Been here before. MLC? WAS? Not sure

[Michka]

I have a date… it’s Jan 2022.

That makes it a year.

What should I do or say when he brings up r talk or suggests he wants to reconcile?

[SteveLW]

I tried DB principals... validating, etc not always successfully. But it did seem to have a positive effect.


So my question is, what do I do now? Is it simply a matter of focusing on detachment again? What do I say or do when he brings up reconciling? I am pretty sure he will based on his behaviour of the last few months.

You answered your own question:

I tried DB principals... validating, etc not always successfully. But it did seem to have a positive effect.


So my question is, what do I do now? Is it simply a matter of focusing on detachment again? What do I say or do when he brings up reconciling? I am pretty sure he will based on his behaviour of the last few months.

As far as if he brings up reconciliation, you have what YOU require for that to happen.

Him: I am considering reconciliation.
You: In that case I have a list of requirements.
Him: Requirements?
You: Yes, things that will be necessary in order for me to be open to reconciling.
Him: What are they?
You: 1) Full transparency. We have each other's passwords to all social media, cellphones, email addresses, etc.
2) You get into IC and work through whatever issues are causing you to want out.
3) After 2 months, we also start MC together.
4) If you agree to these we are full in, no one week "I think I want to R" and then the next "I don't think it will work". If we do this we are all in, and if you start to hedge I pull the plug and we moved towards separation and D.

Michka, he is banking on you NOT wanting a D. When he realizes that you now have requirements or YOU will walk away it will really make him decide whether or not he wants to R or not. If he is using R to keep you as Plan B, it will become immediately apparent (he won't agree to the requirements). If he is serious about Ring he will be willing to move mountains to do so.

[SteveLW]

I have a date… it’s Jan 2022.

That makes it a year.

GREAT! Now, you have to stick to this. Lots of LBSs pick a date, then hedge as the time grows closer. Fear of separation and/or D will always work against you.

[ovrrnbw]

I tried DB principals... validating, etc not always successfully. But it did seem to have a positive effect.


So my question is, what do I do now? Is it simply a matter of focusing on detachment again? What do I say or do when he brings up reconciling? I am pretty sure he will based on his behaviour of the last few months.

You answered your own question:

I tried DB principals... validating, etc not always successfully. But it did seem to have a positive effect.


So my question is, what do I do now? Is it simply a matter of focusing on detachment again? What do I say or do when he brings up reconciling? I am pretty sure he will based on his behaviour of the last few months.

As far as if he brings up reconciliation, you have what YOU require for that to happen.

Him: I am considering reconciliation.
You: In that case I have a list of requirements.
Him: Requirements?
You: Yes, things that will be necessary in order for me to be open to reconciling.
Him: What are they?
You: 1) Full transparency. We have each other's passwords to all social media, cellphones, email addresses, etc.
2) You get into IC and work through whatever issues are causing you to want out.
3) After 2 months, we also start MC together.
4) If you agree to these we are full in, no one week "I think I want to R" and then the next "I don't think it will work". If we do this we are all in, and if you start to hedge I pull the plug and we moved towards separation and D.

Michka, he is banking on you NOT wanting a D. When he realizes that you now have requirements or YOU will walk away it will really make him decide whether or not he wants to R or not. If he is using R to keep you as Plan B, it will become immediately apparent (he won't agree to the requirements). If he is serious about Ring he will be willing to move mountains to do so.

Steve,

I just wanted to compare your take on reconciliation to my own and offer a slightly different, but still similar perspective.

I got to the point in my situation where I was too tired of everything to try to bother and track and look through phones and social media. I knew what it would feel like if there was cheating and I knew what it was like if there wasn't. I would rephrase it like "I need your commitment to ensuring that I won't feel distrust". It's going to take an effort to rebuild and if you don't have that energy then I will continue on my path.

[SteveLW]

I tried DB principals... validating, etc not always successfully. But it did seem to have a positive effect.


