Saving Pack through D, Pack_19 part V

[Pack_19]

Pack,

Hope this closure brings you peace and ability to move forward. Not what you wanted, but the decision wasn't yours.

Closure remains a fight against myself, but I am getting there. I am working on not seeing myself as a failure and accepting it was never in my hands to begin with. Thanks!

Man, this really resonates. Brought back memories of Sitting far on the other side of the couch and texting OM1 in the same room...etc. Glad we're both in better spots dropping our fear and never standing for this kind of disrespect again.

It sounds obvious now but it is incredible the level of self punishment and downgrading that one can subject himself to in the face of a broken M and the desperation that comes from trying to save it no matter what. I cannot believe I let my children see that aspect of my old self, never again.

I talk to a lot of women who ask me, "what do you want or expect from a woman?". It seems me telling them look I have gone through this, my next choice for a partner is going to be unbelievably good leaves you sounding as a guy who just wants to try multiple women. Nothing wrong with it, I am just saying many W get this perception. Maybe female forum members can help me word this better.

Indeed. Ginger reminds me her D14 calls her mom and does not call OW her mom, even though she's been in her life since she was 1.

This is what we can control.

Don't think I'd broach the topic. If he asks I'd just be straightforward and honest about it without going into details.

Agree with this, let my actions be louder than any words I can talk to them. Let them see what a strong man with values and principles does on a daily basis.

Thank you! ((hugs))

[Pack_19]

Pack you have come a long way. Keep going. The road to greatness doesn't have an end, there is no finish line. So enjoy the journey because that is all any of us has.

I don't think you have to say anything to your son about moving on. Just do it. He will see your actions and how you are showing up in the world. Remember you are an example to him of what a man is, how a man conducts himself. It's a great responsibility (no pressure LOL).

Don't get sidetracked inside your head re your ex bringing OM around the kids. You can't stop it. Accept it will happen. They have one father and that's you my friend. Be the man. There are ways to deal with any negative influences that OM and/or your ex have on the kids. I have some experience with this re my ex. The good people on this board will provide direction if that happens. Unless and until it does, don't worry about. Be a strong and dominant role model and influencer yourself such that others pale in comparison.

Good luck, keep going.

This is going to be one of those posts that I read multiple times until it sinks in my brain, thanks Gekko. I am going to lead an amazing life, teach S9 and S5 all I have learned since I joined this forum when the time comes and I will ensure they want to be close to me without me having to ask. Maybe someday I get a new chance to move abroad, maybe I meet someone here and I settle down, maybe I remain single for years to come... whatever comes I will be able to face it and enjoy it because I am a new man and I am a fantastic father and work in progress in my sexual kung-fu

[DnJ]

Good Morning Pack

Sounds like you are doing really well with your self-improvements and goals. Congrats on running a 5:15 mile.

Nice to read about the new house and how exciting it will be for the kids to see and play with their friends daily. I laughed at the image of bonking into all that living room furniture while wearing the VR helmet. VR is pretty amazing; how that visual and audio input creates our new, albeit temporary, reality.

…GAL, PIES, kids and my values. However, I cannot seem to let go of the things W told me at home in Munich. Things like how unlike that out of all the men out there you are the father of my children or I have analyzed my life and you are the one thing not working. Why do I still let those statements tumble the image I have of myself and the newly found admiration and respect for the man I am?

It does take time and effort to transmute the venomous words one’s once loving spouse says. For me, I had complete trust and faith in my wife, and therefore her words had unfettered access into my belief system. That is why your rational view of self gets skewed or tumbled about.

There are four paths we all walk - physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual. The first two, physical and intellectual, one can directly control - thoughts, actions, and reactions.

Emotions and feelings rise and fall. They are born and live in the non-rational realm of ourselves. And they are fleeting unless reinforced.

