M seems like you are judging your insides by her outsides... apples and oranges ... I get it, I really do, because I've been there and could be there again in a heartbeat.
i know what you mean and intellectually i know, but emotionally it's not sitting right. i know that I have more healing to do.
I kinda feel split open and raw from sharing my sitch. I re-read it and it made me feel like such a weakling - I know that's dumb and macho man BS. I felt like I threw like the biggest pity party and invited all my insecurities and gave them VIP seats to me wallowing in nonsense. I'm not minimizing my feelings, but I didn't think I would be here after all this time. I just got more work to do.
i am not trying to minimize how you feel by saying this, because i also sometimes feel that way after talking to someone or posting something that deeply upsets me too. in my opinion you are absolutely not a weakling, or wallowing in self pity. $h!t happens and it's upsetting, period. Baby you've only just begun. Look at some of us who are still moving forward, still healing, years, and years, and years later. My exh left over 6 years ago. His AP/now wife sent me an email last summer telling me to get over it they've been together for years and years and to eff off. I wasn't communicating with him about our failed relationship. I had emailed him about our son, who was on the precipice of what turned into a life threatening crisis. I have no control over the fact that she is in my son's life. I signed up for creating a family with my exh, not any extraneous people he chooses to bring into our family dynamic. I've chosen to ignore her and focus on my son. I've also chosen to no longer communicate with my exh about anything that happens to our son unless my son specifically asks me to, but he's almost 22 so it's not in my or his face. His dad is 3000 miles away and about to be 6000 miles away soon. It still hurts. Seeing how our failed marriage has affected my son hurts every day. I live with it because I have to make some kind of peace with it or I'll lose my mind. Our divorce was final 12/23/16. I have met two people for coffee. I've yet to go on a date. Some people's journeys take longer than others. Again, if I judge my healing process by anyone else's I'm not doing myself any favors. I guess what I'm trying to say M is give yourself a break and be gentle with yourself because this world is a far from gentle place.
{{{{{{{M}}}}}}}
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Maika, you said something really, really profound in your reply to my post:
Originally Posted by Maika
I think that my wanting her to pick me stems from a total lack of self-worth and self-value. This is a bit of a long story but I've had an auto-immune condition since I was a lil kid and that completely destroyed my self worth and self value over the years - if I say more it'll be easy to figure out my details. That coupled with other family and childhood trauma added fuel to the fire. I never imagined that a woman would ever be interested in me due to my auto-immune condition and that was the case for most of my life. It's a condition that I cannot hide. I had some gfs here and there, but it never felt real to me, that someone would actually want to be with me. So, when exW wanted to be with me and marry me, that felt like out of a dream to me. I never imagined that a woman would find value in me.
I am still stuck in that rut of not thinking that I am worth anything. I am not an unattractive dude. In the past few years I've started slowly developing my senses around a woman being interested in me - something that I had never cultivated growing up since I never thought it would be a possibility. I know that there are women who find me a catch and intellectually I know that I have great value and I know what I bring, but emotionally and mentally I am not there yet.
So, part of what's triggered me here is that I want exW to see that I still have value and I am worthy of her time and attention, just like she did when we got together. And I know it's foolish but I think that's what's been a problem. I don't love her. I love the idea of her wanting me and thinking of me as someone with value.
Do you realize how incredibly self-aware and wise you are? It would take most of us a lifetime to uncover the reasoning behind our reactions and yet you spit that out in a matter of an hour to my question.
And now, based upon your self-aware response, I am going to gently ask you what steps you are taking to detach your self worth from your exW's opinion of you? And an even harder question: did your ex fill some holes of mothering/parenting love that you didn't get enough of as a child? Because until you open that closet of ghosts, you won't be able to fully detach from exW as the root cause may be way, way upstream.
I can't remember if you are in therapy or not, but your wisdom and awareness would make the therapeutic process very productive, is my guess.
I am also going to gently point out to you that you are looking for external validation for inner peace. A sh*t job, a just-OK home, a body that has fallen victim to pandemic languishing can bring us all down, but shouldn't define you. Only you define you. You are making strides here, attempting to get a new job which might allow some upward mobility in your lifestyle, but even if nothing external changes, you are still you. A great dad, a wise voice of reason on this board, I am sure you're a good friend, and you're smart and articulate. You have a lot going for you. Let those things fill you up right now. Because a new job isn't going to save you and a new house with a fancy pool isn't going to save you and a gorgeous GF who loves the heck out of you isn't going to save you. Only you can save you and I think you have the tools for this.
eep in mind you got through initial BD and D and had those aspects of your life strong. It's understandable to have a bit of a backslide, you can and WILL do it again...and it will be easier this time already having gone through it once. You're already crushing it with the kids and starting back on the gym. Remember back to how you built yourself up and do that again. You'll get there one step at a time.
