Saving Pack through D, Pack_19 part V

[Pack_19]

Link to previous thread - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2914041&page=1

Hi all! I hope everyone is well and healthy. I just read about Sandi not logging in and, hoping for the best, I just want say how incredibly helpful she has been for me and I am sure others. I literally have a note on my work monitor to remind myself to keep all I have learned here as a compass in my life.

I have been really busy finding a new job, with the house in Germany and gathering documents and information for the D so I took a time away from the forum and my books again. I feel like I am finally understanding the path to my happiness, taking care of myself and my needs and just pouring all the love I have onto my children. I still struggle with what my M and family could have been, but am growing stronger everyday with the goal of becoming the man I am meant to be.

Let´s go point by point. I was very frustrated in my old job, being in Spain, asking for a promotion and only being given the "you need to keep growing" feedback was not easy. So last summer I updated my CV and went job hunting for a remote position. I interviewed with Google and Facebook, some banks and tech companies but eventually it was a process started by a recruiter that has landed me a better job remotely from Spain (yay!) with a US based company. I have a more senior position (still doing machine learning in the cloud), I get more benefits, an amazing base salary and it is not an IT company so the team atmosphere so far it´s been great. I started this month because I was asked to stay in my previous role to finish a customer project I was responsible for, but I can say it has been an improvement in my life and therefore that of my children. Of course when I said I was leaving the previous job, my teammates were surprised and my manager offered me a remote position in Spain but it was too late by then.

I bought that motorbike I kept talking about (next step is the BMW M) and despite I ride very carefully, the feeling of freedom and speed is just amazing even when you are doing 30 mph. I use it to go to the crossfit mostly but again I love it. I completed my first half marathon race last month at 1:37:00 and I am incredibly proud! Now training for a full marathon, still riding the bike, wearing nice clothes, taking care of my hygiene, lifting heavier weights at crossfit and doing my sexual kung fu exercises (LOL). I am mostly focused now on working on Pack emotionally and intellectually. I recently finished Seduction and What Women Want When They Test Men and I am working on my self-esteem, my unalterable terms and building a life according to my principles. The hardest part is working on accepting this is permanent, my new life, my new family, the time I will get with my children and the reality that if I am ever ready to date again, I will need to be sincere and put all the cards on the table regarding my life situation and the importance of my children in my life. But I am not ready yet, I am still saving Pack from this hell and cementing my changes for my new life.

I have now filed for D with my new L. I have filed based on my principles, the time in this open M / limbo and to force me to move on (sadly, I needed this). He has helped me with many things I struggled in the past. Such as imposing I dont have to be there stuck to my phone at 20 pm so that my children talk to W daily on the phone, never to let her make a scene again (as you ALL told me here), protecting myself and replacing child support that she is clearly not spending on them for private tuition at a bilingual school here. I had to collect a lot of documents but the D papers are now sent and we are awaiting response from W and her L.

We sold the house to a lovely couple in Munich! We traveled our separate ways to Munich and met there at the notary. I tried to frame the trip as business but just setting foot there brought me all the memories about how proud I was of the education our kids were getting there, my job and just in general being in a city with so many opportunities and such level of progress. I cried a lot, in the solitude of my hotel room but it was a terrible time. I also went to the bank to ensure I could operate on the benefits from the selling and move the funds to Spain. Once the money finally arrived, and remember I have been solely covering the mortgage since October 2019 when W left home and paying child support as well, I sent my L all the calculations based on the expenses I had covered and sent W her part of the benefits. Of course, she returned the money, claiming that the calculation was unfair and I got a very nice letter from her L accusing me of a crime by moving the money from our shared account in Germany. I lost it for a bit but I have learned by now not to act on my emotional reactions. I calmed down, prepared all proof of bank movements and sent it to my L. When I talked to my L, he told me to sleep well because I had committed no crime and he reassured me he would make the most so that W cannot have nothing more than what is fair. The money is in my bank account now (I refuse to play a tennis game of bank transfers) and I am waiting for action from her L.

Looking back at all the money transfers in 2019 I could really see how idiot I have been when I was emotionally a wreck. W just wanted to get away from me regardless of the pain or destruction and do it asap and I was just there saying "yes go, I will take care of all responsibilities from our shared life, you go and dance and drink with OM at the night club". What a Muppet of a man, thank God he is no more. I am going to show my children what a strong man does, how he is happy, how he treats women and how he guides his life by his principles.