Beliefs. Those deeply held values and convictions, motivations for how and why one lives their life as they do, are very slow to change. It takes concerted purposefully effort to shift one’s convictions. That slow to alter is the very reason they make excellent headings for life. Strengthen those beliefs that serve, crafted convictions which you aspire to, and altered or discarded that which does not serve.

All four aspects of ourselves interact and exert influence upon all. Good physical labour influences feelings of happy, productive, sated, fulfillment, and so on. Positive thoughts encourage positive feelings and accompanying actions.

The same way negative begets negative. Feelings of depression lead to depressive thoughts and actions. Which in turn reinforce one’s feelings.

Beliefs are influenced as well, however they are most often more the underlying foundation of one’s life and choices (when followed or listened to, folks in crisis or emotional turmoil being an excellent example of running and hiding away from their value system).

The usual path towards healed and wholeness starts with that which we can control. We rationalize and do act as if. Intellect and physical activity. These directly controllable efforts influence our emotional self. This is the path of grief and loss, finding emotional understanding, acceptance.

The spiritual side, faith, belief, values, whatever one likes to call it, is deep within. You’ve likely hear the wise counsel of “answers will reveal themselves when you are calm”. This is most true. One can hear their deeply-held convictions when they are calm.

Like influencing one’s emotions state, thought and physical action can strengthen, craft, and alter one’s beliefs. It is a slow process. The transmuting of poisonous words for example. Getting to a place where those words have no power of you. We first understand that, then we even feel it, yet something still nags and tugs from within.

Altering a belief or value is a life altering event. After all, convictions are the underpinning of self. They are not fleeting like emotions, and not directly controllable like thoughts. The realization in organizing one’s belief system is actually organizing one’s self. Seeing and understanding the how and why of one’s life. It’s a life long pursuit.

When all four paths are aligned much peace and contentment is found.

…divorced and still fighting my demons and pushing me to live one day at a time, focused on building a wonderful, loving man who follows his principles and acts as a role model to S9 and S5. Crushing my PIES, but still broken inside and in need of good help from this amazing forum.

Fighting begets fighting. I made peace with my demons instead of trying to battle them down. Interesting when you listen and hear what your fear and such is trying to tell you.

I want to ask for help from other single parents. How do you balance your career and the time with the kids?

My four kids were teenagers and adults at bomb drop. Still, I needed to find a new balance.

We have a finite amount of time. There are only so many hours in the day. Therefore prioritize things accordingly.

In my situation I had sole custody, I am inferring you have your kids half time. When the kids are at their Mom’s do more Pack things.

If you have flexibility in your work, schedule those extra hours or career efforts - training, courses, OT, etc. - for time when kids are not in your charge. Your employer may even be able to accommodate. I know for some of my staff who had school pick ups and drop off we allowed modified start and end times to accommodate. A modified work day with the end result still being the same number of hours.

The home life, laundry, meals, cleaning, etc, can be a lot. Allow things to not be perfect. Kids really are ok with it. They truly just want to spend time with you.

I did hire a housekeeper for a few years. That was a nice. One less item on the pile.

It’s like the beliefs from above. You already know (and value) your best times - nerf gun wars and pillow fights. Your job is important. Realize you work to live, not live to work. No one ever lays on their deathbed wishing they worked more for their employer. You need not put your career on hold either, more put it in perspective.

I love my kids and the time and memories from the choices I’ve made. I’m now retired, and I’ll tell you I’ve no regrets prioritizing family before work. That is the overarching view, as obviously there were times when work had to be first.

We all have a finite amount of time to invest. And yes, finding that balance is tricky. Think quality of time over quantity of time.

And if you ever see me doing a 5:15 mile, you best run too; something really big must be chasing me! Lol.

Have a great day.

D

[Ready2Change]

I want to ask for help from other single parents. How do you balance your career and the time with the kids?

I am inferring you have your kids half time. When the kids are at their Mom’s do more Pack things.

If you have flexibility in your work, schedule those extra hours or career efforts - training, courses, OT, etc. - for time when kids are not in your charge. Your employer may even be able to accommodate. I know for some of my staff who had school pick ups and drop off we allowed modified start and end times to accommodate. A modified work day with the end result still being the same number of hours.