So my question is, what do I do now? Is it simply a matter of focusing on detachment again? What do I say or do when he brings up reconciling? I am pretty sure he will based on his behaviour of the last few months.

You answered your own question:

I tried DB principals... validating, etc not always successfully. But it did seem to have a positive effect.


So my question is, what do I do now? Is it simply a matter of focusing on detachment again? What do I say or do when he brings up reconciling? I am pretty sure he will based on his behaviour of the last few months.

As far as if he brings up reconciliation, you have what YOU require for that to happen.

Him: I am considering reconciliation.
You: In that case I have a list of requirements.
Him: Requirements?
You: Yes, things that will be necessary in order for me to be open to reconciling.
Him: What are they?
You: 1) Full transparency. We have each other's passwords to all social media, cellphones, email addresses, etc.
2) You get into IC and work through whatever issues are causing you to want out.
3) After 2 months, we also start MC together.
4) If you agree to these we are full in, no one week "I think I want to R" and then the next "I don't think it will work". If we do this we are all in, and if you start to hedge I pull the plug and we moved towards separation and D.

Michka, he is banking on you NOT wanting a D. When he realizes that you now have requirements or YOU will walk away it will really make him decide whether or not he wants to R or not. If he is using R to keep you as Plan B, it will become immediately apparent (he won't agree to the requirements). If he is serious about Ring he will be willing to move mountains to do so.

Steve,

I just wanted to compare your take on reconciliation to my own and offer a slightly different, but still similar perspective.

I got to the point in my situation where I was too tired of everything to try to bother and track and look through phones and social media. I knew what it would feel like if there was cheating and I knew what it was like if there wasn't. I would rephrase it like "I need your commitment to ensuring that I won't feel distrust". It's going to take an effort to rebuild and if you don't have that energy then I will continue on my path.

Great point! And I think we all get there. I did the same in my reconciliation. However, initially that full transparency is a must to rebuilding that trust.

Remember, about a year and a half after my reconciliation I did check her email and found a guy was emailing her. For her part, she wasn't really engaging back with him. But he was smothering her with compliments. etc. I told her at the time exactly what you just state: I didn't have the energy nor the desire to have to keep tabs on her. And that I had no desire to remain with someone that I couldn't trust. So she could choose me or getting compliments from strangers on the internet. She chose the former and since that time (nearly 2 years later) she has fallen over herself to make sure I can trust her.

Great point, ovr.

[Michka]

Yeah I think I really need to detach better. I was for a short time I think but when he started to talk of reconciling and missing me. I think I should have waited longer perhaps? I dont know. The DB coach was recommending I turn towards him... to be "softer". I tried that but it seems it was a temporary fix on reflection.

I think in terms of standing I need to stand back a bit further. Space is something he hasn't had enough of. I feel he needs to work out his own issues before we can work on us.

I have read through your journey, you are inspiring to say the least WF!

[Michka]

Steve... the date is somewhat final.... I have a standing appointment with my lawyer to meet again to initiate divorce proceedings in Jan unless he hears otherwise.

We will see, right now he is in one of his "I hate the world and it's all your fault". I have informed him I will not be engaging with him. He has been temp checking with me but unless its to do with the kids or important I am not responding.

I feel that while I am not lovingly detaching from him, nor can I afford to engage with him in useless arguments.

It's amazing that a grown, intelligent man can be so bloody stupid. Is this common of WAS's?

[SteveLW]

Yeah I think I really need to detach better. I was for a short time I think but when he started to talk of reconciling and missing me. I think I should have waited longer perhaps? I dont know. The DB coach was recommending I turn towards him... to be "softer". I tried that but it seems it was a temporary fix on reflection.

I think in terms of standing I need to stand back a bit further. Space is something he hasn't had enough of. I feel he needs to work out his own issues before we can work on us.

I have read through your journey, you are inspiring to say the least WF!

