Been here before. MLC? WAS? Not sure

[wayfarer]

WSs looooovvvvvveeee a reason to act like they can't trust you. It makes them feel like the moral playing field has leveled out.

Yep!
ExW: sounds like we have a trust issue (referring to me, as if she's not the one having the affair).
Me (thinking): Umm...yeah...for obvious reasons?

My H, when confronted with a 20 page phone bill when it was usually 4-8 pages. The exact same convo....I swear.


Mishka when I have a little more time I'll read through what's been going on recently and drop my 2 cents. I just saw what BL42 wrote and couldn't help myself it made me laugh so hard.

[Michka]

OB....Thats cool! Hope lockdown hasn't been too hard on you... Im slowly going crazy. Im blessed that I have my inlaws coming over each day to support me.

[Michka]

Michka,

He took the kids out to the park and left his computer... so i snooped. I found emails from the OW dated from after our last R talk, it appears they organised to meet up and from what I can understand he ended it with the OW. However it appears from the emails I did read that their relationship was much much more than what he let on. He declared she was his eternal love.... he will miss her...blah blah blah. She also appears to be an absolute drama queen. I printed off copies to keep. I am going to raise this issue with my DB coach but I dont know what to do. Do i leave it? He ended it as I asked. But he never told me and I haven nit bought up the transparency question with him.

Good sign he ended it. Better him secretively meeting up to end it than to jump in bed with her. Based on my It's not uncommon for them

I feel foolish but he always maintained that it was never physical... judging by the tone of the emails and everyone else's experiences on the board Im going to assume it was.

You have more than enough for a divorce lawyer so as far as I'm concerned you need to be done now.

Do you have a lawyer? If not consult with one (or three) NOW. Understand what matters or what doesn't. I did have ample evidence of the affair, but my L quickly let me know it had no bearing what so ever on the D, whether it'd be custody, alimony, or child support. However, IF it does in Australia where you are keep snooping and documenting in case you need it.

Already have one, but those emails about the affair arent relevant. They deal with property settlement and child support.

Continuing to snoop will only hurt you. You may see something you didn't want to see and can't unsee it. You may get caught and all your efforts toward R will be tossed out the window.

It does seem like you have more of a chance to R than most, so maybe it's best to stop snooping. I know it certainly hurt me and set me back every time I did, and if I had be given the chance to R it might've hurt my perspective to R.

Its so hard, I now have a way to contact the OW and its taking all my willpower to NOT contact her. But I wont lie I really really want to.

WSs looooovvvvvveeee a reason to act like they can't trust you. It makes them feel like the moral playing field has leveled out.

Yep!
ExW: sounds like we have a trust issue (referring to me, as if she's not the one having the affair).
Me (thinking): Umm...yeah...for obvious reasons?

Made me laugh!

We were seperated for a few months before they met. Not sure I would classify it as cheating.

You're still married! It's cheating. He can't move out for a bit, test the field, move back and want to work on things, then move out and and date and have it not be cheating. You took vows. He has to honor them or not.

In theory I agree. What kills me is that should he be in my shoes he would have cut me off immediately, shouted it to the hilltops and played the victim to the audience.

Just angry that he clearly lied about the extent of the relationship. He maintained it was merely a friendship that had developed "feelings" yet the emails I read was the about the eternal love he has for her even if they cant be together.

Unfortunately this is common. You'll read it A LOT on this board. Spouses having an affair will lie, lie, lie...only admitting what they've been caught on. My ExW's AP/OM1 was "just a coworker", then they had "been friends for 10 years", then "OK, we had an EA", then "we only kissed"...etc.

Yes so it appears. Still makes me sick. Also makes the whole trust issue so much harder.

To be clear, they both sound loopy, they knew each for four months (this has been confirmed from the emails I read) and her emails made it sound like her one true love was leaving.

Unfortunately again, this is also very common...and "Loopy" is a great word for it.

I really feel like quoting parts of the email..but I wont, they are packed away "just in case". But honestly they made me sick. Sounded like two middle aged adults playing they are Romeo and Juliet.

My ExW & AP/OM1 had only known each other for a few months and yet "they were each others' person", they "would always have a bond", they just dreamt of their marriages being over and having the kids run around in the back yard together...etc. A few months later when the spouses and their employer found it was all over and ExW quickly had the same "loopy" talks with OM2.