The home life, laundry, meals, cleaning, etc, can be a lot. Allow things to not be perfect. Kids really are ok with it. They truly just want to spend time with you.

I did hire a housekeeper for a few years. That was a nice. One less item on the pile.

It’s like the beliefs from above. You already know (and value) your best times - nerf gun wars and pillow fights. Your job is important. Realize you work to live, not live to work. No one ever lays on their deathbed wishing they worked more for their employer. You need not put your career on hold either, more put it in perspective.

I love my kids and the time and memories from the choices I’ve made. I’m now retired, and I’ll tell you I’ve no regrets prioritizing family before work. That is the overarching view, as obviously there were times when work had to be first.

We all have a finite amount of time to invest. And yes, finding that balance is tricky. Think quality of time over quantity of time.

Same advice here. 10 years goes by in a blink of an eye. All my kids are now out of the house. Lots of free time to do whatever I want. You only have a short time with them while they are little... maximize it. Work will always be there, even after they are grown.

Also, include the kids in all the chores. Have a great time while doing each of them. Make the chores fun. Have music going and dance while sorting laundry. Have them involved in grocery shopping and picking out food for the week.

[Pack_19]

Hi DnJ,

Thanks for coming here and posting! The incident with the VR set was so funny, S9 would ask me "dad do you know what you are facing?"and I was saying "look, all I know is I am in bar and I have a big metal table in front of me!"and he burst into laughing.

It does take time and effort to transmute the venomous words one’s once loving spouse says. For me, I had complete trust and faith in my wife, and therefore her words had unfettered access into my belief system. That is why your rational view of self gets skewed or tumbled about.

I always assumed she was the person that knew me best, the one that had access to my rough corners and no matter how bad our M was, not once I considered giving up or seeking fun outside. I have met W since D that have told me I am a great man and have all it takes to make someone the happiest next to me, and yet my brain circles back to those hurtful words she told me over and over at home in Munich. I need to work harder on the source of my perception of myself and the values that guide me.

There are four paths we all walk - physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual. The first two, physical and intellectual, one can directly control - thoughts, actions, and reactions.

Emotions and feelings rise and fall. They are born and live in the non-rational realm of ourselves. And they are fleeting unless reinforced.

Beliefs. Those deeply held values and convictions, motivations for how and why one lives their life as they do, are very slow to change. It takes concerted purposefully effort to shift one’s convictions. That slow to alter is the very reason they make excellent headings for life. Strengthen those beliefs that serve, crafted convictions which you aspire to, and altered or discarded that which does not serve.

All four aspects of ourselves interact and exert influence upon all. Good physical labour influences feelings of happy, productive, sated, fulfillment, and so on. Positive thoughts encourage positive feelings and accompanying actions.

The same way negative begets negative. Feelings of depression lead to depressive thoughts and actions. Which in turn reinforce one’s feelings.

Beliefs are influenced as well, however they are most often more the underlying foundation of one’s life and choices (when followed or listened to, folks in crisis or emotional turmoil being an excellent example of running and hiding away from their value system).

The usual path towards healed and wholeness starts with that which we can control. We rationalize and do act as if. Intellect and physical activity. These directly controllable efforts influence our emotional self. This is the path of grief and loss, finding emotional understanding, acceptance.

The spiritual side, faith, belief, values, whatever one likes to call it, is deep within. You’ve likely hear the wise counsel of “answers will reveal themselves when you are calm”. This is most true. One can hear their deeply-held convictions when they are calm.

Like influencing one’s emotions state, thought and physical action can strengthen, craft, and alter one’s beliefs. It is a slow process. The transmuting of poisonous words for example. Getting to a place where those words have no power of you. We first understand that, then we even feel it, yet something still nags and tugs from within.