Detachment is a process....not a destination. Just keep working at it. One thing that helped me so much was to study "self-differentiation in marriage". Differentiation is very similar to what we talk about here as being lovingly detached. At its root level it is about being happy and fulfilled regardless of what those around you are saying and doing. It is a very good place to be in life!

Being softer doesn't mean you stop DBing! So many LBSs think that DBing and then being available or there for your WAS are at odds. They are not. In my own sitch even though I was starting to really hit my stride on DBing principles, I still was open to helping her. I tell the story all the time of when she came to me wanting help with her resume and wanted to buy interviewing books. (Remember, she wanted to get a job, get an apartment and get a D!) I told her I was willing to help, and that she could buy whatever she wanted that she thought she needed. Was that soft towards her? You betcha. But it was also a 180 for me, and it was being lovingly detached. I approached it as if I was helping a friend with their job search.

Steve... the date is somewhat final.... I have a standing appointment with my lawyer to meet again to initiate divorce proceedings in Jan unless he hears otherwise.

We will see, right now he is in one of his "I hate the world and it's all your fault". I have informed him I will not be engaging with him. He has been temp checking with me but unless its to do with the kids or important I am not responding.

I feel that while I am not lovingly detaching from him, nor can I afford to engage with him in useless arguments.

It's amazing that a grown, intelligent man can be so bloody stupid. Is this common of WAS's?

WASs, and WSs in particular run on pure emotion. Logic and intelligence go out the window in favor of feeling and want. In my sitch my W, even though we have a child, thought we could get a quicky, lawyerless $400 online D. When I told her that was not possible in our state with a child involved, she didn't believe me. Snooping later I saw she had looked up D procedures in our state. And it was a long, drawn out process when kids were involved. Her delusional quick and easy D bubble was burst. She never really brought up D after that. She still wanted out but the process took too much brain power now that she knew the quick route was not an option. This is typical WAS/WS behavior! They are like electricity, always looking for the path of least resistance!

[Michka]

Steve i find the walking down the right tight rope for me really hard... I know my relationship with H has in the past really benefitted from a tough love approach. Thats what happened when we first BD which was actually initiated by me. He still speaks of how "amazing" i was because I took over all our affairs and just did what I thought was best for me and the children at the time. It seemed that bought him out of his fog real quick and he was more then willing to do reconcile, do IC and MC and anything else I wanted...

This time has been different and I have tried the more softly softly approach as encouraged by my DB coach and my IC which I was seeing earlier, it seems to have worked to a point. We will see how it goes from here.

I have read about self-differentiation in marriage and that was what prompted me to start the reno. Its something I have always wanted to do and really excites me. I have new furniture coming in, new flooring and a whole heap of painting to do. But I cant wait as its going to really look good once completed and then I can entertain as I wish come the summer.
Im quite the cook and cant wait to get the BBQ out and chill by the pool with family and friends.

[SteveLW]

Steve i find the walking down the right tight rope for me really hard... I know my relationship with H has in the past really benefitted from a tough love approach. Thats what happened when we first BD which was actually initiated by me. He still speaks of how "amazing" i was because I took over all our affairs and just did what I thought was best for me and the children at the time. It seemed that bought him out of his fog real quick and he was more then willing to do reconcile, do IC and MC and anything else I wanted...

This time has been different and I have tried the more softly softly approach as encouraged by my DB coach and my IC which I was seeing earlier, it seems to have worked to a point. We will see how it goes from here.

I have read about self-differentiation in marriage and that was what prompted me to start the reno. Its something I have always wanted to do and really excites me. I have new furniture coming in, new flooring and a whole heap of painting to do. But I cant wait as its going to really look good once completed and then I can entertain as I wish come the summer.
Im quite the cook and cant wait to get the BBQ out and chill by the pool with family and friends.

Good stuff. Just wanted to make sure you knew that DBing and being soft are compatible, not contradictory. You can be soft AND DB well. I think I did that fairly well in my own sitch. I was very soft, but I still followed sandi's rules pretty well and got better as our sitch progressed.