Thanks BL! Yeh, the road has been walked before and now I gotta walk it again. This time I do have supplies with me.
Originally Posted by BL42
It's maddening. It's infuriating. I've had the same experience with my ExW & kids; it's a feeling of completely loss of control over how your children are raised, taught, modeled. Sorry man. Unfortunately there's just nothing we can do about it. Our Exs will do as they please, regardless of what we think or what's in the best interest of the children.
yeah definitely it is maddening and part of it is the loss of control. I knew how to deal with that, and I gotta get back there. We were starting some co-parenting, but now I'm gonna switch it back to parallel parenting, go as dark and NC as possible - not that this will change things, but it will help my sanity.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
i am not trying to minimize how you feel by saying this, because i also sometimes feel that way after talking to someone or posting something that deeply upsets me too. in my opinion you are absolutely not a weakling, or wallowing in self pity. $h!t happens and it's upsetting, period. Baby you've only just begun. Look at some of us who are still moving forward, still healing, years, and years, and years later. My exh left over 6 years ago. His AP/now wife sent me an email last summer telling me to get over it they've been together for years and years and to eff off.
Again, if I judge my healing process by anyone else's I'm not doing myself any favors. I guess what I'm trying to say M is give yourself a break and be gentle with yourself because this world is a far from gentle place.
Thanks for the validation. Sometime breaking down feels like weakness, but I know it's part of the journey. The message from AP definitely stinks and seems unnecessary. You're right the healing journey has it's own timeline and I should just focus on mine rather than comparing myself to anyone else. I went on a horrendous date, which came about by total accident and my stupidity - long story; i shouldn't have gotten myself into that mess. And then the pandemic hit so I didn't venture out and the D wasn't final either so wanted to wait that out. I don't feel ready to date yet at all and just gonna put the focus on myself and the kids - get the house in order basically first.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
I guess what I'm trying to say M is give yourself a break and be gentle with yourself because this world is a far from gentle place.
thanks bttrfly. those are some wise words to live by.
Originally Posted by Sage4
Do you realize how incredibly self-aware and wise you are? It would take most of us a lifetime to uncover the reasoning behind our reactions and yet you spit that out in a matter of an hour to my question.
thanks for the kind words Sage. Yeh I did IC for about a year after BD and it helped me get out the immediate abyss. I think I am going to go back when I can in 2022 - financial issues. I've spent a lot of time sitting with myself to unpack everything and just to gain understanding and so these insights have come after a lot of introspection. I wasn't just dealing with BD, but the traumas of my whole life and so I needed to get to some answers. Partly because BD just was the last straw and everything went out of control. I needed to get some control back and stop freefalling.
Originally Posted by Sage4
And now, based upon your self-aware response, I am going to gently ask you what steps you are taking to detach your self worth from your exW's opinion of you? And an even harder question: did your ex fill some holes of mothering/parenting love that you didn't get enough of as a child? Because until you open that closet of ghosts, you won't be able to fully detach from exW as the root cause may be way, way upstream.
I've really come to understand the importance of action. I always tried to change how I felt and thought, but after hearing from some folks who've gone on hard journeys, I've seen that internal change happens through action, which affects thoughts, which changes feelings. So, for me to detach my self-worth from exW, I need to actually value myself - my health and my aspirations. I need to put consistent action towards those areas so I am affirming myself every day. And that doing these things is important because I am important. If you have any other ideas, I am totally open to suggestions.
exW definitely filled the holes left behind by childhood abandonment and neglect - traumas that exacerbated my already low value from the auto immune condition. I definitely think that I need a professional to help with this area because I don't know how far I can get just by myself. I'm looking forward to MDMA therapy becoming legalized - I'm seeing incredible evidence of how phenomenal the therapeutic process is. I think improving my perceptions of myself will go a long way, just not all the way I think. Again, happy to hear suggestions on this.
Originally Posted by Sage4
I am also going to gently point out to you that you are looking for external validation for inner peace. A sh*t job, a just-OK home, a body that has fallen victim to pandemic languishing can bring us all down, but shouldn't define you. Only you define you. You are making strides here, attempting to get a new job which might allow some upward mobility in your lifestyle, but even if nothing external changes, you are still you.
because a new job isn't going to save you and a new house with a fancy pool isn't going to save you and a gorgeous GF who loves the heck out of you isn't going to save you. Only you can save you and I think you have the tools for this.
you're definitely right. all of this is an inside job. none of the material things will give way to lasting peace and inner happiness. right now a lack of all of that is just clouding my perceptions and amplifying the feelings of failure.
yeah i'm a big proponent of 'no one is coming to save you'. even when you have a loving community and all the help - which is great - but when you lean on that pillow at night, it's just you and your mind and so you have to put in the work.