Altering a belief or value is a life altering event. After all, convictions are the underpinning of self. They are not fleeting like emotions, and not directly controllable like thoughts. The realization in organizing one’s belief system is actually organizing one’s self. Seeing and understanding the how and why of one’s life. It’s a life long pursuit.

When all four paths are aligned much peace and contentment is found.

I imagine this is the reason why when I could focus back on work, started reading all my great books and poured all my frustration into physical activity, I started seeing things from a different perspective and really building the new man I am now. I feel like I am missing the step when I fully forgive myself for past errors and can find peace in this new life, divorced and co parenting for the next X years.

Here I understand is where is need to make peace with my demons, live with those fears about exW and my future and realize that by living through them I will prove myself that I am much stronger than I believe. Instead of going back to a free or trauma mind, find peace with my post trauma life and the baggage I will carry from now on.

Now when I look at the past 3 years, something tells me my beliefs and core values where in the background always beating, like the heart in Poe's story, however my emotional desperation had blocked them. I would come here and read Steve's comment saying, Pack if your W had been unfaithful in the M, how would you have reacted? and then think, he is so damn right, what are you fighting for you tin-head! Same now with my career, I think a lot about how could it would be to move to the US and build a career in NY or CA but my core immediately brings me back to earth and shouts (not without the kids Pack, nothing will come in between you and them again). What I am trying to say is that the compass guided by my values is still there and I just had forgotten about it. All I need is techniques to overcome those thoughts and set my mind ahead.

I recently watched a great TEDx about overcoming heartbreak and it covered all the things this board provides. Get a life, stop idealizing the R (fog), think about exW flaws, fill up your PIES and recognize that you are emotionally a wreck and will be distracted for a longer period than you expected. I was watching the video and thinking about this forum and how lucky I am I had the drive to come and join this community.

We all have a finite amount of time to invest. And yes, finding that balance is tricky. Think quality of time over quantity of time.

This is great advice, I will continue to work on this. The challenge I face is that when I have all business meetings is the time when S9 needs some support with homework and S5 wants his afternoon snack. I tell myself always, there are 2 kinds of weeks, no kids and give it all at work, kids and accept that I cannot be nowhere as productive. I have learned to live like this. I run often when I dont have the kids, I handle my financial issues, get my haircut and so on those weeks.

It's funny because as a loving strong man, you now the quality time with them is what matters, but you also want to shine at work to be able to offer them a great home, travelling experience, the possibility to study abroad and hobbies to enjoy with you. At least I feel it this way, which is good because is a strong drive I have to perform at work and have a great career. However, I also know by the time I am in my 40s, S9 will be 20 and I guess maybe then I can move again and they will want to come with me, idk, I am just thinking.

This post has really given me fuel to refocus on Pack and my PIES. Clearly the emotional dimension is the one I need to polish the most now. I am on it!

Thanks DnJ

[Pack_19]

Same advice here. 10 years goes by in a blink of an eye. All my kids are now out of the house. Lots of free time to do whatever I want. You only have a short time with them while they are little... maximize it. Work will always be there, even after they are grown.

Also, include the kids in all the chores. Have a great time while doing each of them. Make the chores fun. Have music going and dance while sorting laundry. Have them involved in grocery shopping and picking out food for the week.

Two ideas from here. 1 I need to be more flexible and stop wanting everything to be perfect, just focus on enjoying my time with them. 2, more music and fun activities at home even when doing the chores. I might get a housekeeper when I am done paying the first 20% of the house and the pension to exW.

Last Friday I spent the night at hospital with S9 because he had an asthma crisis. The first time so the doctor made us stay to ensure he was doing well. It was the day I was picking them up so I message exW to tell her how come she had not let me know earlier. She replied that I always acted as if I cared more about our kids and that if I truly cared I would ensure I have a good R with her, their mom.

These messages always hit me hard. I know what I am doing, I don't want any R with her, I talk about the important issues with kids to her and I am going to be a rock after all she has done.