W has not changed a bit, she is all love with the kids but continues to treat me with disrespect and hatred. Our last fight was due to the new school for the kids. I am going to pay everything so I went in search of the best one that fitted my budget. I visited 3 schools and finally made a choice. When I contacted W for her agreement, she replied back that she was unsure about the change now and that I had not involved her in the decision. I talked to my L and he said there was no reason for W to reject a new private bilingual school starting next course. Not only she won't help, but now she has decided to be a constant obstacle in anything I try to do wrt the children. BTW, I talked to S8 and he all in for the new school were he can have native English speakers as teachers. I am not sure how to proceed here, whether via my L or try to reason with W.

I always have in my head that sentence on short term inconvenience for long term happiness. I am still very broken inside, so I wanted to come back to continue to improve and learn from you all and to ask for help in saving me through the D. I never wanted this, I was convinced it would never be me the one filing, I wanted to reunite my family and give my children the love and stability they deserve but W´s priorities are just out of sync with mine now. I want to learn here how to be a strong man and how to parent my children through the D. As time passes, I am also learning to see where I failed as a man and H and where I was a rock star, because in some aspects I was.I still struggle with the idea that my M is dead, and it has been dead for a long time and my W is the person I see in front of me now, not the one I had imagined in my head.

My updated PIES:

P - Prepare that marathon, continue to ride the bike and improve my best marks on crossfit. Continue to eat healthy and limiting the amount of alcohol. Practice the sexual kung-fu exercises and dress well.
I - Grow to become a team leader in the new job, continue to read about men and woman and exercise and diet. Get the car I always wanted.
E - Listening actively to anyone I can, focusing on the things I have and finding happiness in building the best possible R with my children. Regaining self esteem and confidence in front of women and learning to be happy alone. Forgiving myself for all my DB mistakes, but never letting them happen again. Detach from W and M.
S - Knowing Pack better, understanding my values and priorities and living with them and learning to like and care for these. Accept I cannot control my way out of this.

Thank you all, please keep posting. I am looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

[SteveLW]

Pack, it is awesome to hear from you and hear you are doing so well. Keep up the great work, keep moving forward, keep being the best you can be! You've got this.

I share your concern on sandi. Miss her and her insights. I feel the contributions she made to the site and to LBHs in particular were invaluable! She was by far the shining light on this board due to her perspective of being a former WW/WAW. I pray that she is well and just busy with life right now.

Pack19, now that have come through the other side. Any thoughts you could give to LBSs that are struggling the way you were 2 years ago?

[Traveler]

Pack, wow, I'm impressed to see you finally move forward. This is a fantastic update and it sounds like you are finally living your life for yourself and your kids. I second Steve's question!

Any thoughts you could give to LBSs that are struggling the way you were 2 years ago?

[Pack_19]

Hi Steve!

Thanks for the reply.

I am not having a good day. My dear W sued me for dividing the winnings from the house selling in my account. I went to see my L, he says this was unnecessary, says a lot about W and her L and has reassured me since we are not D yet, there is no crime and we will prepare an adequate response in time.

I asked L to check if W will allow me to register the kids in the bilingual school starting next course and the answer from W´s L was that she has already replied to me (referring to that email where she said I had not involved her and she was not sure about the change). My blood is boiling today, I cannot improve my children´s school and I am not sure if I can refuse to register them again in the same school. I need her approval to change them, even if I will cover all expenses, but my denial in the current school is worth nothing. I am paying the consequences now of my past mistakes...

I dont think I am entirely in the other side, but here is my best shot Steve.

This forum is full of truth, truth you wont like and/or will not want to hear. I made decisions that have affected my life and those of my children when W was emotionally abusing me and threatening me. I was not a man and I let her do and say things I would not tolerate now. Sandi´s advice is gold, she was always talking about COMMANDING respect via actions. That is what you need to do, the beginning is a fight against your instincts, but you need you win this war, a long war. So let the lion/lioness in you come out, be selfish, take care of your needs, get to know yourself, make yourself happy (no interaction with S, it is not the time) and in the solitude of your bed take a deep look into yourself, where can this lion/lioness improve? Cover all PIES, physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual. Accept your life will be under construction for a long time, you will be easily distracted by your emotions, you will be less productive, you will be vulnerable (if you were like me a big pillar of your life just collapsed, be kind to yourself).

