Wolf, how are you doing figuring out coping techniques? Dawn and I had shared what works for us--some the same, some different. I'm sorry you're struggling just now. I'd take you out for a beer if you were near.
what about what your mom says to you?.....I said what about your mom?
Wolf, you still have some serious personal growth to do.
Indeed. Lots of arguing and excuse making in that session. Did you validate her feelings? It's her truth. Personally, I think you need to grow thicker skin.
I agree with what the others before me have said. You seem to be rather intent on being right and making your daughter out to be a liar so you can prove your XW is the bad guy. As I know I have said before, as have others, you CANNOT control what your wife does or says, so focus on what you are doing and saying and how you can interact with your daughter. You've lamented not being able to see her over and over and when you finally did get to see her, albeit in a therapy session, you spent that time saying "yeah but" rather than listening and validating HER feelings.
Look, I'm not defending your XW here, because I don't think she's mother of the year either, just based on what you say, but you HAVE to know that calling your daughter a rat is NOT the way to smooth things over. And, you mentioned you have texts and recordings of interactions between mother and daughter....WHY? Not your circus, not your monkeys.
Let me say something about the situation with your gf as well. As I recall, your girlfriend is a good bit younger than you and you started dating and she got pregnant fairly quickly. I also seem to recall that you all didn't have the steadiest of relationships and that you were going to dump her when she first found out she was pregnant, but decided to stay. Your daughter is telling you, IN THERAPY, which SHOULD be a safe place to talk things out, that she feels like your gf was shoved down her throat and you explain it to us as she lied. Wolf, you have to stop trying to control everyone else's thoughts, feelings, emotions. While you may not think you pushed a relationship with your gf on your kids, your daughter clearly does see it that way and that is how she feels so you have to validate that rather than accusing her of being a liar about it.
You have a long row to hoe, especially if you are going to keep fighting to be right rather than fighting to do the real work that building bridges with your daughter will take.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
Wolf…echoing what others have said. A cautionary tale for you. My SD 21 had a similar interaction with my XH. After not talking to him for over a year, she decided to sit down with him for a meeting. I suggested to him prior to this meeting that he do nothing but listen and validate her experience of their relationship as I knew that it would take about five minutes for him to get defensive and start arguing with her that his view is the accurate one. He didn’t listen. Instead, he focused on defending himself and tried to come up with examples that, to him, proved she was wrong. She walked away from that meeting convinced that she was 100% right about him and has since cut him out of her life. Whether or not that changes in the future, I have no idea but if he wants it to, he is going to have to work really, really hard to make it happen. Knowing him the way I do and watching how his relationship with his dad has played out, I think that is highly unlikely to happen. If you want a relationship with your daughter, you are going to have to stop trying to defend yourself and start listening and validating…whether you agree with her or not. The “truth” is highly subjective and doesn’t actually matter in situations like this. Perception is everything. The sooner you understand this, the better. (((HUGS)))
Wolfman, I hope you both feel the <3 towards you here, and our concern that this session didn't show D that Wolfman was ready to reconcile after a couple of months apart.
How can we help you get into a better place?
Keep posting, mate. The act of writing what's happening often helps me to process events.
What is going on between you and your ex is a completely separate issue from your r with your daughter. Your daughter just needs one of you to be the bigger person; to be the adult in the room.
One-upping our ex spouses is not the way to do this. (Parental alienation is something to discuss with the therapist, but again, is a separate issue from your r with your daughter). She just needs someone to be the adult in the room, be her parent. This means not saying ANYTHING negative to her against her mother. You need to work on being the safe place where she can express all her feelings about all that went wrong in her life. That means listening. It’s hard to do. But that is the start to building a r with her. Scoring points against your ex will have d running the other way to the adult who is the bigger person in the room.
You and your ex both have very very messy lawns. To be honest, from an outsider looking in, I think your lawn is messier as you have introduced the gf and the baby all so fast that d has expressed this is all being crammed down her throat. She wants space from it all.
If you can’t listen to her I would back off in trying to see her, for a bit. Each interaction we have with people either makes things a little better or a little worse. Do you think your interaction with your d made things better or worse from her vantage point?
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
You need to work on being the safe place where she can express all her feelings about all that went wrong in her life. That means listening. It�s hard to do.
This is your most important job as a parent- Validating your child's feelings. Even if they are expressing them about YOU.
Believe me I know that urge and feeling to defend my POV, but I can catch myself and shut the F up and start listening to my kids POV, and understand how they are feeling.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Regarding Ready to Change�s comment on validating our kid�s feelings even when it�s about us, this takes tremendous strength. I am far from perfect in this area.
Recently my older son expressed some deep rooted pain over our divorce. I made the very grave mistake of defending myself. I made it about ME and tried to one up my ex/blame him. My son verbally slapped me and told me he just needed me to validate him (HIS words!!!) and told me this was about him and his feelings.
I am thankful that he is strong enough to communicate his needs. I had to do a BIG mea culpa for making it about me. After doing a deep dive into my emotions I realize I did it because of my pain in seeing him in pain. And my tremendous anger at my ex for having a MLC, marrying his affair partner in secret within MONTHS (telling my kids not to tell me) and then divorcing his affair partner in 5 months and keeping that a secret from me. The two are separate issues.
Kudos to your d for expressing her pain. That takes courage. Your r with your d will improve if you can just validate her pain. See a therapist, talk to friends or gripe here about your own grievances.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