She came to see S9 briefly at night as only one person could stay and then in the morning. When he arrived he sent me a message reading "you are coming out right?", so I left for a quick coffee and let them alone some time. All I could think was I had just spent the night awaken next to S9, making sure he was ok and not scared, holding his hand and then she would just write to me with the same disrespect and apathy she has used since day 1 in our domestic separation. What I am trying to say is that again these experiences hurt me but at least this time I was thinking, this is my future, continue to do father things as my top priority but "alone". It is going to be me and them and it is going to feel strange but I can be very good at this!

That same day later I got a message from exW telling me I had forgotten to send the pension this month. Which, as I told my sister later, it was right but felt like a slap of cold water on my naive face, "hey pack! this is the W you are dealing with now, open your eyes you idiot!. I feel I did a great job as superdad, you guys cannot imagine how I smashed the WOD at crossfit yesterday thinking about it. I was one of the very few to finish it in time with heavy weights.

S9 is much better now, I am taking good care of them and taking them to the beach this week for some holidays we have so that he can stay away from all the pollen in the city.

I feel like I have had 3 past weeks of reverting to bad habits. thinking what W might think of me or might be doing and with whom, questioning if I really am a new and completely different man and thinking I was not focused at work. I will use cross-fit, running and my books as channels to go back to the place I was where kids are 1, pack is 2 and my PIES are 3, and there is nothing more in the horizon for now.

Have you seen the video from Jordan Peterson where he states that D with kids has a high probability of demolishing your life or a big part of it? What do you think about this statement. I think about it a lot, as in thinking I have very challenging conditions in my life and must be good to myself. Deep inside my heart I know I am great at shining in the face of a good challenge!

Thank you all,
((Hugs))
Pack

[SteveLW]

Pack, great post. I think you're killing it in the father department! And I've always liked your PIES. I envy your crushing it at CrossFit too!

Now, while I understand you're sentiment, your exW has a point. My W is the child of a very messy divorce. I've known her since she was in her 20s. I've watched her struggle her whole life because her mom and dad can't stand to be in the same room together. It has made all the events in her life so difficult.

I guess all I'm saying is that you don't have to be best friends with your ex, but for the kids sake you could at least try to get along. Be the bigger person. A lot of my father-in-law's bitterness was over the money he had to pay to my mother-in-law. Don't be that guy.

Just wanted to give you the perspective from a child of divorce's view. Other wise, keep up the awesome work you've been doing.

[Pack_19]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for coming to post. I try to be able to be there next to her but chatting to her, or being friendly just does not come natural. I am not sure if I will ever be able to do it...

Last weekend, S9 had his first communion celebration, I had to stand there next to ExW for the entire ceremony but I made it be all about S9. I was smiling at him, present and elegant as a man can be. But ExW would make funny comments about some gestures or situations and I just nodded along, I cannot do more right now.

In general I think I handled it well, but after the ceremony S9 and S4 went to have lunch with ExW and her family. I had lunch with my parents, sister and brother in law. They stood there telling me that it had been long enough and that I could not feel uncomfortable in that situation but instead treat her as if I had next to me a completely unknown person. I told them I was working on it and that it was still not easy form me because I feel these family events are strange to me. My dad told me I have still the image of an ideal family in my head, and I need to destroy it to move on.

My sister pointed out that ExW has had her lips injected with something (surgery or whatever) and asked me laughing if I had not noticed. I told her something was off but I do not pay attention to that. ExW was always talking about how she wanted to have her nose done and I would always tell her she was prefect as she was. First the tattoos, now this, she is making it easy for me to realize this is an entirely different person. Maybe thinking that the W I married to is dead, helps me move forward.

On the financial side, I know deep inside I have to let it go and treat it as something trivial. It has been so unfair Steve, I have been working for my family flawlessly since I was 22, and now this happens... Never did she thank me or express pride about that.

I will not be that man Steve.

2 more goals for Pack - Improve on your emotional strength, let go of my ideals. Frame the financial situation from the perspective of a happy, new man, who is learning to move on.