It seems crazy to a rationally thinking person, but WAS/WWs can literally turn their back on their their spouses and think the AP is their one and only soul mate after a short period of time, ignoring all realities.

Honestly...part of me wants to reach out to the OW and tell her if she wants my scraps she is welcome to him.

Really worried about the eldest, he has badly regressed in his sleep and is constantly analysing his fathers actions and movements. I have spent the morning calling around to see if I can set up a phone counselling session for him. He is only 8 but has always had such a wise and mature nature with a high EQ. So he is really feeling this.

Sorry. It's so hard to see the impacts on the kids. My S6 has cried many times over the last year, once 45 mins sobbing himself to sleep, but seems to be getting better over time. All you can do is your best for your kids. Be there for them. Be a great mom.

I am really trying to be a mum, dad and everything else. Lockdown feels like it has magnified the emotions in relation to this drama. We are all at home and there isn't the usual distractions of school, friends etc etc. He and his brother are getting on each others nerves. They are getting on my nerves. Just alot of nerves all round

[Michka]

WSs looooovvvvvveeee a reason to act like they can't trust you. It makes them feel like the moral playing field has leveled out.

Yep!
ExW: sounds like we have a trust issue (referring to me, as if she's not the one having the affair).
Me (thinking): Umm...yeah...for obvious reasons?

My H, when confronted with a 20 page phone bill when it was usually 4-8 pages. The exact same convo....I swear.


Mishka when I have a little more time I'll read through what's been going on recently and drop my 2 cents. I just saw what BL42 wrote and couldn't help myself it made me laugh so hard.

It made me laugh too.

I would greatly appreciate your two cents.

[SteveLW]

WSs looooovvvvvveeee a reason to act like they can't trust you. It makes them feel like the moral playing field has leveled out.

Yep!
ExW: sounds like we have a trust issue (referring to me, as if she's not the one having the affair).
Me (thinking): Umm...yeah...for obvious reasons?

My H, when confronted with a 20 page phone bill when it was usually 4-8 pages. The exact same convo....I swear.


Mishka when I have a little more time I'll read through what's been going on recently and drop my 2 cents. I just saw what BL42 wrote and couldn't help myself it made me laugh so hard.

It made me laugh too.

I would greatly appreciate your two cents.

Such a hypocritical tactic by a WAS/WS! I know my W tried the same tact. "You were checking up on me??"

I finally asked her: "What is worse, snooping on someone? Or being guilty of behavior that is inappropriate and found during snooping?" She never accused me of breaching protocol again!

[wayfarer]

Such a hypocritical tactic by a WAS/WS! I know my W tried the same tact. "You were checking up on me??"

I finally asked her: "What is worse, snooping on someone? Or being guilty of behavior that is inappropriate and found during snooping?" She never accused me of breaching protocol again!

When I got that massive bill we weren't home together. I sent him a text and said: "I got a phone bill in a catalog envelop for the first time ever. I think we need to have a serious conversation. You have almost 500 texts between you and what I can only assume is OWs phone number in a 28 day billing period . You're clearly having an EA and I'm done letting you gaslight me into submission over this."
H: I think you're right. It's pretty serious that you're going through the phone bill like that.
Me: What? Are you serious right now? How was I not supposed to look at phone bill that came like Sears catalog? A phone I pay for btw."
H: Oh so now you're going to guilt me because you pay a few bills in the house?
Me: WTF are you talking about? You've tried to make me think I was crazy and insecure and now I see it really is trust issue here. I can't trust or believe you.
H: Yeah you're right we definitely do have a trust issue here.
Me: Are you effing kidding me right now? Whatever. We're talking about this tonight. I'm not doing this with you any more.
H: Yeah I do think we need to discuss some things.
Me: Oh fantastic. So glad we're on the same page. Have a lovely day.

He didn't know that I did have a friend call the number to confirm it was OW. But that was besides the point...lol

[97Hope]

"I got a phone bill in a catalog envelop for the first time ever. I think we need to have a serious conversation. You have almost 500 texts between you and what I can only assume is OWs phone number in a 28 day billing period . You're clearly having an EA and I'm done letting you gaslight me into submission over this."
H: I think you're right. It's pretty serious that you're going through the phone bill like that.
Me: What? Are you serious right now? How was I not supposed to look at phone bill that came like Sears catalog? A phone I pay for btw."
H: Oh so now you're going to guilt me because you pay a few bills in the house?
Me: WTF are you talking about? You've tried to make me think I was crazy and insecure and now I see it really is trust issue here. I can't trust or believe you.
H: Yeah you're right we definitely do have a trust issue here.
Me: Are you effing kidding me right now? Whatever. We're talking about this tonight. I'm not doing this with you any more.
H: Yeah I do think we need to discuss some things.
Me: Oh fantastic. So glad we're on the same page. Have a lovely day.