ONLY trust the advice from those who really love you (siblings, best friends, and your IC, because if you can you should go to IC) and before making any decisions do not be afraid to come here, share it and be vulnerable. People here have lived the same and will guide you in an attempt to avoid those mistakes. But you will make those mistakes, sadly, it is the best way to learn.

If you have kids, make them number 1 in your life, pour love into them. Make new memories, take them to new places, hug and kiss them 20 times a day if you can, fill your love tank via your children, it is the most fulfilling thing you will ever do.

You think D bomb was the worst ever? Lean back, you are about to experience pain, doubt, fear and loneliness to levels you could never imagine. But this trial will make you better, it will teach you in months things most people never learn or take years to learn. Use all this hurt as fuel to bring out the best version of you that you can be and make that your one and only goal. It is time to change, if you are here, there are things to change.

how has my life changed?
- I have learned massively about R dynamics, my friends admire me in that sense and love my advice when dealing with W.
- My children love and respect me, they seek to share with me all they do, hug and kiss me regularly and admire how dad has a great job, exercises a lot and is a massive car freak.
- I have met women since I filed for D. When you learn to identify love languages, listen actively, show principles and affection, the right women come to you. Those who show red flags lost any chances with a wonderful man. Sorry, maybe I am too harsh here, but nobody will ever hurt me how W did. Now I can identify who truly respects, admires and loves me.
- I run, I run a lot and buy great shoes to compete, I just bought my first motorbike and I am about to buy the car I always wanted when living in Munich (for you it could be traveling, brewing beer, collecting watches...). I took up crossfit and changed my diet and clothes, I have never looked this good and manly.
- I have a clear picture of the man I want to be and use it and my principles as the compass to guide my life decisions.
- I have accepted I made many mistakes, but it was not my fault that W left me in a different country, went partying and there were multiple OMs. I cannot be ashamed as a man for that. I wanted to have a perfect family with the wrong woman, someday I will find the right one, but there is no rush, because my life right now is simply amazing.

Keep working on yourself, come and post here, dont let your S get the worst of you and commit to GAL, commit to changes, commit to saving yourself as an individual and the happiness of your children if there are.

((hugs)) Pack

[Pack_19]

And get a good L, the best you can afford, it will be the best investment you ever made!

p.s. For me, I took the golden nuggets from this forum and made them into an audio. I still listen to it regularly. It has helped every concept sink down in my brain.

I once met a woman who asked me, "wow, you have very high expectations from women, you will end up alone, don't you fear it?" I replied, "I have high expectations AND strong boundaries, because I am a strong, loving and fun man, and I deserve such a woman".

She ended up asking me out several times.

I have always said this place saved my integrity and sanity. I dont think I will ever leave it, that´s how thankful I am.

((hugs)), Pack

[SteveLW]

Great stuff here, Pack! When I get a second I am going add this to R2C's thread.

[Pack_19]

hi all!

First I want to wish you all a happy new year! I hope holidays were great with your loved ones. I have seen this section full of new names and that saddens me deeply. Yes you learn and develop incredibly with the support of the board but no one should go through the sleepless nights, tears, burning frustration and jealousy on your chest and all other feelings that come with D. I will try to help newcomers now that I feel I have gained perspective over my sitch.

I have been away mostly due to the new job. I lead now a small team and many things need to change in the organization, I have the feeling I need to prove myself so I am working long hours and using the rest to enjoy time with my children and keeping up my exercise routine. But I miss the support and help this board always brings me so here I am! Ready to share and get support.

As I did the previous year, Christmas holidays have all been about the children. I focused on decorating the house, finding terrific presents for them (I can proudly say I did ), watching new series or playing new games with them, showing them how much I love them and how they are number 1 in my life. I am focused on Pack, my PIES and working on accepting that my M is worst than over and I am alone in my new life. I work hard, I exercise a lot, I see my friends and share terrific moments, I try to be the best father I can be, I listen actively as much as I can, I read a lot (recently finished Models and Boundaries in Marriage), I am working on getting to know me better... but I do all of this with a grief/sad feeling that I lost all I had built my life on and was never given a chance to make it work for good with all the new lessons I have now. What I mean is that I still struggle with the idea that I need to reset my life and that it is the only way ahead. I use the time that has passed, the things W has done and the new love and respect I feel for Pack to reinforce the idea that a life without W and M and a new horizon for Pack is the only way ahead.