Thanks a lot Steve, back to becoming the best man I can be and my PIES.

[Pack_19]

Hi all,

I hope you are all healthy, my heart is always with everyone in this board.

I have not been posting actively but was instead in the background reading golden nuggets from old veterans and the new compilation by R2C (thanks for the work!). I have re-read my entire thread over again and I have read Sandi's original thread, how lucky I was to have her take interest in my sitch. Reading that some young men were taking her first drops of advice as too aggressive made me smile, it reminded me of the day she told me she hoped her posts wouldn't make me leave the forum and all I could think was, your advice is the best thing that could happen to me now. I imagine you have not heard from her, I miss her, I wish I could hug her and thank her in person.

I remain focused on my children, my PIES and building a new life for Pack. I have improved all my PRs in crossfit, I joined a competition in 3 weeks and I am preparing a second marathon. I am working on prioritizing the relationship with friends and relatives that allow me to grow emotionally and I still have that voice in my head helping me validate feelings and active listening on any chance I have. I am reading "Models" again and I just bought "The rational male". I have identified that I am strong in conversation and lifestyle when it comes to attracting high value women, but I need to work on approaching more and accepting rejection as a way to increase the number of women I am exposed to in my life. I also continue practicing my sexual kung-fu.

I have thought a lot about the last advice I got from you all on becoming the man for my kids, a presence so shining that all other models fade in comparison. I can tell they love spending time with me, they are excited about the new house and I am now planning a trip to disneyland paris with them and my sister. This summer I made sure they both took swimming lessons, it truly helped them get better. I am now in my summer break, I spend days with S9 on the padel surf board and yesterday I took him to the gokarts again. I had such a blast, when I am driving is like all else fades away, I am 100% focused on every braking point, every corner, the adrenaline of overtaking someone who is fast, feeling the car move...I have to work on my career and start a business so that I can go racing as a hobby, simple as that. I had a chat with S9 on bed last night, I asked him how he feels about shared custody and he told me he is tired of changing homes and carrying bags. I told him it was only a stage and that it will also be over and I told him all I care about right now is his happiness.

I go on dates occasionally, I can tell all my hard work and learning is paying back, I've had multiple women show strong interest on getting to know me better, even after I open up about the sitch with the kids. I just havent found that person that makes click in my brain at intellectual, emotional and physical level. She is out there somewhere, I just have to keep improving and be more opened to meeting women in places where I am likely to find that incredible person. I cannot wait to continue learning on the dynamics of R and how attraction works.

Some weeks ago I offered exW to have a longer visit with the kids because they had had swimming lessons, she stated she wanted to drop them early so that they would not go to bed late. I replied they were on holidays and it was fine, and got a feeling she had plans. When I picked them up, some random guy was calling her to the phone. I took the kids and said goodbye. 1 or 2 years ago this would have triggered an emotional reaction on me. I felt sad, but I was careful to not express it out and went home thinking I was lucky to have more time with the kids and that I deserve a woman that never phantoms the idea of replacing me how she has. I am moving on slowly, but ALWAYS making progress.

This week will be the 4 year anniversary since BD, I struggle a lot with how much time I have needed to start moving forward on my own. Maybe this is something we never fully recover from, even if as an individual you grow and improve beyond what you could imagine. Here are some ideas I got from reading all the golden nuggets, to keep me going.

1. When you arrive here you are seeking change in your spouse. However the ugly truth is that you are the only person you can change and it takes two willing spouses to R. Thus, your best approach is to come here seeking your own change, saving yourself, as nobody is coming for you and you are not attractive when you hit rock bottom.

2. Finding the DB forum is a tool so powerful it comes with a piece of responsibility. Here you learn about growth books, parenting, boundaries, social proof, attractiveness, gender differences...if you are given all that information, you have the responsibility to use it to improve your life and therefore that of your children.