This is next-level, ninja gaslighting and deflection here! Holy carp!!!

[wayfarer]

97- Oh yeah it was a sh!tshow for months in my house. His entire personality changed. I was blessed with having a crappy childhood with a narcissist step-father so I could see H's BS a mile away. And my default is fight not cry so there were a lot of I guess we call them truth darts, even before I started DBing, because I wasn't going to be manipulated. Go ahead and pretend you're not having an affair, but you're not making me think I'm crazy in the process. When he couldn't win the you're crazy I'm not doing anything wrong fight he turned it into the you always have to be right and that's part of the reason I'm not happy in our MR fight. Which in reality had/has some merit, but in crazy pants land I literally was right the whole time so it was pretty irrelevant.

M- being locked in makes everyone's emotions high, and a WH/WAH is running on the emotional levels of a teenage girl. You're doing a great job of focusing on you and the kids and trying to DB which trust me I know is hard being locked in together. There are just a few things you need to consider. 1) how long are you willing to wait out his waffling. You don't need to decide that right this second, but giving yourself a deadline really helps with dealing with the stress of an IHS. Knowing you have a point at which you will take the future of this MR into your own hands is a kind of light at the end of the tunnel 2) brush up your boundaries. Go read the boundaries thread. Take some time to think about things you're done with. Think about some things that you just don't have the energy to fight over. Make concessions that'll make your life, or your kids' lives easier, even if it seems like you're giving in a little to H's circus. Stand firm on your lines in the sand. 3) See what you can do to help your oldest outside of the professional scope while you wait. Sometimes it's as easy as more hugs or a little more 1 on 1. Sometimes it's way more complicated and they are having big feelings that really only a professional to help both of you manage better is the only option. If he can articulate it and you can relieve some it great. If he can't, you're his mom, you clearly know what's up, you'll get this figured out eventually. And cut yourself and kiddo some slack. Kids get moody. Kids go through weird sleeping and eating phases. It's entirely possible that what's going on has nothing to do with the two of you and this is something short term that is totally unrelated. 4) Keep your sights on detachment. WS/WAS love to try to bring other people on their ride with them. Misery lovvvveeeesss company. The stronger you get the easier it will be to wait out the waffling.

You seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders M. Just keep it up. You're doing great.

[97Hope]

WAH/WH : "running on the emotion level of a teenage girl" THIS!!!!

When we remember this, it helps to look at it from a place of distance.

Hope all of the nerves are doing ok today, M. You've got this!!

[Michka]

Ugh - Need to vent again or potentially get a 2x4...

So something just didn't feel right after reading those emails from the AP. I also kept thinking about how he was accusing me of an affair early on after BD. Also everyone here seemed to have experienced finding the AP was happening for a lot longer/more in depth then originally thought.

I thought the emails originally correlated with the dates he told me, but I then thought he could have been just as easily deleting stuff as he went along?

I know snooping is like revenge, its hurts both parties, but I chose to go ahead to do it because I needed to know. I needed to know the truth and then base my decision off that, not off his feelings/waffling which changes weekly.

So i got access to the phone bills (originally didn't have access because it was a business account but I changed the settings over the phone and the fool I spoke to didn't ask too many questions)

Well it seems my spidey sense was right, he met her last year sometime, the earliest date I can see him contacting her is Dec 22,2020. Thats based on the current phone number i have of the OW. I am making no assumptions that this is the actual date of first contact because who knows if she didn't get a new number or whatever. BD was mid Jan, 2021

So he has been having an affair, lying to me the whole time, even when I would ask point blank during those times he said he wanted to try about the extent of his involvement with her. He always said he never slept with her but I call BS.

Now heres where I may need the 2x4... I want to call her. I want the details, I want to know how long its been, how they met, if they slept together. What her intentions were.


So do I or do I let it all go.