WAW Hired a Divorce Coach (Cont9.)

[MLCxH]

MLC, I will probably ignore disagreements in the future because I do not think LBSs get much out of other posters arguing on their threads. But since I got called out specifically:

You may have missed it a few months back when Scott said he had a weakness when it came to women. As in always having to have one. His point was that his weakness in this regard was more than the usual "man needs woman" "evolution" thing you mentioned. That is what I was referring to. And no one ever said he should never date again. Just that he shouldn't be dating when he isn't ready to be D'd, as evidenced by telling his STBXW that he still doesn't want a D.

Steve, the intent here was not to argue. It was to an attempt to temper the 2x4 by trying to be more empathetic to Scott. I feel disagreements do benefit the LBS because it allows them to see both sides and help decide what advice suits their situation better. I hope you will not ignore disagreements. Case in point, I did not know Scott had admitted to a weakness and that you were referring to this specifically. I clearly misinterpreted the context of your comment and your response helped clarify this. In this case, I do agree with your suggestion to Scott to consider exploring it further in IC

Are we still pretending that 'true unattached love' is a real thing?

I am not pretending anything. We aren't cattle. We can love someone and not be so attached to them that we want to stop breathing if they leave us (read the "You will not die" sticky thread!) As far as the word "true", that is an overloaded term that means different things to different people.

You are taking the quote too literally here. The point is none of us would likely be here if our relationships had true and unattached love. We may be more civilized than cattle, but at some level we are still creatures driven by hormonal, physical, social and emotional needs. Love does not happen between romantic partners without at least some of these needs being met. Every person values different needs differently and hence the level of hurt and anger at some of these needs not being met will vary from person to person. The advice to reduce attachment is sound but I feel we need to be empathetic to those who have a tough time detaching completely. Not an argument, just my opinion Cheers!

Are we still pretending that 'true unattached love' is a real thing?

I think it's a real thing just not to anyone on these boards.

Maybe I am jaded but I don't believe this is true in romantic relationships. There are those that are closer to true love relative to others, but at some level romantic love is need based and is only sustained if mutual needs are met regularly.

[OnlyBent]

Scott,

Back when I first started posting, there was a lot of support from "newbie to newbie". I think that was extremely helpful.

I noticed that you only post to your thread. Same thing with Smilie, Most of his posts are on his thread. I might suggest that you read his threads ,if you haven't already, and offer some support. He will most likely reciprocate.

It is definitely a worthwhile endeavor. You get to think about things and use logic to address the other persons sitch. Your emotions are not controlling your response and when similar things come up in your own life, you already know a good choice to help make your decision easier.

This is such a great point R2C. Not only will you be paying it forward, but also you will attract more posters to your thread, creating a more diverse set of opinions.

[SteveLW]

Scott,

Back when I first started posting, there was a lot of support from "newbie to newbie". I think that was extremely helpful.

I noticed that you only post to your thread. Same thing with Smilie, Most of his posts are on his thread. I might suggest that you read his threads ,if you haven't already, and offer some support. He will most likely reciprocate.

It is definitely a worthwhile endeavor. You get to think about things and use logic to address the other persons sitch. Your emotions are not controlling your response and when similar things come up in your own life, you already know a good choice to help make your decision easier.

Someone should put this into R2C's quote thread. I would do it but I can't stay long.

[SteveLW]

Maybe I am jaded

Not "maybe". You are jaded. I've noticed this in your responses since you returned.

[ScottB]

From a post i read based on R2C's advise. Its an old one but really good:

Bo, I have been around a long time. It sounds like there may be some sort of crisis going on with your wife.

Here's the thing..you have to let go of who your wife was, because if you don't, you will keep feeling as you do. The sooner you accept that this is who she is right now, the better you can move forward. Now, dont get me wrong. It is hard. But know this...what you had was real. Dont allow her to rewrite history. You know your truth.

You need to go through the steps of grief because this is a death of what your marriage was. That doesnt mean there cant be a new marriage if that is what is meant to be.

You cant rush through this. It takes as long as it does. And you dont want to rush through any of the steps because if you do, they come back around to bite you.

The most important thing is this...begin to believe that this was a journey you were meant to go on. I know that for myself without a single doubt.

I also know that I could have been perfect and it would not have mattered because he was broken. It had, except for the stuff I needed to own, very little to do with me. This was his journey, too.

My job was this...not to cause harm to the relationship my son forged with his dad, to accept what my h felt, and to walk my path with dignity and courage.

You cannot change how she feels. Nor should you want to. That doesnt work in the long run for either of you.

So, feel what you need to and then let those feelings wash over you. That is the way forward.

I thought the part about letting go of who your wife was, was good. And the idea of accepting who she is right now also very important. Its reality and it is hard to accept. Lots of good stuff in this one.

[SteveLW]

I thought the part about letting go of who your wife was, was good. And the idea of accepting who she is right now also very important. Its reality and it is hard to accept. Lots of good stuff in this one.

Yeah, this was a perspective that really helped me in my sitch. I also like to throw in that the person she is now may be who she is from now on. As in the change is permanent and who she was is never coming back. I think a lot of LBSs struggle with that. They sit hoping and waiting their WAS snaps out of it and that the person they knew will come back at some point. I know the woman my W was 10-15-20 years ago is vastly different than the person she is now. It is either accept it or move on.

