point. It isn't 100% your fault and it's not 100% hers either. That's the point.,

Oh no! I wasn't saying you were! Lol! Crossed wires. I was just stating that I wasn't stupid - or didn't see myself as stupid. I certainly wasn't pointing to you saying I was. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

Also she didn't leave you now mainly because you have nothing to offer. The point both CW and I we're trying to make is that if that were actually the case and if she was truly a narcissist she would've left a long time ago.

Oh I see. That makes sense.

WAS/WS seem to have a common theme of picking up interests and dropping them quickly.

Situations like this seem to have the common theme of co-dependency in the relationship.

That's familiar then, as this is what she has done and the co-dependency has developed certainly and more over time from my perspective as I've dropped more things and interests etc.

And last little tid-bit, and I don't know why I need to say this, but since I must I must, you are angry. You're clearly anger. It's ok to be angry it's part of the process. Be angry. Sit in it for a while. And then worry about you.

But I don't feel angry - not in the slightest. Perhaps it's bubbling up inside somewhere and will show itself when the time comes. Actually, I think that's what all this shaking is about maybe, anger held inside. It's stopped for the moment, first time today I'm not trembling.

Thank you for your insights. It's certainly challenging my thinking that's for sure. I'll go back to my analogy I used earlier about sitting at the Mad Hatter's tea party, it'll makes more sense that way!

[Traveler]

WS/WAS aren't exactly known for for their reliability or follow through. She's not playing mind games. She's just genuinely not considering how it would affect you. Nor does she care. You are out of sight out of mind. And that hurts like h3ll. But that's what it is.

I can't get my head around that. How can you live with somebody and have them part of your life for 19+ years and then not think about them at all, or care about what you are doing? That is cold and callous to me. I don't suppose I will ever know.

Hopefully not. Some of us have worn the WAS hat. If I’d left my XW after 10yrs a year earlier, I might’ve still cared, but instead I used that last bit of care to give her another year to change. By the time I left I’d given her all I could and it was time to focus on me and my kids. I was totally done 2 weeks before BD.

[Ready2Change]

But I don't feel angry - not in the slightest. Perhaps it's bubbling up inside somewhere and will show itself when the time comes. Actually, I think that's what all this shaking is about maybe, anger held inside. It's stopped for the moment, first time today I'm not trembling.

From the internet:

As an example, this may be the presentation of stages from a breakup or divorce:

Shock and denial: “She absolutely wouldn’t do this to me. She’ll realize she’s wrong and be back here tomorrow.”
Pain and guilt: “How could she do this to me? How selfish is she? How did I mess this up?”
Anger and bargaining: “If she’ll give me another chance, I’ll be a better boyfriend. I’ll dote on her and give her everything she asks.”
Depression: “I’ll never have another relationship. I’m doomed to fail everyone.”
The upward turn: “The end was hard, but there could be a place in the future where I could see myself in another relationship.”
Reconstruction and working through: “I need to evaluate that relationship and learn from my mistakes.”
Acceptance and hope: “I have a lot to offer another person. I just have to meet them.”

Theses to overlap as well.