Appreciate all the thoughtful comments from everyone. I had planned on quitting smoking tomorrow a few weeks back - set my quit date. So, that's gonna be a great step. Every time I feel like crap about my job, I apply for a new job. So, taking action rather than stewing in it.
it was totally unnecessary and clear upon reading the email that she had written it with wine glass in hand.
all about ego with these people. What set her off was that I didn't know she existed. That REALLY p!$$ed her off, but how was I supposed to know she existed? was my kid supposed to tell me?
what the eff ever. good luck she's gonna need it.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Hi Maika. Just wanted to lend my support. I love all of the wisdom and advice that others have shared with you. Please don’t beat yourself up. Imagine if it was your best friend going through the same thing and what you would say to him or her. We are always so much harder on ourselves. We need to be our own best friends.
I did want to add one thing. I, too, have a list that I keep on my phone. However, it isn’t about my XH and all the crappy things he did because I don’t want my focus to be on him. Instead, I have a collection of inspirational quotes focused on what I want for my life and in my future partner (if I am blessed enough to find love again). It reminds me of where I am heading and not where I have been. Maybe it is time to refocus your list and make it less about your XW and more about you? Just a thought.
RE: XW introducing new people to your kids. Yeah…not much you can do, I’m afraid. My advice would be to prepare yourself to hear things you don’t want to hear when your kids come home and work on your game face. They will take their cues from you. Be neutral in your expression and interested in what they say but not too interested. Don’t give them the impression you have any feelings about it otherwise your upset will become their upset. It’s hard, I know, but it is just one of the aspects of divorce that svcks. You don’t get to choose who your kids meet when they aren’t with you. It is what it is. If you do want to work out an agreement about giving each other a heads up, you can always approach your XW about it but make it about improving communication between you and not about controlling what she does.
Sending you lots of love and (((Hugs))). You’ll get through this period of time and back on track. Have faith.
Sorry you’re struggling man we started this journey at the same time. I think this board sometimes does a disservice of not allowing people to move forward. I’m convinced now that LBS are not plan B but are more like plan k. It’s never about the OP. It’s about blowing up the life they had because it was unfulfilling for whatever reason. It’s not some temporary fog. I think that’s the money grab for MWDs book and services.
Have you considered dating it’s been awhile for you? It’s a game changer when you realize that there is a lot of great women out there that really want what you have to offer.
I echo what others have already said. I'm sorry you are going through this tough time. It is so hard to just feel so raw and exposed. You have such amazing insight and seem so very self-aware and that is great. You also give great feedback to many others on this board and I think that is a lovely quality to be able to share experiences with others in a constructive way.
Here's to better days ahead!
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
Thanks for the support and kind words. I love the idea of have a list of positive things, quotes in my phone. I am doing the asap. I need to be more future oriented and have things in there that are my goals and aspirations. I think that will be wonderful for my mindset. Thanks for that suggestion.
LH:
Hey brother! Thanks for chiming in. You're absolutely right that we're not Plan B, but Plan K lol. I was about to get into the dating pool just before the pandemic hit and that delayed all plans. But now I feel like I can do that. The goal is to get my $hit together by December and then enter the dating waters in 2022. still not sure what I want - maybe a long term R, but I probably just want something casual in the beginning to get the mojo back. My friends tell me that I look like a younger version of Jeff Goldblum, so I got that going for me
Dawn:
Appreciate the kind words. I think I went through a few hard days but I feel a whole lot better today. Amazing what a great night's sleep will do to you. I try to share and be helpful in what I can here as I think I got so much out of this community, it is my responsibility to share back and see if I can help anyone.
I feel really good today. I had Goggins in my ears all day and it snapped me out of my funk. It also made me realize that I haven't lost all my emotional and mental gains - I spent a couplea days wallowing, but I am back. I know that there will be some backsliding here and there, but the fact that I am able to go the gym now is a lifesaver - that's ME time and it's the place where I get my sanity back.
Just going to live by the adage of 'have a bias towards action' and keep going at it. I know what I also bring in the professional world is incredible and I'm just going to keep applying to appropriate jobs and keep knocking on the door. I have a phone screen next week for a job and even though I'm not particularly enthused about the position, it is still a positive step. Let's see what the job is like and if it meets what I am looking for.
This community is just one of the best things that I've come across for support. Everyone takes time to give such thoughtful feedback and if we could divulge our real identities and have a yearly reunion somewhere, I'd definitely do it
Taking the recycling out today and cleaning up the place. Got some plants that have spruced up my shabby apartment, so making it more homey. Can't wait to get out of this place to a new apartment with a new job. It's coming. I just gotta persevere.
Yeah just get out there and don’t worry about labeling it. Lots of great available women in your neck of the woods. Go out on some dates and see what happens.
yeah you're right LH. No need for excessive planning about this, just gotta take the plunge and then see how it goes and what happens. i haven't been on OLD since covid so let's see how the scene is looking.