[BL42]

ScottB,

So I called my STBEx. I told asked her if she felt good about the current direction of our divorce. She asked what I meant. I said I still didn't want to get divorced. She began to cry. She said I caught her off guard. She said life is really hard for her right now and that the last week had been very hard.

Sorry the conversation didn't go as you hoped.

Her dad continues to degrade because of his dementia, her mother has an unknown health ailment which she believes is cancer - she says the doctors don't know what it is - and her mom said that whatever it is she is not going to get treatment, she would just assume die. She said that my son is disrespecting her and she doesn't know what to do about it. She said her family is a mess, her marriage is ending, and she's overwhelmed. She also mentioned the deteriorating relationship with her sister. And so she just cried on the phone.

I tried to use the skills I've been working on. I tried to listen without providing any solutions and empathize. She said she couldn't make any decisions or really talk. I just mirrored back to her that losing her dad and now her mom possibly too had to be unbearable.

Good you listen and validated, instead of fixing/reasoning/trying to convince.

I do believe her mom is just trying to manipulate her and her sister and I'm betting the illness is made up. That woman is nearly a sociopath. She just seems to destroy everyone she gets her claws into.

Could be. My Ex-MIL is very manipulative as well. Bought a house in town not long before BD, helped faciliated W's affair and D, hung out and partied with ExW&OM2 before ExW even moved out. Thing is, as with me, she's part of your W's story/life and you can't change it. So you just need to deal with what you can.

I feel bad, but knowing that she is doing a lot worse than I am, actually in a weird way made me feel better.

LH19 and SteveLW may be right about "unattached love" being the ideal and most healthy state but think it's common to have some angry thoughts about an Ex who betrayed you and take some schadenfreude out of their struggles post-BD/D. I'm there myself right now. I'm guessing it's going to take more time and personal work to get to the "zen" state of loving detachment for our Exs. You were married 15 years and together 22 yet it's been less than a year since she moved out. It's probably normal at this point. Just keep working on yourself and you'll get there.

Also, hearing in her voice that their might be a place to reconcile really made me think about whether or not that would make sense for me and I'm not sure.

Doesn't sound like she was really thinking of reconciling - don't read too much into it.

When I have my kids I'm pretty happy. We have a lot of fun and we're building great memories. Its really low key and low stress. I hired an interior decorator and I'm redoing my house, which is kind of stressful and sad, but also a bit empowering and the kids seem to be kind of excited about it. I was dating some but I'm pulling out of that scene. It just feels like more than I'd like to deal with. There are still good days and bad, but I've learned time with the kids gives me a lot of balance and happiness. The three of us make a good little family.

Glad you're enjoying your time with the kids! I'm making the most of mine, and redoing the house as well! Dating is weird after so long, right? I dipped my toes in after D but not making it a priority.

In talking with the STBEx, I do feel like I've healed a good bit and I've grown a good bit.

Good!

She did not seem healthy or happy at all and really like a complete and utter shell of herself, which had started before we separated , but now seeemed so much worse.

That's her problem now, not yours.

The thing that causes me the most stress is definitely dealing with the attorney's as a part of the divorce, so Monday will be stressful.

It's a soul-sucking process. Hang in there. You'll get some relief to not have to deal with it all once it's done.

AS, please come back more often on this board ! I think your comments are always spot on and full of wisdom.

I second that motion! A lot of good advice from AS, Thornton, R2C, LH, SteveLW, Vapo, and others lately on this thread.

WAS's have a lot going on in their heads. They may seem all calm, cool and collected on the outside but inside there's a storm raging. They are torn, confused, anxious. Sometimes it comes to the surface like you saw here, but almost as soon as it does they will bury it again and resume their facade.

...

Do you know the roller coaster analogy? She's riding a roller coaster with a lot of highs and lows. If you tie yourself to her feelings then you ride it as well. When she's at the peak then you think things are improving and you get your hopes up. Then down her coaster goes crashing back to the reality that she's done and there's no hope and you with it. Your job is to stay off the coaster. You're on solid ground off to the side watching her go up and down and all around. A lot of her feelings, whether good or bad, are temporary. She might dangle the carrot of reconciliation one day and then reel it right back in the next. You want to avoid pinning your own feelings on her swings.

This is a very good read. At least for me, it's helpful to have a better understanding of what's going through WAS minds (deep down, not the happy façade was LBS see). Not that it changes the situation, but makes me feel more normal less crazy relative to my emotions and how I'm handling myself.

[ScottB]

So its been a couple of weeks. The divorce details have all been negotiated. Paperwork is getting drawn up. No further communication with the Ex other than stuff related to the kids.

I had an awesome trip with the kids last week. We went to the beach for 5 days and had a really great time. They really are such a blessing and such great kids.

Work is very busy but I do think its slowly getting better. I bought a kayak two weeks ago but I haven't gotten out on it. I'm continuing to work to get my house redecorated and painted. Right now they are fixing cracks in walls and there is dust everywhere so that's creating a bit of stress but it will be great when its done.

I've been incredibly busy as of late and haven't had much time to myself. I could go for a slow evening or two but it just hasn't gone that way. Anyhow, just wanted to drop a line out here. Have a great weekend!

[Ready2Change]

Nice update!

[Traveler]

Hi Scott, glad to hear your divorce is wrapping up, you had a good week with the kids, and you're learning to kayak. Wish you lived closer! I'm always down for kayaking--ocean, river, or calmer waters. Home maintenance and redecorating can be stressful but also builds you up. Rock on!