3. Someone posted on Sandi's thread "I don't care how big of a bump on a log your husband has become, you are his wife. You helped create what he is today." This hit me hard, I believe people can change, maybe many of the issues I see in W were driven by my behavior and vice-versa. Don't judge your S for he/she has become during this suffering time, in all likelihood you were also lacking as an individual by the time you had the b#lls to post here.

4. I have read a lot about forgiveness, the price you pay for it and how you must move on with it. I don't think I could forgive exW for all her despise, accusations, infidelity and the havoc she caused in what I called our family life. I don't say this from a vengeful perspective, it is just a boundary I have to set and stick to. I remember reading how weak a man can look if you set a boundary and let it be stepped on over and over. Time to put Pack first, I will find someone who admires and respects the man I have become.

5. This is how I should have reacted when I was talking about fighting for my M, thinking whether to keep or not my ring on, praying for the chance to communicate with exW about our M and yet knowing there was OM1.
"well, sorry it's come to this, I wish you every happiness, it's been a great so many number of years, give my best to OM, but I'm outta here, like NOW!"

My PIES, guiding me everyday!

P - Improve my PRs in crossfit. Marathon under 3´30". Gain 5 Kg in muscle weight, keep my wardrobe fresh. Chin up and chest out, I should be proud of the new man I have become. Practice my sexual kung fu.
I - Start a company or build a career that allows me to go racing as a hobby. Improve my driving and riding skills. Learn about men and women.
E - Improve my active listen, show empathy, stay humble and work on improving myself as a man and father. Approach more women and start conversations. Take rejection as a positive filter. DETACH and enjoy being single in all that is means. DO NOT CHASE ANY WOMAN
S - Talk to God and be a role model for my kids. Keep growing, keep improving as a man.

Thank you all, sorry it took so long to post again, I see no changes in my sitch and think others could better use the time of our veterans.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Pack

It’s wonderful to read your update. You are indeed doing well, and sincerely investing into you and your kids.

I had a chat with S9 on bed last night, I asked him how he feels about shared custody and he told me he is tired of changing homes and carrying bags.

I can certainly see his point. Can work to minimize the stuff needed for him to lug around. Toothbrush, shampoo, shoes, clothes, jackets, video game, and such at each place would lessen things a bit. Of course, once in a while there would need to be a reset as clothes get mixed around. Yet, one could basically just show up with the clothes on their back.

This week will be the 4 year anniversary since BD, I struggle a lot with how much time I have needed to start moving forward on my own. Maybe this is something we never fully recover from, even if as an individual you grow and improve beyond what you could imagine.

Everyone requires a different amount of time to find their footing and really get moving forward. These last four years were needed for you. Needed and invested into you. And yes, one can improve beyond their imagination. A destiny, I’ve no doubt about for you.

To that, forgiveness:

I have read a lot about forgiveness, the price you pay for it and how you must move on with it. I don't think I could forgive exW for all her despise, accusations, infidelity and the havoc she caused in what I called our family life. I don't say this from a vengeful perspective, it is just a boundary I have to set and stick to. I remember reading how weak a man can look if you set a boundary and let it be stepped on over and over. Time to put Pack first, I will find someone who admires and respects the man I have become.

You are correct, boundaries when made need to be enforced. For people will treat you the way you let them.

When we are first hurting and our emotions are all over the place, it is really difficult to know what and where to place a boundary and how to enforce it. Eventually we become whole and healed, and some of those boundaries become less so.

To be clear, it’s not that we accept disrespectful behaviour, we just more shrug and move on. After all, we can only control ourselves. And with growth, detachment, understanding, empathy, compassion, and forgiveness; behaviours and words which once cut to the bone, no longer sting.

We still have rock solid boundaries, they are just more meshed with who we are, our character, instead of some external idea or thing we turn to in those times. Such strength of character lives in convictions and beliefs and values.

Ah the realm of beliefs. The fourth of life’s paths - physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual.

Each of these paths is separate to the others. We have direct control over two: physical and intellectual. We can control our actions and our reactions. We can control our thoughts.