There are things that hurt me to levels I cannot understand. For example, the other day S8 and S3 were at school for the representation of a living nativity (Belen). S8 was dressed as a shepherd and S3 was a little angel. I paused work to go see the during the only hour we could as parents, while queuing to get in I saw W arrive. We exchanged not a word, and she was literally 2 spaces behind me in the row. I walked in and went straight to see S8. I made some jokes, took pictures, hugged him, asked him about the setup and I told him mom was there. She arrived so I went to see S3 and same story. She took some pictures I asked her to share and she never did and left earlier. I managed to remain focused on my children but my brain was shouting "who is this woman? do you really have kids with her?" These situations feel so weird for me and they hurt so much I cannot understand it. Maybe you can help me with your experience. Any comments and suggestions on how to handle these new situations will help me.

I took some time this morning to re-read my last 3 threads and I can say you learn to understand messages or receive them in a different light when time has passed. I also see some of my earlier messages and think I was a mess and you all had to put up with some needy, desperate and almost irrational messages and reactions from my side. thanks for having been there for me. I specially love reading the early messages from Sandi, LH or Ben. Messages I wasnt prepared to receive and know I can properly store in my head and heart.

The other day I met a woman I really like in crossfit. I talked briefly to her and some days latter added her to IG. When I tried to message her there she blocked me, which left me shocked and brought back all the ghosts of Pack having issues with pressure and pursuit. The next session I approached her and told her I had added her to speak after we met in the box and that I was sorry if it had been intrusive. She said she wasnt sure who that was and she was sorry. I told her just chatting in person would have been a much better idea and said goodbye. Since then I have been doing my thing and thinking well she clearly wasnt the one and I can feel her paying attention to me when we coincide in the same sessions in the box. Why am I telling this story? In the same way that I monitored my active listening like a maniac, I now monitor my pressure, pursuit and the level of interest in a woman like a worse maniac. I am never going back to the ugly rock bottom I hit with W.

I love the new Pack, I love how crossfit is changing my body, how running allows me to be part of sport competitions, how I prioritize having a nice bike and car now that I can afford it, how I have improved my communication skills and I am not scared to express my feelings or ask questions, how I am learning my weaknesses, using my hard work to achieve personal goals in life, how he parents S3 and S8 in a way that they know daddy is loving and caring but also the strongest authority for them, how I have found new value in conversations with strangers, how I understand women better, how I refine and admire my values and principles, how much I talk when I am happy and how I need to go alone for a run when I am troubled, how I can go out for dinner alone or join a group of new friends if they invite me, how I stopped being a nice guy and how I can enforce boundaries with the people that hurt me or do things I do not want to have in my life, how I wake up every day with a desire to improve and grow as a man, how I have developed a sixth sense to read who truly loves me and cares about me and how I am learning to be happy and complete ALONE.

I am working on making Pack's worth come from my perception and development as a man, and not from all the accusations from my W. But I still go to sleep many nights thinking about Munich and my life there and wondering if the last words I will get from W are "I made a firm decision and I have said to you all I had to say about our M". There are so many things that will stay unsaid, I wanted to fix things and talk these but I guess I was late. Now I simply dont want to be vulnerable in front of the woman she is, I want to be solid rock, unmovable, unbreakable, unshakeable.

Thank you all for your support and help!

((hugs))
Pack

[LH19]

I am focused on Pack, my PIES and working on accepting that my M is worst than over and I am alone in my new life.

You are not alone. You have your children, family and friends.

I work hard, I exercise a lot, I see my friends and share terrific moments, I try to be the best father I can be, I listen actively as much as I can, I read a lot (recently finished Models and Boundaries in Marriage), I am working on getting to know me better... but I do all of this with a grief/sad feeling that I lost all I had built my life on and was never given a chance to make it work for good with all the new lessons I have now.

The changes have to be for you Pack. You will get there.