All paths influence each other and are subject to influence both internal and external. One’s beliefs and convictions can crafts/influence certain thoughts and feelings in a given situation. One can control/do certain tasks to promote healthy emotional well being. One can think positively to influence their deeply held values. It is quite a web.

Beliefs, unlike emotions, are very slow to change. It’s this almost unchanging that makes them excellent life headings; once one organizes their convictions. Strengthen that which serves, craft that which you aspire to, and discard or alter that which doesn’t serve.


“…forgiveness, the price you pay for it and how you must move on with it.”

I do not understand what you mean by the price you must pay. Forgiveness is writing paid in full upon your XW’s invoice.

One finds forgiveness in letting go. Letting go of the need for vengeance, retribution, retaliation, compensation, and so on. The effort to let go is difficult to find, for it is a “muscle” we/society doesn’t often use. However, forgiveness requires far less energies than holding a grudge. In fact, forgiveness requires next to no energy, once you find it. You just live it. You believe it.

Forgiveness is most definitely for you. The cost, price, effort of forgiveness is paid back multi-fold to you! I guarantee it.


“I don't think I could forgive exW for all her despise, accusations, infidelity and the havoc she caused in what I called our family life.”

You can and do control what you think. As long as you think you cannot forgive, you won’t.

Our minds and hearts are always listening, and they will craft our reality as we ask. The first step in crafting is imaging. We have to be open to the possibility, be able to imagine and see, that we can find forgiveness for our ex spouse (or whomever).

Next, forgiveness is not what you likely think it is. My tag line: Love the person, forgive the sin.

Trying to forgive someone, the person, places one upon a higher moral ground. How misguided, deciding who is to be forgiven, who is worthy of such. No one can see all ends. Only God can forgive the soul.

Think good person, who has done bad things.

Love the sinner, forgive the sin.

You don’t forgive XW for all her despise, accusations, infidelity and the havoc she caused; you forgive the despise, accusations, infidelity and the havoc. You forgive the transgressions, directly.

Betrayal is the worst thing one person can do to another. My XW betrayed me, our kids, family, friends, and most of all herself. Yet, she did not grow up in a vacuum. I know some of what she endured during her informative years. I know some of her pains and torments. Yet, I know not all of her suffering. Nor do I see all. Therefore I cannot judge her. One can choose to carry those hurts and betrayals around, or one can let go and work to forgive.

I found forgiveness really early on in my situation. It came during a hellish vivid nightmare of XW suffering eternal damnation. I bolted awake from the utter shock. It was in the wee hours of the night, like 2:00 am, I dropped to my knees beside the bed, right then and there in the dark, and I prayed and begged God to forgive her, for she did not deserve such fate. Oh my goodness, the hubris, me a mere mortal telling God to forgive her.

I realized I wanted no hand in her fate, repercussions, consequences, comeuppance, etc, in this life or the next.

Some incredible things internally shift and take hold with such a viewpoint.

This was months after bomb drop, with every night thus far being a fitful poor sleep. After that night, that epiphany, I’ve slept soundly every single night.

There is a journey, IMHO. Understanding, compassion, empathy, kindness, caring, acceptance, and forgiveness. Not strictly in that order, nor even the entire steps/milestones, just a rough guide. Like how everyone needs a certain amount of understanding before they can/will let go, we need a certain amount of understanding and empathy and compassion before we can/will forgive.

Love the person, forgive the sin.

I do hope you can imagine the peace and contentment that is possible.

Maybe this is something we never fully recover from, even if as an individual you grow and improve beyond what you could imagine.

I think it depends upon one’s definition of recover. We do not go back to how we once were. That naivety is lost (and will also need to be grieved). We can return to a normal state of mental and emotional health and strength. In fact, I think most folks will surpass what they once were.

So do we fully recover? No, we actually get better. We go beyond. We become.

Be better, not bitter.

Have an awesome day Pack.

D