What I mean is that I still struggle with the idea that I need to reset my life and that it is the only way ahead. I use the time that has passed, the things W has done and the new love and respect I feel for Pack to reinforce the idea that a life without W and M and a new horizon for Pack is the only way ahead.

Exactly! Time to move forward.

There are things that hurt me to levels I cannot understand. For example, the other day S8 and S3 were at school for the representation of a living nativity (Belen). S8 was dressed as a shepherd and S3 was a little angel. I paused work to go see the during the only hour we could as parents, while queuing to get in I saw W arrive. We exchanged not a word, and she was literally 2 spaces behind me in the row. I walked in and went straight to see S8. I made some jokes, took pictures, hugged him, asked him about the setup and I told him mom was there. She arrived so I went to see S3 and same story. She took some pictures I asked her to share and she never did and left earlier. I managed to remain focused on my children but my brain was shouting "who is this woman? do you really have kids with her?" These situations feel so weird for me and they hurt so much I cannot understand it. Maybe you can help me with your experience. Any comments and suggestions on how to handle these new situations will help me.

So you have to decide what kind of relationship you want to have with her. You can't go NC and then show up and joke and play around with her and expect her to reciprocate. If you are NC when you see her say "hi" and smile. Maybe discuss kids. That's it.

I specially love reading the early messages from Sandi, LH or Ben. Messages I wasnt prepared to receive and know I can properly store in my head and heart.

It is really hard in the beginning to understand that your current marriage id dead in the water.

The other day I met a woman I really like in crossfit. I talked briefly to her and some days latter added her to IG. When I tried to message her there she blocked me, which left me shocked and brought back all the ghosts of Pack having issues with pressure and pursuit.

What did you message her.?

Since then I have been doing my thing and thinking well she clearly wasnt the one and I can feel her paying attention to me when we coincide in the same sessions in the box.

Well talk to her but keep the convo light.

I love the new Pack, I love how crossfit is changing my body, how running allows me to be part of sport competitions, how I prioritize having a nice bike and car now that I can afford it, how I have improved my communication skills and I am not scared to express my feelings or ask questions, how I am learning my weaknesses, using my hard work to achieve personal goals in life, how he parents S3 and S8 in a way that they know daddy is loving and caring but also the strongest authority for them, how I have found new value in conversations with strangers, how I understand women better, how I refine and admire my values and principles, how much I talk when I am happy and how I need to go alone for a run when I am troubled, how I can go out for dinner alone or join a group of new friends if they invite me, how I stopped being a nice guy and how I can enforce boundaries with the people that hurt me or do things I do not want to have in my life, how I wake up every day with a desire to improve and grow as a man, how I have developed a sixth sense to read who truly loves me and cares about me and how I am learning to be happy and complete ALONE.
You GAL better then anyone I know.
[quote=Pack_19] But I still go to sleep many nights thinking about Munich and my life there and wondering if the last words I will get from W are "I made a firm decision and I have said to you all I had to say about our M".

Nah. You guys have young kids together. You will be intermixing lives for a really long time.

There are so many things that will stay unsaid, I wanted to fix things and talk these but I guess I was late.

It's too late for now. That may change down the road.

Now I simply dont want to be vulnerable in front of the woman she is, I want to be solid rock, unmovable, unbreakable, unshakeable.

Then do it!

[SteveLW]

Pack, love it! Keep up the great work. Really good stuff here. Even your struggles are normal, and you seem to be handling them really well.

I am not a social media guy, so I don't know what the protocols are for adding someone to social media. Was it too soon? IDK. Seems like most people nowadays are very quick to ask for a person's social media accounts, like we asked for phone numbers back in my time! So I don't think that was out of line. I think you handled it well, confronted it and moved on. Did she unblock you after she found out who it was? If not, that is your answer. You tried, she wasn't interested, move on! Life is too short.

But man you are in such a strong place, it is wonderful to see the improvement in someone. This board is often quoted saying that if you DB you will be successful, even if you don't save your marriage. And you are the embodiment of that!

Obviously, I have no life experience to share with you related to coparenting and dealing with your Ex. Just keep doing you!

[BL42]

Pack_19,

Good to hear an update. I actually went back and read through your entire stich last night.

Hope this doesn't come across as insulting or critical, but you majorly struggled with detachment and avoiding pressure/pursuit. I mean epically. For at least a year and a half despite many vets on the board telling you not to, you pursued relentlessly (asking for lunches, asking for walks, so many R conversations, emails...etc.). I can't count the number of times you said "Alright, time to start Last Resort Technique (LRT) or No Contact (NC)" only to reach out a few days later. It's not something you can just turn on and off! I only bring that up to say I see a significant improvement in this area now. I bet if you went back and read through your sitch start to present, it would be clear to you how much progress you've made in the area.

As bad as you were in the detachment & no pressure/pursuit, you really excelled at pouring your emotions into physical activity and transforming your physique and style. With all the running, biking, and cross fit over the past two years I bet you're a physical specimen and feel great about that! Love all the self-help and relationship resources you read as well.

I was very frustrated in my old job, being in Spain, asking for a promotion and only being given the "you need to keep growing" feedback was not easy. So last summer I updated my CV and went job hunting for a remote position. I interviewed with Google and Facebook, some banks and tech companies but eventually it was a process started by a recruiter that has landed me a better job remotely from Spain (yay!) with a US based company. I have a more senior position (still doing machine learning in the cloud), I get more benefits, an amazing base salary and it is not an IT company so the team atmosphere so far it´s been great. I started this month because I was asked to stay in my previous role to finish a customer project I was responsible for, but I can say it has been an improvement in my life and therefore that of my children. Of course when I said I was leaving the previous job, my teammates were surprised and my manager offered me a remote position in Spain but it was too late by then.

Congrats on the new job! Good for you for understanding your worth and needs and exploring other options.

Interesting reaction from the old company. You had been asking for promotions and flexibility on working remote due to your personal situation and they weren't willing to accommodate your needs...until you found something new and then they tried to cater to you but it was too late in your mind. Your old company reminds me of an LBS in a way. Just a thought.

I have now filed for D with my new L.

Good for you. I'm generally against D and think married couples should work through their issues, but as been stated on this board ad nauseum marriage takes two willing parties and your W is clearly not willing. You can rest easy knowing you fought for your marriage for two years despite repeated infidelity, disrespect, rejection and hatred from your W. Time to take a stand for yourself, let go, and move on.

We sold the house to a lovely couple in Munich!

Good news! Glad you can put that item behind you.

When I talked to my L, he told me to sleep well because I had committed no crime and he reassured me he would make the most so that W cannot have nothing more than what is fair. The money is in my bank account now (I refuse to play a tennis game of bank transfers) and I am waiting for action from her L.

I am still very broken inside, so I wanted to come back to continue to improve and learn from you all and to ask for help in saving me through the D.

You're stronger than you know. You'll get through this.

I never wanted this, I was convinced it would never be me the one filing, I wanted to reunite my family and give my children the love and stability they deserve but W´s priorities are just out of sync with mine now.

You're not responsible for the D. You may not have been a perfect husband, but can rest assured you stood for your marriage. You just can't control your wife...this is her path.

I want to learn here how to be a strong man and how to parent my children through the D.
Great goal! I've no doubt you'll make it happen.

[quote=Pack_19]I will try to help newcomers now that I feel I have gained perspective over my sitch.

This is great. We need more folks commenting and helping others here.

There are things that hurt me to levels I cannot understand. For example, the other day S8 and S3 were at school for the representation of a living nativity (Belen). ...I saw W arrive. We exchanged not a word, and she was literally 2 spaces behind me in the row....I managed to remain focused on my children but my brain was shouting "who is this woman? do you really have kids with her?" These situations feel so weird for me and they hurt so much I cannot understand it. Maybe you can help me with your experience. Any comments and suggestions on how to handle these new situations will help me.

Agreed, it's weird and awkward. I wrote about an awkward situation after my S6's parent/teacher conference. But I think it'll get easier over time.

I also see some of my earlier messages and think I was a mess and you all had to put up with some needy, desperate and almost irrational messages and reactions from my side.

That's alright. Almost all of us struggled. Just keep learning from it and improving going forward.

I'm glad to hear you got a new job, sold the Munich house, filed for D and are moving on. You've made so much progress on your PIES, especially physical, and you're sounding much stronger emotionally and form a detachment/no pursuit perspective.

Your most recent posts show growth and I think you're doing great. Keep it up! We're all rooting for you!